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Anton Du Beke in alleged Racist Slur (merged)
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What name??
09-10-2009
Originally Posted by Annsyre:
“There is a great deal of difference between condoning something (giving it approval) and getting into a near hysterical state about something which you did not personally witness and basing your judgment of an event you didn't witness on hearsay. imo.”

There is also a big difference between expressing your disapproval of something and hysteria. However there is little difference between condoning something and making silly excuses for bad behaviour such as (it was in private, she was asking for it, and in my day ethnics just put up with the abuse and smiled, he's a good bloke apart from the fact that he is occasionally obnoxious to Asians etc...)

At some point the idiots expressing these views should realise that they are prolonging the ho ha by highlighting how widespead the acceptance of casual abuse is.
lupie123
09-10-2009
Originally Posted by 2811:
“Sobers - Calm down ”

There's some irony in there somewhere
SCD Rebel
09-10-2009
Originally Posted by What name??:
“There is also a big difference between expressing your disapproval of something and hysteria. However there is little difference between condoning something and making silly excuses for bad behaviour such as (it was in private, she was asking for it, and in my day ethnics just put up with the abuse and smiled, he's a good bloke apart from the fact that he is occasionally obnoxious to Asians etc...)

At some point the idiots expressing these views should realise that they are prolonging the ho ha by highlighting how widespead the acceptance of casual abuse is.”

Exactly.
lupie123
09-10-2009
Originally Posted by What name??:
“There is also a big difference between expressing your disapproval of something and hysteria. However there is little difference between condoning something and making silly excuses for bad behaviour such as (it was in private, she was asking for it, and in my day ethnics just put up with the abuse and smiled, he's a good bloke apart from the fact that he is occasionally obnoxious to Asians etc...)

At some point the idiots expressing these views should realise that they are prolonging the ho ha by highlighting how widespead the acceptance of casual abuse is.”

100000000% agree with this.
barkley
09-10-2009
anton taking part in emergency press conference right now...
SCD Rebel
09-10-2009
Originally Posted by barkley:
“anton taking part in emergency press conference right now...”


Lol!!!
sobers
09-10-2009
Originally Posted by katrinap:
“And a RISE in your blood pressure by the sound of it. If you don't care whether I respect your position, why are you still trying to shove it down my throat?”

If you can't handle then truth, thenby all means run along and go and find some black or brown person who will sugar coat this and tell you what you WANT to hear and give you your necessary ego-massage. As Nelson Mandela once said "You can't put a man on a hot stove or oven and then get mad at what he says"

Originally Posted by katrinap:
“In addition, making this into a "you" vs "we" polemic as you do in your last sentence not only metaphorically strengthens the divisions that you're railing against.”

Well, what is good for the sheep is not necessarily good for the wolf. What is good for the fox is not necessarily good for the hound. What is good for the child is not necessarily good for the peodophile.
katrinap
09-10-2009
Originally Posted by sobers:
“If you can't handle then truth, thenby all means run along and go and find some black or brown person who will sugar coat this and tell you what you WANT to hear and give you your necessary ego-massage. As Nelson Mandela once said "You can't put a man on a hot stove or oven and then get mad at what he says"


Well, what is good for the sheep is not necessarily good for the wolf. What is good for the fox is not necessarily good for the hound. What is good for the child is not necessarily good for the peodophile.”

As someone stated earlier in the thread, if we're to move forward on this issue education is key, and you don't achieve that by shouting people down. You're clearly more interested in preaching than discussion so I'll be ignoring you from now on. Your heart might be in the right place, but your mouth most certainly isn't.
nanscombe
09-10-2009
OT The other day I was accused of, and admitted to, not knowing much about Indian history.

Well, I've started to address this in a roundabout manner.

Just been to a preview of the Maharajah exhibition at the V&A.

My word, what a chequered history India has had; Persian, Hindhu, Seikh rulers and then the East India company and HM Government.

It's mainly about the splendour, jewels etc but there were snippets of a political nature to go with it.

Very interesting, I think I'll be back for another look around soon.
Annsyre
09-10-2009
Originally Posted by What name??:
“There is also a big difference between expressing your disapproval of something and hysteria. However there is little difference between condoning something and making silly excuses for bad behaviour such as (it was in private, she was asking for it, and in my day ethnics just put up with the abuse and smiled, he's a good bloke apart from the fact that he is occasionally obnoxious to Asians etc...)

At some point the idiots expressing these views should realise that they are prolonging the ho ha by highlighting how widespead the acceptance of casual abuse is.”

I don't think that calling fellow forum by abusive names will encourage anyone to take what you say seriously.

