Please excuse my "Alesha moment" above...
It should be "Why do some people..." not "Why does some people..."
It should be "Why do some people..." not "Why does some people..."
Anton's Jiving (merged)
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Originally Posted by Three Left Feet:
“Why does some people find it necessary to refer to Anton as Tony?
I'll happily accept that Tony is his real name and the "Anton Du" bit is a stage name added for artistic effect, but in a discussion about the quality of his dancing, the name is irrelevant.
The use of Tony can only really be motivated by some personal dislike of Anton which renders the opinions of those who refer to him as "Tony" as questionable / biased.
For the record, I think Anton is a pillock and even to my untutored eye his Latin dancing looks suspect (and his continued refusal to do anything about it is unprofessional), but referring to him as "Tony" is an obvious sign of much deeper issues at a personal level.
“Why does some people find it necessary to refer to Anton as Tony?
I'll happily accept that Tony is his real name and the "Anton Du" bit is a stage name added for artistic effect, but in a discussion about the quality of his dancing, the name is irrelevant.
The use of Tony can only really be motivated by some personal dislike of Anton which renders the opinions of those who refer to him as "Tony" as questionable / biased.
For the record, I think Anton is a pillock and even to my untutored eye his Latin dancing looks suspect (and his continued refusal to do anything about it is unprofessional), but referring to him as "Tony" is an obvious sign of much deeper issues at a personal level.
Originally Posted by missfrankiecat:
“Quite. It says a great deal about the people who insist on using it after all these years. It appears that some cannot accept that, whatever they think about his dancing skills and personality, he has made a career for himself they have not achieved.”
”
“Quite. It says a great deal about the people who insist on using it after all these years. It appears that some cannot accept that, whatever they think about his dancing skills and personality, he has made a career for himself they have not achieved.”
I agree with this. How many people would insist on calling someone else successful by their real name? I'm sure Elton John would be thrilled if you constantly referred to him as Reg Dwight (first name that popped into my head btw).
I must have been watching a different ITT last night, in fact a different version of ITT every time Laila and Anton have been on. I don't get all these comments about Laila and Anton not getting on. If you do watch them on ITT, then surely you see they have a very strong partnership - feisty, but strong. And last night Laila was very vocal, dominating the conversation - watch it again if you don't believe me and you will see Anton consciously stop talking to let Laila continue speaking.
It is clear that Laila is a strong character and I think Anton is trying his hardest to get her to do her best - I hope the Samba session with Chris Marques can be rearranged (if that is true). But so far Laila has been her own worst enemy, having convinced herself she can't do a fast dance, and I hope what she said on ITT about having a whole new attitude toward Latin is true and works out for them.
Originally Posted by arlene's boy:
“Then again, if Laila can't be bothered to turn up for a session on the samba specially organised with Chris Marques! I think we can tell that her priorities for doing SCD lie somewhere other than the dancing.”
“Then again, if Laila can't be bothered to turn up for a session on the samba specially organised with Chris Marques! I think we can tell that her priorities for doing SCD lie somewhere other than the dancing.”
hello, missed this story - do you know where I could find it ta?
Originally Posted by BuddyBontheNet:
“I agree with this. How many people would insist on calling someone else successful by their real name? I'm sure Elton John would be thrilled if you constantly referred to him as Reg Dwight (first name that popped into my head btw).
I must have been watching a different ITT last night, in fact a different version of ITT every time Laila and Anton have been on. I don't get all these comments about Laila and Anton not getting on. If you do watch them on ITT, then surely you see they have a very strong partnership - feisty, but strong. And last night Laila was very vocal, dominating the conversation - watch it again if you don't believe me and you will see Anton consciously stop talking to let Laila continue speaking.
It is clear that Laila is a strong character and I think Anton is trying his hardest to get her to do her best - I hope the Samba session with Chris Marques can be rearranged (if that is true). But so far Laila has been her own worst enemy, having convinced herself she can't do a fast dance, and I hope what she said on ITT about having a whole new attitude toward Latin is true and works out for them.”
“I agree with this. How many people would insist on calling someone else successful by their real name? I'm sure Elton John would be thrilled if you constantly referred to him as Reg Dwight (first name that popped into my head btw).
