It's weird that she hasn't picked up correct grammar by now as she's really intelligent. But I love her anyway...
Alesha sort out your grammar for goodness sake (Merged)
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In response to earlier comments, I think it's worth distinguishing between pronunciation and grammar. As an ESOL teacher I've been trained to give students a good grounding in grammar, but what I cannot pass on is "The Queen's English" in terms of pronunciation, because I don't have the required accent myself. There is nothing in either Trinity or Cambridge's TESOL course to say that I should, perhaps since the majority of native English speakers have accents other than RP. However, when it comes to the native speaker, I think there are all sorts of influences in play. I once worked (in academia) with a man who chose to cover his Edinburgh accent with something pretty close to RP, and it was quite a convincing act, but the occasional use of a word we wouldn't use in England, along with the odd quirk in his sentence construction, occasionally gave him away. I think most of us who worked with him would have had no problem with him using his natural accent or the odd grammatical quirk that was authentic to his background. Hence in spite of my training I don't condemn Alesha's less than perfect use of grammar - in fact I am sure I make the odd mistake myself here and there, especially in speech.
Part of the problem is that she doesn't have professional dance credentials to support her utterances so it undermines her judgement even further if she can't even speak properly.
Bruno speaks grammatically. Many people regard the inability or reluctance to conjugate verbs correctly as laziness. In order to get this particular gig she didn't need formal dance experience. Could she not at least take pains to speak correctly?
As a native English-speaker one simply sounds stupid when making that particular error.
Bruno speaks grammatically. Many people regard the inability or reluctance to conjugate verbs correctly as laziness. In order to get this particular gig she didn't need formal dance experience. Could she not at least take pains to speak correctly?
As a native English-speaker one simply sounds stupid when making that particular error.
Originally Posted by miaviv:
“see my post above but just in case, she said something like "you dance really natural" instead of "you dance really naturally" - naturally being the adverb to describe how the person danced, natural is the adjective. So unfortunately the was/were wasn't the only one.”
“see my post above but just in case, she said something like "you dance really natural" instead of "you dance really naturally" - naturally being the adverb to describe how the person danced, natural is the adjective. So unfortunately the was/were wasn't the only one.”
I might be wrong here, but doesn't Len have an aversion to adverbs as well? I don't think it's just Alesha who doesn't quite speak standard English.
Many many many people say 'you was'. That is how society has become. A heck of a lot of people do not use correct grammar... I had an English teacher who used to ask to 'lend a pen off' instead of 'borrow a pen from'. Yes perhaps as someone appearing on a TV programme she should speak grammatically correctly all the time, but where do you draw the line? How many ither people do not speak 'correctly' on TV?
Or is it just a case that people will use any reason to criticise?
Or is it just a case that people will use any reason to criticise?
Mildly irritating, but I love her! I still would much rather listen to Alesha's grammatical mistakes that the awful alliterations that couldn't be got right (even after rehearsing them), the screeching and all the letching over male bottoms that the previous panel member had. What was her name again????
Alesha's grammar is awful - it really started to grate on me after a while and she really should be brought up on it if she's going to continue on in a presenting career.
Like others have said, kids watch the show and it's setting a bad example when a presenter can't even manage to speak their own language properly!
Like others have said, kids watch the show and it's setting a bad example when a presenter can't even manage to speak their own language properly!
Originally Posted by MarkFan:
“While we're sorting out the "was", could we sort out the laugh as well please? Thanks.”
“While we're sorting out the "was", could we sort out the laugh as well please? Thanks.”
One has rarely heard Her Majesty's laugh. So The Queen's Laugh as the gold standard would be hard to establish.
Originally Posted by Sallyforth:
“In response to earlier comments, I think it's worth distinguishing between pronunciation and grammar. As an ESOL teacher I've been trained to give students a good grounding in grammar, but what I cannot pass on is "The Queen's English" in terms of pronunciation, because I don't have the required accent myself. There is nothing in either Trinity or Cambridge's TESOL course to say that I should, perhaps since the majority of native English speakers have accents other than RP. However, when it comes to the native speaker, I think there are all sorts of influences in play. I once worked (in academia) with a man who chose to cover his Edinburgh accent with something pretty close to RP, and it was quite a convincing act, but the occasional use of a word we wouldn't use in England, along with the odd quirk in his sentence construction, occasionally gave him away. I think most of us who worked with him would have had no problem with him using his natural accent or the odd grammatical quirk that was authentic to his background. Hence in spite of my training I don't condemn Alesha's less than perfect use of grammar - in fact I am sure I make the odd mistake myself here and there, especially in speech.”
“In response to earlier comments, I think it's worth distinguishing between pronunciation and grammar. As an ESOL teacher I've been trained to give students a good grounding in grammar, but what I cannot pass on is "The Queen's English" in terms of pronunciation, because I don't have the required accent myself. There is nothing in either Trinity or Cambridge's TESOL course to say that I should, perhaps since the majority of native English speakers have accents other than RP. However, when it comes to the native speaker, I think there are all sorts of influences in play. I once worked (in academia) with a man who chose to cover his Edinburgh accent with something pretty close to RP, and it was quite a convincing act, but the occasional use of a word we wouldn't use in England, along with the odd quirk in his sentence construction, occasionally gave him away. I think most of us who worked with him would have had no problem with him using his natural accent or the odd grammatical quirk that was authentic to his background. Hence in spite of my training I don't condemn Alesha's less than perfect use of grammar - in fact I am sure I make the odd mistake myself here and there, especially in speech.”
Hmm... totally reasonable distinction. But her errors were (sic!
) pretty glaring, and I bet you don't make the same kind...
Originally Posted by Christa:
“It's weird that she hasn't picked up correct grammar by now as she's really intelligent. But I love her anyway...”