Using personal abuse to argue against abuse is rather silly and counter-productive.. imo.
What name??
09-10-2009
Originally Posted by Annsyre:
“I don't think that calling fellow forum by abusive names will encourage anyone to take what you say seriously.

Using personal abuse to argue against abuse is rather silly and counter-productive.. imo.”

I think you'll find that personal abuse has to be directed at a person. Calling unamed persons who say idiotic things idjits comes under the heading of stating the obvious.

However any individuals that feels this covers them and might be agrieved I'm sure will understand that a bit of banter is acceptable and they shoudn't be so thin skinned in future. If they are still upset I'm sure they will be totally satisfied because I give my total and unconditional apology to for any offense caused to any idiots on this board, and to any who were offened on behalf of idiots everywhere. I am not prejudiced against idiots - honestly - it was just an honest slip up....
Bhoy1888
09-10-2009
What I want to know is when is he going to come IT2 and make a public apology.Then we can forget this issue and move on.The fact he is hiding away all week does not help this situation
Iphigenia
09-10-2009
Why should he?

(I'm sure I've asked this before. Trial by media. Vile. )
AndyTSJ
09-10-2009
Originally Posted by Bhoy1888:
“What I want to know is when is he going to come IT2 and make a public apology.Then we can forget this issue and move on.The fact he is hiding away all week does not help this situation”

Why does he need to make a public apology. If he feels he needs to apologise to a particular person, he will. He doesn't need to apologise to me and I don't need to see him apologise. The hysteria that surrounds things like this make our tabloid "news"papers the cringeworthy embarrasment that they are...
pickledgherkin
09-10-2009
I would not generally endorse the right wing Telegraph but I like, and agree with, this article which I think is well balanced; it puts the topic - and particularly Anton - in perspective:

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/mi...-come-dancing/
BantamBelle
09-10-2009
Originally Posted by AndyTSJ:
“Why does he need to make a public apology. If he feels he needs to apologise to a particular person, he will. He doesn't need to apologise to me and I don't need to see him apologise. The hysteria that surrounds things like this make our tabloid "news"papers the cringeworthy embarrasment that they are...”

He already has made a public apology though.
Ficklepickle
09-10-2009
Originally Posted by nanscombe:
“OT The other day I was accused of, and admitted to, not knowing much about Indian history.

Well, I've started to address this in a roundabout manner.

Just been to a preview of the Maharajah exhibition at the V&A.

My word, what a chequered history India has had; Persian, Hindhu, Seikh rulers and then the East India company and HM Government.

It's mainly about the splendour, jewels etc but there were snippets of a political nature to go with it.

Very interesting, I think I'll be back for another look around soon.”

Sounds a good exhibition - and nice to read a positive post.
InigoMontoya
09-10-2009
Originally Posted by What name??:
“I think you'll find that personal abuse has to be directed at a person. Calling unamed persons who say idiotic things idjits comes under the heading of stating the obvious.

However any individuals that feels this covers them and might be agrieved I'm sure will understand that a bit of banter is acceptable and they shoudn't be so thin skinned in future. If they are still upset I'm sure they will be totally satisfied because I give my total and unconditional apology to for any offense caused to any idiots on this board, and to any who were offened on behalf of idiots everywhere. I am not prejudiced against idiots - honestly - it was just an honest slip up....”

I've rarely seen such a fine version of "I'm sorry you're an idiot."

I don't use the word "idiot" anymore because I believe there are those who would find it an offensive term. However, I do use the term "idiotic" with abandon. I just don't use it to describe everyone and anyone who might disagree with me.
Picklebum
09-10-2009
Originally Posted by sobers:
“I agree, I wasn't there but the best way of knowing whether Anton meant it in a funny is by looking at white people's historical use of the word P A K I. The historic use of the P-word in the white community is not one of mixed meaning. It is not a history in which you called your Asian friends as if it meant little more than "Hey there, let's go grab a burger and fries at the Mickey D's." In the mouths and hearts of whites, the P word has only been used in the context of contempt, of presumed white superiority, of anti-Asian bigotry.

As such, for any white person to use it today is to force the Asian person hearing it to immediately wonder what's behind the comment, what the speaker's intent really is. That many whites won't be able to understand this SIMPLE point is testimony to nothing so much as your own sense of entitlement. In other words, you are not used to anyone telling you that you can't do something, or shouldn't, and as such take great offense when your own freedom, including the freedom to offend, is constrained.

To me, there is more support for Anton that against him because it’s just the desire of whites to maintain a certain form of white privilege: the privilege of saying whatever you want, whenever you want, and feeling as though your right to lecture others on their behavior should logically take precedence over controlling our own.