I must have been watching a different ITT last night, in fact a different version of ITT every time Laila and Anton have been on. I don't get all these comments about Laila and Anton not getting on. If you do watch them on ITT, then surely you see they have a very strong partnership - feisty, but strong. And last night Laila was very vocal, dominating the conversation - watch it again if you don't believe me and you will see Anton consciously stop talking to let Laila continue speaking.
It is clear that Laila is a strong character and I think Anton is trying his hardest to get her to do her best - I hope the Samba session with Chris Marques can be rearranged (if that is true). But so far Laila has been her own worst enemy, having convinced herself she can't do a fast dance, and I hope what she said on ITT about having a whole new attitude toward Latin is true and works out for them.”
Just to clarify this was not a name change by someone who was successful or in the public eye it was just a name change by a ballroom competitor who changed his name a few times and it was always seen as a bit of a joke and done well before he was on SCD
Bendy,
The history of Anton's name and whether this has implications on how we view him as a person is maybe the subject of another thread; I was just curious as to you refer to him as Tony in a thread about the quality of his dancing.
It's irrelevant to the subject matter (i.e. Anton's latin dancing and attitude thereto), but no-one ever posts something multiple times without a reason and it would be interesting (purely academically) to know what your reason is.
The most natural interpretation is that Anton has done you some disservice in the past and you are gaining some sort of compensation for this by a petty insult.
The history of Anton's name and whether this has implications on how we view him as a person is maybe the subject of another thread; I was just curious as to you refer to him as Tony in a thread about the quality of his dancing.
It's irrelevant to the subject matter (i.e. Anton's latin dancing and attitude thereto), but no-one ever posts something multiple times without a reason and it would be interesting (purely academically) to know what your reason is.
The most natural interpretation is that Anton has done you some disservice in the past and you are gaining some sort of compensation for this by a petty insult.
Originally Posted by Three Left Feet:
“Bendy,
The history of Anton's name and whether this has implications on how we view him as a person is maybe the subject of another thread; I was just curious as to you refer to him as Tony in a thread about the quality of his dancing.
It's irrelevant to the subject matter (i.e. Anton's latin dancing and attitude thereto), but no-one ever posts something multiple times without a reason and it would be interesting (purely academically) to know what your reason is.
The most natural interpretation is that Anton has done you some disservice in the past and you are gaining some sort of compensation for this by a petty insult.”
“Bendy,
The history of Anton's name and whether this has implications on how we view him as a person is maybe the subject of another thread; I was just curious as to you refer to him as Tony in a thread about the quality of his dancing.
It's irrelevant to the subject matter (i.e. Anton's latin dancing and attitude thereto), but no-one ever posts something multiple times without a reason and it would be interesting (purely academically) to know what your reason is.
The most natural interpretation is that Anton has done you some disservice in the past and you are gaining some sort of compensation for this by a petty insult.”
just calling him by his GIVEN name and the name I have always adressed him as when I've met him you DON't really think people who know him call him ANTON do you?? and if you think a person being called their GIVEN name in an insuilt - words fail me!!!
OK, so basically you were just showing off that you know him personally and know that he's really called Tony, whilst the majority of the rest of the punters here only know him by his stage name because they've never met him.
Originally Posted by Three Left Feet:
“OK, so basically you were just showing off that you know him personally and know that he's really called Tony, whilst the majority of the rest of the punters here only know him by his stage name because they've never met him.”
“OK, so basically you were just showing off that you know him personally and know that he's really called Tony, whilst the majority of the rest of the punters here only know him by his stage name because they've never met him.”
nope not showing off I just refuse to call him Anton
Looks to me like some people are terribly JELLUS of not knowing Tony personally. Well, it's nothing to hanker after, believe you me.
These attacks on bendy, to me, stink of some silly women frothing at the gash over some lantern-jawed OAF and taking someone else's negative opinion personally.
Bendy is more than entitled to her opinion and it is clearly a far better-informed opinion than those slating her. And as for the comment about her showing off, that's jealousy pure and simple. Bendy can speak with AUTHORITY about Tony because she knows him personally, has done for YEARS, and is a champion dancer and dance teacher.
