Plain facts? Let's see what you said:

'Ricky is so dull' - your opinion, not fact.

'Excessive praise of Ricky' - Didn't notice that

'Not one interesting thing has been said' - I found lots of interesting things said. Again opinion not fact.

'Absurd over praise of Zoe' again your opinion. Zoe is good - she deserves praise (IMO) - didn't think it was excessive.

I find Marian Keyes interesting - just because you don't doesn't mean that she isn't.

And what has poor Natalie done to incure your disdain?

Yes, many things in my post were plain facts. For example, everything I put in quotes was actually said. As was everything else I said that people said.

Yet you didn't agree with even one word in my post.


A very selective list. Why did you leave out the rest of my post?

She reminds me of Katherine Heigl.

Mama - I jut cannot believe that yet again we disagree!

I too found Ricky dull - but readily acknowledge that it's opinion, not fact.

Why his obsession with Alesha's opinion - she's not the only judge; indeed she is the least experienced and/or knowledgeable of the judges.

Zoe is good, but seems to be a professional moaner. If she's not whining about the difficulty of the dance (before putting in an above average performance), she's agonising about the possibility of the dance off. Get a grip girl - SCD should be fun.

We do agree on Nat. Much to my surprise I find her enthusiasm infectious.

Totally agree with what you say, mamaboogie - and with what buddy b said earlier in response to veri's post.

Veri, I'll add the following comments on your earlier post. You have quoted some comments made by participants on ITT, adding your own interpretation of them. I disagree with your interpretation:

- you said: "Natalie plays the "people at home" card. And the faffing "journey" card." IMO, although Natalie may have used the words you quote, it is your interpretation that she was 'playing a card'.

- you said: "It's "harder for the men" card played". Again, it's your interpretation that the speakers were 'playing a card'.

- you said: ""Ordinary girl" card played". As above.

- you said "faffing "jazz hands" mentioned". IMo, this is the closest you have come to a 'factual' quote. However, you have also imposed your own judgement on it ("faffing"). Which stops it being completely 'factual'.

- you said: "Absurd over-praise for Zoe. "This is the makings of a 10", Craig says". As above, in terms of the difference between purely 'factual' and 'personal interpretation of what is said'.

Like others, I don't agree with your interpretation of tonight's ITT. While respecting your right to hold a different view of the programme, of course

We should start a sub-forum - I bought Brigadoon on DVD recently and relived Saturdays of the seventies watching it with my daughter. Maybe Strictly should have a random XF style theme night, and they should all have to reproduce a dance from the old films. Brendan could wear a sailor suit....

I loved the one called something like Angels - rubbish with book names - lot of it quite close to home for me, and makes me weep. Think all of them bear rereading which is one of my criteria for a good book.


Oi how old do you think I am - this was on a colour television in the seventies, not at the actual cinema screening! Shall we just say that I was taking my 'O' levels in the year of your old username - but I don't need Mike Baldwin to show me how to get online

Oooh, yes!!! (To the Brigadoon/old Hollywood musicals idea)

Actually didn't Colin Jackson do singing in the rain for CHildren in Need the year he was on? It may well work!

Group dance to the barn building/face off routine from Seven Brides for Seven Brothers?

Perhaps we should - Heather on the Hill from Brigadoon would be a start and what about How are things in Gloccomarra (sp) from Finian's Rainbow.

I would love a classical night.

OK - a bit of fun. Let's predict the judges leaderboard tomorrow

1. Zoe & James
2. Ricky & Natalie
3. Ali & Brian
4. Jade & Ian
5. Chris & Ola
6. Ricky & Erin
7. Natalie & Vincent
8. Laila & Anton
9. Phil & Katya
10. Jo & Brendan
11. Craig & Flavia

Any other guesses

It was a perfectly good way to state an opinion. It should not be necessary to stick in "imo", "I think" or similar for things that are clearly opinions. You don't signpost all of your opinions that way. Almost no one does.


No, I was careful to use the same words. BuddyBontheNet wrote "She is the one guest celeb who clearly does love the show", which sounds like she's the only one, so I asked "So no other guest celeb clearly loves the show?"


You can think you can sense it, anyway. But it's one of those pesky subjective opinions that others may disagree with.

And of course it's possible to be a fan and have something to plug.

I think what most irritated me about her tonight was the way she treated Natalie C as if she were some kind of champion of ordinary girls. (A very Coleen-like point, just with "ordinary girl" in the place of "real woman".)