I think it's fairly safe to say that Anton would have thought twice about calling Rav a P**I as he did Laila. Whether Rav would have reacted violently is NOT the issue. How many people do you know would insult a person they know could destroy them ?


You really think I care about your respect ? Listen - Anton drew first blood and I said in my past post. His insults are NOT the issue. His insults take place against a backdrop of a RISE in facism across Europe, a RISE in the Aryan Brotherhood, a RISE in the Nazi Low Riders, a RISE in hatred against muslims, a RISE in the BNP, a RISE in the English Defence League and a RISE in discrimination and racism in housing, employment and the criminal justice sytem for people of colour. So given this FACT, Antons words take on a greater signifigance. And I really don't care whether or not you are tired of hearing about these things, but we are lot more tired of living in it.”


Blimey charlie. Come on peeps! I'm sure we can all think of other current catastrophes to blame on Anton.

I vote the current economic climate! The swine!
loulou63
09-10-2009
Does anyone know what Claudia was referring to when she said that Laila had a tough day today with things being written about her?
lori
09-10-2009
in noway do i condone racism.

but there is a limit as to how many times the very same fms on thread after thread ,debating,dissecting, overexaggerating, elaborating over a mistake that Anton will probably have to live with for the rest of his life.

i would also like to point out that some ethnic minority's are very racist but it seems they can get away with it because they are a difirent colour to the average joe on the street.
lupie123
09-10-2009
Originally Posted by Picklebum:
“Blimey charlie. Come on peeps! I'm sure we can all think of other current catastrophes to blame on Anton.

I vote the current economic climate! The swine!”

I lost a sock last week. Whilst I am aware its not a catastrophe I am willing to let Anton take the blame for it
square_is
09-10-2009
I'm new to this thread, I certainly haven't got time to read all 51 pages, but having seen this evenings ITT I have to say I thought that Anton was sincere in his apology and obviously this weeks witch hunt by the media has had an adverse effect on both of them.

The trial by media should now stop, he has apologised to Laila and the public can't we just accept that?
Picklebum
09-10-2009
Originally Posted by sobers:
“I agree, I wasn't there but the best way of knowing whether Anton meant it in a funny is by looking at white people's historical use of the word P A K I. The historic use of the P-word in the white community is not one of mixed meaning. It is not a history in which you called your Asian friends as if it meant little more than "Hey there, let's go grab a burger and fries at the Mickey D's." In the mouths and hearts of whites, the P word has only been used in the context of contempt, of presumed white superiority, of anti-Asian bigotry.

As such, for any white person to use it today is to force the Asian person hearing it to immediately wonder what's behind the comment, what the speaker's intent really is. That many whites won't be able to understand this SIMPLE point is testimony to nothing so much as your own sense of entitlement. In other words, you are not used to anyone telling you that you can't do something, or shouldn't, and as such take great offense when your own freedom, including the freedom to offend, is constrained.

To me, there is more support for Anton that against him because it’s just the desire of whites to maintain a certain form of white privilege: the privilege of saying whatever you want, whenever you want, and feeling as though your right to lecture others on their behavior should logically take precedence over controlling our own.


I think it's fairly safe to say that Anton would have thought twice about calling Rav a P**I as he did Laila. Whether Rav would have reacted violently is NOT the issue. How many people do you know would insult a person they know could destroy them ?


You really think I care about your respect ? Listen - Anton drew first blood and I said in my past post. His insults are NOT the issue. His insults take place against a backdrop of a RISE in facism across Europe, a RISE in the Aryan Brotherhood, a RISE in the Nazi Low Riders, a RISE in hatred against muslims, a RISE in the BNP, a RISE in the English Defence League and a RISE in discrimination and racism in housing, employment and the criminal justice sytem for people of colour. So given this FACT, Antons words take on a greater signifigance. And I really don't care whether or not you are tired of hearing about these things, but we are lot more tired of living in it.”


Can you also add a RISE in the incidents of black on white verbal and physical abuse as experienced by my white 15 year old neice at her South East London "Flagship Academy School".

Can't leave out the facts now can we. Many thanks.
WakingUpInVegas
09-10-2009
Originally Posted by square_is:
“I'm new to this thread, I certainly haven't got time to read all 51 pages, but having seen this evenings ITT I have to say I thought that Anton was sincere in his apology and obviously this weeks witch hunt by the media has had an adverse effect on both of them.

The trial by media should now stop, he has apologised to Laila and the public can't we just accept that?”

Well said

Some people were moaning he needed to apologise on air, he did so and in my honest opinion it was sincere. Anton said himself he is mortified about the situation. Laila was most gracious and they seem to me like they get along really well and just want to be left alone to continue to dance. Everyone on a Anton Du Beke witchhunt should let it rest now, the situation is done and dusted end of
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