Too bad if none of you have achieved what Bendy has, or maybe you just wish you had a fraction of the talent. Either way, y'all need to wind your necks in - everyone is entitled to their opinion and tough shit if you don't agree. There's no call for personal attacks and might I remind you, you're all breaching the site T&Cs by carrying out these attacks and I will have no problem reporting any and all posts I don't like the tone of. So if you get a ban or suspension, you might have me to thank.
These attacks on bendy, to me, stink of some silly women frothing at the gash over some lantern-jawed OAF and taking someone else's negative opinion personally.
Bendy is more than entitled to her opinion and it is clearly a far better-informed opinion than those slating her. And as for the comment about her showing off, that's jealousy pure and simple. Bendy can speak with AUTHORITY about Tony because she knows him personally, has done for YEARS, and is a champion dancer and dance teacher.
Too bad if none of you have achieved what Bendy has, or maybe you just wish you had a fraction of the talent. Either way, y'all need to wind your necks in - everyone is entitled to their opinion and tough shit if you don't agree. There's no call for personal attacks and might I remind you, you're all breaching the site T&Cs by carrying out these attacks and I will have no problem reporting any and all posts I don't like the tone of. So if you get a ban or suspension, you might have me to thank.
Originally Posted by bendymixer:
“just calling him by his GIVEN name and the name I have always adressed him as when I've met him you DON't really think people who know him call him ANTON do you?? and if you think a person being called their GIVEN name in an insuilt - words fail me!!!”
“just calling him by his GIVEN name and the name I have always adressed him as when I've met him you DON't really think people who know him call him ANTON do you?? and if you think a person being called their GIVEN name in an insuilt - words fail me!!!”
Actually, his given name, ie what appears on his birth certificate, is Anthony. Tony is a nickname. If you insist on pedantry at least be accurate. And actually, I don't think, I know from hearing it with my own ears that people who know him rather better than you ( Erin, his girlfriend, Lilia and Darren - all off camera in social circumstances ) call him Anton (and, on occasion, other things but not Tony!!) so let's give it a rest and get back to insulting his jive, if you must.
Originally Posted by Bobby'sgirl:
“You (Bendymixer) very rarely have a good word to say about him, does it go back to your dancing days. I wonder did he ever beat you in a comp and you still can't get over it. What has he done to upset you so”
“You (Bendymixer) very rarely have a good word to say about him, does it go back to your dancing days. I wonder did he ever beat you in a comp and you still can't get over it. What has he done to upset you so”
Originally Posted by Bobby'sgirl:
“...you do seem to pop up every so often to vent your spleen over him.”
“...you do seem to pop up every so often to vent your spleen over him.”
Originally Posted by bonjovibabe71:
“Yup, Bendy never misses an opportunity to vent her spleen about Anton
. I have rarely seen anyone with such a vendetta against him. Who cares if Anton wasn't nice to her brother 100 years ago:yawn:, that's in the past, but bendy & her brother seem to have a real problem leaving it there 
.”
“Yup, Bendy never misses an opportunity to vent her spleen about Anton
. I have rarely seen anyone with such a vendetta against him. Who cares if Anton wasn't nice to her brother 100 years ago:yawn:, that's in the past, but bendy & her brother seem to have a real problem leaving it there .”
Why on earth are you two so relentlessly sour? It's bizarre (& against forum policy surely?) that you're singling Bendymixer out for your particular brand of unpleasantness, when there are 9 posts on the first page of this thread alone, saying the same thing!
I know you Anton fans have to stick together (talk about an exclusive club!) but try not to be so personal. OK?
Originally Posted by missfrankiecat:
“Actually, his given name, ie what appears on his birth certificate, is Anthony. Tony is a nickname. If you insist on pedantry at least be accurate. And actually, I don't think, I know from hearing it with my own ears that people who know him rather better than you ( Erin, his girlfriend, Lilia and Darren - all off camera in social circumstances ) call him Anton (and, on occasion, other things but not Tony!!) so let's give it a rest and get back to insulting his jive, if you must.”