Love it! And also the beginning bit of On the Town


We got that at the same time as Brigadoon. Vincent could be the leprechaun - sorry Sid! And maybe Brendan could get some nice tartan trews and a cap and do Bonny Jean - yikes this is seriously OT - maybe ITT could do this as one of their VTs - anyone see what I did there

Enough already with Natalie and Vincent. They get more face time on ITT than any other couple. Nothing special about her. So, she looks like the ordinary out of shape housewife. Big Deal!. Kind of like she has a handicap. Isn't it just amazing that such an ordinay girl can actually dance, Oh, let's give her high marks, just for attempting this. Of all the girls left on the show, for me she is at the bottom. So, why so much ITT time. I'd rather see Jade, Ali, Laila, Zoe, or Joe just walk across the floor, than the modlen, lispy Natalie rumble through a dance.

I also laugh when they review her dresses, the waist line is just so tiny. It's a real hoot. If they are going to show the dress she is wearing on Saturday night, it should be true representation of what it really is going to look like. Not something that Jeesica Rabbit could hardly fit in to.

I don't get his obsession with Alesha either - maybe it is because she has mainly said nice things about them, but then told him he'd let her and himself down in week 4.

I also agree about Zoe's moaning. I think part of her problem is the fact that she takes so long to learn the basic routines. Most celebs have got the basic routine down by Tuesday, maybe Wednesday at the latest. The other part is that she is her own worst enemy by being such a moaner, and if she could just relax into the dance on the night and try to enjoy the experience, then that would really lift her performance. When I watch her dance on a Saturday night, I get the feeling that's how she dances in the training room, and she needs to come out on a Saturday night and perform the dance! I get no sense of any pleasure in the dancing from her - and that's a bit worrying for a dancer of her potential at this stage. Heaven help her if she gets to the two dances a week stage. She's bubbling on the edge of being good, but she's her own worst enemy and may never become good if she can't relax into the dancing.


I've got Angels too. Some of her books are pure Chick Lit and others like Rachel's Holiday are more about the main character's 'journey'. I like the way too some of her books revolve around the one family and each character at a different time in their lives.


I love that film and have got the DVD! I'd love to see a group dance based on that routine!

PS I saw Howard Keel singing live once and he was fabulous - what a voice!

Not even, say, Natalie C? (She must have been a guest at some point.) Not even Alesha (when she was a guest)?


Some of it definitely. Making it a bit odd to disagree with every word of it.


Of course I added interpretations. Was that unclear somehow, so that it's necessary to make a point of pointing it out?

Pretty accurate interpretations too, in my opinion.

Natalie didn't just say "people at home", for example. It was a "people at home" vs judges point. Mariam didn't just say Natalie was an "ordinary girl" either. Nor was the absurd over-praise for Zoe confined to "This is the makings of a 10".

I don't think any one couple has been on ITT more than any other, or has had more coverage either.

As for the diagrams of the dresses, they are all drawn like that in the fashion industry.

You've expressed your opinion of Natalie very clearly, but your post comes over to me as pretty sour and mean spirited to be honest, so I'm not going to argue with you.

I would love this!

Brigadoon is such a lovely film. I always cry when he leaves and the village vanishes.....even though every time I know the ending will be happy. Such lovely music.

I love all the old musicals.

All I can say is I don't remember either of them being a guest on ITT before they were contestants, but then again my memory is dreadful at the moment - most of the time in fact.

Anyway, not long to show time and I'm going to bed, so catch everyone later to do this all over again! Night, night!

My post was in answer to your earlier posts - where your stance was that your OP contained 'plain facts'; 'simply reported things that were said'; etc. So, I was pointing out the difference between 'plain facts' etc and 'interpretation'.

You have since moved to the stance that you were 'stat[ing] an opinion'; 'added interpretations'.

That stance tallies with my understanding of your OP. It was opinion, interpretation, and subjective. So, on that point we are in agreement.

We remain in disagreement over our respective opinions/interpretations of tonight's ITT.

Natalie reminds me of Sheryl Lee who played Laura Palmer in Twin Peaks, I think it's the mouth

Why? My OP did contain plain facts and did report things that were said. I never said that was all it contained. (Don't leave out the "Much of my post" that was before the "simply reported things that were said".)

But someone who did not "agree with a single word" was disagreeing with the factual parts, not only with the interpretations.


I have not changed my stance in any way.


We're not. My OP contained plain facts (along with interpretations and opinions). Everything I said people said, they actually said. Watch the recording on the BBC site if you don't believe me.

Why would it have to be before they were contestants? That might make sense in Natalie's case, since she's a contestant now, but not in Alesha's.

Alesha was on the Friday Panel the year before she competed, I remember Marian Keyes was on that panel discussing the outfits with Craig looking at the routines.