“It's weird that she hasn't picked up correct grammar by now as she's really intelligent. But I love her anyway...”
Not really. People speak like this. Some go on to be teachers. Much of the population never gets to the level of skill in English that they should have by the time they leave primary school. At university level most staff don't have time to correct people's english in essays any more - with more students and no more staff - so there's no final attempt to sort problems out. Foreign language teaching in schools has declined so people won't pick up grammar learning French or German let alone Latin. Text speak has minimal grammar. Social networking means people talk more to each other and use each others grammar. TV viewing and newspaper readership is declining. Its a losing battul.
Originally Posted by thenetworkbabe:
“Not really. People speak like this. Some go on to be teachers. Much of the population never gets to the level of skill in English that they should have by the time they leave primary school. At university level most staff don't have time to correct people's english in essays any more - with more students and no more staff - so there's no final attempt to sort problems out. Foreign language teaching in schools has declined so people won't pick up grammar learning French or German let alone Latin. Text speak has minimal grammar. Social networking means people talk more to each other and use each others grammar. TV viewing and newspaper readership is declining. Its a losing battul.”
“Not really. People speak like this. Some go on to be teachers. Much of the population never gets to the level of skill in English that they should have by the time they leave primary school. At university level most staff don't have time to correct people's english in essays any more - with more students and no more staff - so there's no final attempt to sort problems out. Foreign language teaching in schools has declined so people won't pick up grammar learning French or German let alone Latin. Text speak has minimal grammar. Social networking means people talk more to each other and use each others grammar. TV viewing and newspaper readership is declining. Its a losing battul.”
Indeed!
(Just teasing!)
First big laugh of the day, thanks Paace! The fact that Arlene's replacement - that's the same Arlene who couldn't string a coherent sentence together on live TV if her life depended on it - is getting picked up for incorrect grammar is priceless.
I wonder if a bigger bunch of hypocrites has ever been assembled in such a small part of cyberspace?
I wonder if a bigger bunch of hypocrites has ever been assembled in such a small part of cyberspace?
I like Alesha being herself and think she is intelligent but the confusion between "was" and "were" is embarrassing and irritating.
Originally Posted by thenetworkbabe:
“Not really. People speak like this. Some go on to be teachers. Much of the population never gets to the level of skill in English that they should have by the time they leave primary school. At university level most staff don't have time to correct people's english in essays any more - with more students and no more staff - so there's no final attempt to sort problems out. Foreign language teaching in schools has declined so people won't pick up grammar learning French or German let alone Latin. Text speak has minimal grammar. Social networking means people talk more to each other and use each others grammar. TV viewing and newspaper readership is declining. Its a losing battul.”
“Not really. People speak like this. Some go on to be teachers. Much of the population never gets to the level of skill in English that they should have by the time they leave primary school. At university level most staff don't have time to correct people's english in essays any more - with more students and no more staff - so there's no final attempt to sort problems out. Foreign language teaching in schools has declined so people won't pick up grammar learning French or German let alone Latin. Text speak has minimal grammar. Social networking means people talk more to each other and use each others grammar. TV viewing and newspaper readership is declining. Its a losing battul.”
Obviously I can only speak for my secondary school and the uni I'm at right now and of my own experiences, but I disagree with these sweeping generalisations. I was taught French and Spanish to as high a degree as needed for GCSE, with the grammatical rules and regulations being drummed into us from the age of 11.
Also, at my univeristy, the staff that mark our essays always highlight the importance of good grammar and in the event of poor syntax, confusion of tenses etc this is always pointed out. There are even workshops run a few times every week to help individuals with such problems.
Originally Posted by Ficklepickle:
“Indeed!
(Just teasing!)”
“Indeed!
(Just teasing!)”
I think the poster was illustrating a point actually
Originally Posted by mashedpotatoes:
“I think the poster was illustrating a point actually”
“I think the poster was illustrating a point actually
”
Indeed! I was just wilfully ignoring that!
I live close to Welwyn Garden City and can confirm there are many people that speak like Alesha: and with the same grammatical errors. Local favourites are "I brang" instead of I brought and "I breaked" instead of I broke. Personally I believe poor grammar lets people down and gives the impression they aren't as intelligent as they are.
Teachers DO correct incorrect speech, but if pupils are hearing poor grammar at home, it takes a lot to change the child's errors.
Teachers DO correct incorrect speech, but if pupils are hearing poor grammar at home, it takes a lot to change the child's errors.
The displeasing manner of speech become more noticeable when the content of speech disappoints.
If someone announces next week's six winning lottery numbers in street talk no-one would complain about the poor grammar.
If someone announces next week's six winning lottery numbers in street talk no-one would complain about the poor grammar.
Originally Posted by katrinap:
“You should have thought harder before you edited. If I was responding to you, I would have quoted you. It's not all about *Janz*.”
“You should have thought harder before you edited. If I was responding to you, I would have quoted you. It's not all about *Janz*.”
Oh right, I'm sorry. I just thought you were because when I've tried quoting two quotes, the first gets deleted. Again, I apologise.
Originally Posted by *Janz*:
“Oh right, I'm sorry. I just thought you were because when I've tried quoting two quotes, the first gets deleted. Again, I apologise.”
“Oh right, I'm sorry. I just thought you were because when I've tried quoting two quotes, the first gets deleted. Again, I apologise.”
No problem, and thanks for the PM.
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Originally Posted by soapgirlhere:
“I agree, the 'You was' did get irritating after a while...”
“I agree, the 'You was' did get irritating after a while...”
wow has she said it that many times? I havent noticed you know! I'm always changing between xfactor and SCD, that most of the time i miss her comments. Hmmm, someone should tell her about that because it makes her sound very uneducated.
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