“Actually, his given name, ie what appears on his birth certificate, is Anthony. Tony is a nickname. If you insist on pedantry at least be accurate. And actually, I don't think, I know from hearing it with my own ears that people who know him rather better than you ( Erin, his girlfriend, Lilia and Darren - all off camera in social circumstances ) call him Anton (and, on occasion, other things but not Tony!!) so let's give it a rest and get back to insulting his jive, if you must.
”
I'm quite sure that bendy, who has known TONY for years, wouldn't be calling him Tony unless that's what he was known as. In fact I know of another dance champion who also calls him this so it's not a bendy exclusive.
Furthermore, how about you take your own advice and get back to arguing over dancing with bendy rather than nitpicking over every post.
Originally Posted by Three Left Feet:
“OK, so basically you were just showing off that you know him personally and know that he's really called Tony, whilst the majority of the rest of the punters here only know him by his stage name because they've never met him.”
“OK, so basically you were just showing off that you know him personally and know that he's really called Tony, whilst the majority of the rest of the punters here only know him by his stage name because they've never met him.”
You're missing the point here a bit ('Anton' fans, bless!) Bren has dealt with him professionally, she's taking of personal experience.
She is also more than qualified to discuss his lack of jiving ability and really, isn't that the point of this thread?
Originally Posted by elizabethjo:
“Are you having a laugh or just pretending.
Anton Du Beke alias Tony Beke as he was originally.
His Jive was the worst latin he has ever done over all the series, he is getting worse rather than better.
Heaven help his Saaamba this week, he thinks it is a silly dance so dont think he will take it seriously.”
“Are you having a laugh or just pretending.
Anton Du Beke alias Tony Beke as he was originally.
His Jive was the worst latin he has ever done over all the series, he is getting worse rather than better.
Heaven help his Saaamba this week, he thinks it is a silly dance so dont think he will take it seriously.”
Anthony Paul Beke to be accurate.
Originally Posted by Daisy_M:
“I do feel sorry for Laila. She drew the short straw with the partnership selection. I believe (as has been said on here already) that she would do a lot better with one of the other pros. She definitely has ability so a partner who is a good teacher and can bring the best of of his celebrity would do a great job with her. Unfortunately for her, Anton is not that type of pro.
I think his shortcomings have been exposed this year when he finally got a decent partner (no disrespect to his prior ones).”
“I do feel sorry for Laila. She drew the short straw with the partnership selection. I believe (as has been said on here already) that she would do a lot better with one of the other pros. She definitely has ability so a partner who is a good teacher and can bring the best of of his celebrity would do a great job with her. Unfortunately for her, Anton is not that type of pro.
I think his shortcomings have been exposed this year when he finally got a decent partner (no disrespect to his prior ones).”
She strikes me as unlikely to let herself go and do any of the raunchier dances. She will fo well at floating around in pretty dresses doing ballroom.
But I do like them as a partnership and I vote for them every week.
Originally Posted by FoxtrotOscar:
“Looks to me like some people are terribly JELLUS of not knowing Tony personally. Well, it's nothing to hanker after, believe you me.
These attacks on bendy, to me, stink of some silly women frothing at the gash over some lantern-jawed OAF and taking someone else's negative opinion personally.
Bendy is more than entitled to her opinion and it is clearly a far better-informed opinion than those slating her. And as for the comment about her showing off, that's jealousy pure and simple. Bendy can speak with AUTHORITY about Tony because she knows him personally, has done for YEARS, and is a champion dancer and dance teacher.
Too bad if none of you have achieved what Bendy has, or maybe you just wish you had a fraction of the talent. Either way, y'all need to wind your necks in - everyone is entitled to their opinion and tough shit if you don't agree. There's no call for personal attacks and might I remind you, you're all breaching the site T&Cs by carrying out these attacks and I will have no problem reporting any and all posts I don't like the tone of. So if you get a ban or suspension, you might have me to thank.”
“Looks to me like some people are terribly JELLUS of not knowing Tony personally. Well, it's nothing to hanker after, believe you me.
These attacks on bendy, to me, stink of some silly women frothing at the gash over some lantern-jawed OAF and taking someone else's negative opinion personally.
