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Old 02-10-2009, 11:14
whackyracer
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Hello,

I have a 3G 16gb iphone. The wi-fi no longer works on it, and hasn't done for a good few months, despite trying numerous fixes for it. I've got fed up of it now, so i've booked a genius appointment at the apple store to sort it out. A couple of problems though 1)the phone is about 6 months out of warranty, i guess they may try this to fob me off, but under the sale of goods act i think i would still have a case as the product is not fit for purpose...no? 2)it seems from the apple forums i have looked at, is that it is a well documented problem that apple fail to 'officially' acknowledge and there is no known fix for it. So what are they likely to say to me if they can't fix it?

Thanks for your help!
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Old 02-10-2009, 11:41
sla_steve
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if they dont officially acknowledge it as a common problem the sale of goods act doenst come into play once outside warranty. According to last weeks watchdog anyway!
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Old 02-10-2009, 11:50
simon69c
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In this context the Sale of Goods act basically protects against defects in manufacture and/or design. If the wifi has stopped working after just 18 months then I would say you would have a strong case for there having been a fault in the manufacture - the fact that the warranty only lasts 12 months is largely irrelevent when the SOGA is concerned. I think the only way they would could justifiably wiggle out of it was if they could show the wifi had stopped working due to misuse - and I can't see how that could have happened really!

I'd see what they say first though - in my experience the Apple Store staff are very helpful so they may be willing to simply exchange it for a new one, or you never know - they may actually be able to work out why it isn't working and fix it. Only if they point blank refuse to do anything about it due to being out of warranty would I start bringing up sale of goods act etc.
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Old 02-10-2009, 11:53
Inkblot
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Assuming it was bought from the Apple Store rather than another retailer, your best bet is to discuss it with them as calmly and positively as you can and if they acknowledge that it's a genuine defect and beyond repair they should replace it. My son had his iPhone replaced, admittedly less than a year from purchase, but it had a recognised fault. Whereas another customer in the store at the time was refused a replacement because they claimed they could see water damage.

If you did buy it from them and they refuse to replace it, or to offer a satisfactory alternative, just politely leave and take legal advice from Citizens' Advice and/or Trading Standards. But let's hope it doesn't get that far. Good luck.
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Old 02-10-2009, 12:12
myromeo
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when you say it is out of warranty do you mean its about 18 month old?

did you buy it on contract? How long was the contract? I ask because whilst apple warranty is 12 months O2 will honor any warranty claim after that but before the end of your contract term.
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Old 02-10-2009, 12:12
chrisjr
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if they dont officially acknowledge it as a common problem the sale of goods act doenst come into play once outside warranty. According to last weeks watchdog anyway!
Not quite true.

The Sale Of Goods Act applies if the fault is inherent, ie due to design or manufacturing defect. It is completely and totally irrelevant whether the makers acknowledge the fault or not.

However after six months from the date of purchase the onus is on the customer to prove the fault is inherent or not.. Prior to six months it is the retailer who has to prove it isn't (not the manufacturer you notice!)

All a warranty really does is extended the six months when it's the retailer who has to prove it isn't faulty. it does not nor can it remove or amend your rights under the law.

http://www.berr.gov.uk/whatwedo/cons...page38311.html
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Old 02-10-2009, 12:50
sla_steve
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Not quite true.

The Sale Of Goods Act applies if the fault is inherent, ie due to design or manufacturing defect. It is completely and totally irrelevant whether the makers acknowledge the fault or not.

However after six months from the date of purchase the onus is on the customer to prove the fault is inherent or not.. Prior to six months it is the retailer who has to prove it isn't (not the manufacturer you notice!)

All a warranty really does is extended the six months when it's the retailer who has to prove it isn't faulty. it does not nor can it remove or amend your rights under the law.

http://www.berr.gov.uk/whatwedo/cons...page38311.html
thanks for the correction
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Old 02-10-2009, 13:12
chrisjr
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thanks for the correction
The point is that it's not that the SoGA doesn't apply if the manufacturer denies the fault is anything to do with them but more the fact that you may have a more difficult job proving it.

I think this shift at six months from maker to owner is a bit unfair. How is the average consumer really going to prove that something like an iPhone has an inherent manufacturing or design flaw that stops it working many moths after first purchase? Must be a bit easier to prove shoddy workmanship in a pair of shoes say than something as complex as the iPhone?

OK it makes it easier if there is evidence that loads of other users of the same bit of kit have identical problems. But it is surely easier for the average consumer to prove they looked after the unit properly and followed the manufacturers instructions correctly than it is to prove Apple cocked up and introduced an iffy line of code in the OS of the device!
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Old 02-10-2009, 14:01
whackyracer
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Thank you for all your replies, they've been really helpful. It was a gift on pay and go if that makes any difference to anything, though I can't see it does.

it's not that i especially want a replacement phone, just as long as they can fix it.
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Old 02-10-2009, 14:07
tellytart1
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Not sure how you calculate it's around 6 months out of warranty! The 3G became available in mid-July 2008, so it can only be a maximum of 2.5 months outside the 12 month warranty, which may make arguing for a replacement easier.
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Old 02-10-2009, 14:12
whackyracer
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Not sure how you calculate it's around 6 months out of warranty! The 3G became available in mid-July 2008, so it can only be a maximum of 2.5 months outside the 12 month warranty, which may make arguing for a replacement easier.
was it, oops

well yes, thanks for that info, that will make it easier for me! that's why i love this forum!
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Old 02-10-2009, 16:12
Inkblot
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was it, oops

well yes, thanks for that info, that will make it easier for me! that's why i love this forum!
Apple will be able to tell the date-of-purchase anyway. I took a faulty iPod into the store and the guy plugged it into his computer and told me the date-of-purchase - I didn't have any paperwork with me.
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Old 02-10-2009, 16:27
whackyracer
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Apple will be able to tell the date-of-purchase anyway. I took a faulty iPod into the store and the guy plugged it into his computer and told me the date-of-purchase - I didn't have any paperwork with me.
Even better! I don't have any receipts or anything as it was a gift...i just hope they can fix it!
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Old 02-10-2009, 19:49
kiellliam
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Even better! I don't have any receipts or anything as it was a gift...i just hope they can fix it!
Inkblot correct any product sold by Apple is tracked by them for warranties so there no need for paperwork.

They will fix the issue but at a cost, unless it a worldwide problem
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Old 25-10-2009, 19:36
whackyracer
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Inkblot correct any product sold by Apple is tracked by them for warranties so there no need for paperwork.

They will fix the issue but at a cost, unless it a worldwide problem
I'm afraid you are wrong on both counts. He plugged it in and couldn't find any info regarding when it was sold, he therefore just carried on as if it was in warranty.

After updating the software and still failing to resolve the problem, he just did a straight swap for a new phone, all of which took about 10 minutes and didn't cost me a single penny! So in short, i'm well chuffed!
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