Bendy is more than entitled to her opinion and it is clearly a far better-informed opinion than those slating her. And as for the comment about her showing off, that's jealousy pure and simple. Bendy can speak with AUTHORITY about Tony because she knows him personally, has done for YEARS, and is a champion dancer and dance teacher.
Too bad if none of you have achieved what Bendy has, or maybe you just wish you had a fraction of the talent. Either way, y'all need to wind your necks in - everyone is entitled to their opinion and tough shit if you don't agree. There's no call for personal attacks and might I remind you, you're all breaching the site T&Cs by carrying out these attacks and I will have no problem reporting any and all posts I don't like the tone of. So if you get a ban or suspension, you might have me to thank.”
Foxtrot,
You're missing the point, but at the same time demonstrating the real reason people call him Tony on this Forum (which relates to Strictly Come Dancing, in which he performs as Anton, which is the obvious thing to call him by on this Forum).
It's got s*d all to do with his "real" name. You refer to him a lantern-jawed OAF. Not just an oaf, but an OAF. You guys clearly dislike him intensely, which you're perfectly at liberty to do, but don't try and pretend that calling him Tony is anything other than a cheap shot.
Originally Posted by missfrankiecat:
“Actually, his given name, ie what appears on his birth certificate, is Anthony. Tony is a nickname”
“Actually, his given name, ie what appears on his birth certificate, is Anthony. Tony is a nickname”
The point is that people who have known him professionally years ago before he 'made it big' (as it were) on the tellybox, have always called him Tony.
The fact that he decided to give himself a bit of a pretentious stage name and insists that family and loved ones call him by this adopted name (HAS he changed it by deed poll?) is irrelevant, he's still plain old Tony to them, old habits and all that.
Maybe we should refer to him from now on as the dancer formerly called Tony?
There is an old saying...
"If you're going to insult me then at least get my name right".
If he wants to be called Anton then who are you to call him something different?
Some right wing politicians / commentators used to refer to Tony Benn as "Viscount Stansgate" (his name before he renounced his hereditary peerage).
Some left wing politicians / commentators refer to George Osbourne as Gideon (the name he was christened, but he's changed his name by Deed Poll to George.)
The purpose is simply to insult or ridicule and it's not pretty, irrespective of your dancing qualifications!
"If you're going to insult me then at least get my name right".
If he wants to be called Anton then who are you to call him something different?
Some right wing politicians / commentators used to refer to Tony Benn as "Viscount Stansgate" (his name before he renounced his hereditary peerage).
Some left wing politicians / commentators refer to George Osbourne as Gideon (the name he was christened, but he's changed his name by Deed Poll to George.)
The purpose is simply to insult or ridicule and it's not pretty, irrespective of your dancing qualifications!
Originally Posted by Three Left Feet:
“The purpose is simply to insult or ridicule and it's not pretty, irrespective of your dancing qualifications!”
“The purpose is simply to insult or ridicule and it's not pretty, irrespective of your dancing qualifications!”
True, it is kind of petty, but I think most people call people they know by the original name they know them by so it doens't apply to ALL the people calling him Tony. And if someone were really dead set on ridiculing him they'd just call him Anton the Burk. It uses the name he prefers to be known by and is more accurate.
Originally Posted by Three Left Feet:
“The purpose is simply to insult or ridicule and it's not pretty, irrespective of your dancing qualifications!”
“The purpose is simply to insult or ridicule and it's not pretty, irrespective of your dancing qualifications!”
Where is your logic? Not an insult at all. If you Google his name then most of the news stories/blogs will say something like
Anton du Beke, whose real name is Tony Beak/Beke etc
It's only an insult because YOU think it is as you're so defensive of him, avid fans I guess, do that.
I must admit i'm not keen on Anton but it would have been a nice change to see him do well and then bow out of the show this year.
I know he's known as the ballroom king but i've never got this, I don't think his ballroom is any better than a lot of the other male pros, however his Latin is a whole lot worse than theirs.
In fact in the pro quickstep a few weeks ago I thought Vincent and Flavias section was far better than Antons efforts (love Erin though)
I know he's known as the ballroom king but i've never got this, I don't think his ballroom is any better than a lot of the other male pros, however his Latin is a whole lot worse than theirs.
In fact in the pro quickstep a few weeks ago I thought Vincent and Flavias section was far better than Antons efforts (love Erin though)
Originally Posted by Vodka_Drinka:
“I know he is a ballroom specialist..... but oh dear
That was awful, he looks so amateur next to other male pro's. I remember him jiving with Jan Ravens and that was dire as well.
I like him as a personality, but his latin is dire.”
“I know he is a ballroom specialist..... but oh dear
That was awful, he looks so amateur next to other male pro's. I remember him jiving with Jan Ravens and that was dire as well.
I like him as a personality, but his latin is dire.”
I completely agree - I don't understand how he's qualified to teach latin at all. However, I don't agree with him being nice as a person. As well all know, he has no problem using racist words, he is condescending to the women, and apparently said to Laila that she should turn her (backless) dress round and then they'd all have a good time.
Originally Posted by See:
“I must admit i'm not keen on Anton but it would have been a nice change to see him do well and then bow out of the show this year.
I know he's known as the ballroom king but i've never got this, I don't think his ballroom is any better than a lot of the other male pros, however his Latin is a whole lot worse than theirs.
In fact in the pro quickstep a few weeks ago I thought Vincent and Flavias section was far better than Antons efforts (love Erin though)”
“I must admit i'm not keen on Anton but it would have been a nice change to see him do well and then bow out of the show this year.
I know he's known as the ballroom king but i've never got this, I don't think his ballroom is any better than a lot of the other male pros, however his Latin is a whole lot worse than theirs.
In fact in the pro quickstep a few weeks ago I thought Vincent and Flavias section was far better than Antons efforts (love Erin though)”
On achievement you are right Vincent and Flavia are better at ballroom
Originally Posted by Starry_Sky:
“I completely agree - I don't understand how he's qualified to teach latin at all. However, I don't agree with him being nice as a person. As well all know, he has no problem using racist words, he is condescending to the women, and apparently said to Laila that she should turn her (backless) dress round and then they'd all have a good time.”
“I completely agree - I don't understand how he's qualified to teach latin at all. However, I don't agree with him being nice as a person. As well all know, he has no problem using racist words, he is condescending to the women, and apparently said to Laila that she should turn her (backless) dress round and then they'd all have a good time.”
Well you're entitled to voice an ill-informed opinion based, I am sure, on a considerable amount of time spent with him?
Isn't it funny how he's so popular with his fellow pro-dancers? Is it strange that Erin has danced happily with him for over 12 years and had him as Man of Honour at her wedding earlier this year? Why is it that your intimate kowledge of Anton and his personality is so at odds with the opinions held by, say, Lesley Garrett, Esther Rantzen, Patsy Palmer, Kate Garraway, Jan Ravens and Gillian Taylforth? Then again, they spent so little time with him that I'm sure their opinions count for nothing, So let's ignore Lesley going on radio and TV to defend him and Esther, Kate and Jan doing the same in print.
And what's the 'apparently' about the dress? He said it on air in front of 8.5m people. And how many complaints has the BBC received? And didn't Laila herself burst out laughing at it? And hasn't the Daily Mail now pulled its fabricated story about it?
Originally Posted by The Dandy:
“If you Google his name then most of the news stories/blogs will say something like
Anton du Beke, whose real name is Tony Beak/Beke etc
It's only an insult because YOU think it is as you're so defensive of him, avid fans I guess, do that.”
“If you Google his name then most of the news stories/blogs will say something like
Anton du Beke, whose real name is Tony Beak/Beke etc
It's only an insult because YOU think it is as you're so defensive of him, avid fans I guess, do that.”
Likewise, if you google Tony Benn and George Osbourne you'll find zillions of articles referring to their former names. This doesn't change the fact that they now go by other names. Ditto Anton.
My logic is that if you choose to call someone by a name that they now specifically don't use in preference for another name then you are insulting that person.
For the record, as I've said earlier, I think Anton is a pillock and the sooner he leaves our TV screens the better.
You could do with reading Dale Carnegie's "How to win friends and influence people" where he observes...
"Remember that a person's name is to that person the sweetest and most important sound in any language".
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