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bruce -craig -brendon - fiasco
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CaroUK
19-10-2009
Originally Posted by washboard:
“I took it as a reference to the motion of Jo's dance. Whilst I can see why you are taking the view that both Bruno and Craig chose the wrong creatures to use as similes, I simply don't see any suggestion that anyone meant that Jo was "bigger" or "less elegant" than a grasshopper.

(That said, when you see them in slow-motion, both grasshoppers and kangaroos look - IMO - incredibly elegant and light and flowing in their movements).

Having watched Jo's dance, I am left with an indelible memory of a slow, gentle, up and down motion.

Like my indelible memories of Skippy (the Bush Kangaroo) going to the rescue. Or natural history programme's showing us the slow motion version of a grasshopper's movements.

Jo's dance was skippy.

Any of the judges could have said that, and left it at that.

Just as they could have commented on any of the other dances in a couple of words, and left it at that.

That would certainly help the X Factor raise its ratings.

(And, I note that only one couple left during the comments.)”

As a huge fan of Skippy (viewed on an old 18" B&W telly in the 60s) - I stand by the comment that Jo's dancing did not resemble Skippy's bounding alone across the bush in any way.

Yes her dance was "skippy" - an adjective used to describe the wrong sort of movement in many ballroom dances, but Jo's dance resembled neither a kangaroo or grasshopper in the way she moved so the comment was inappropriate. I got the impression that Craig didn't think Bruno's comparison to a small insect was nasty enough so he picked another , larger and more ungainly creature to use in his critique.

Any judge worth their salt could find something to say about it in more than a couple of words without resorting to making personal and confidence shattering comments to a woman who is clearly trying her hardest to deliver her dance each week.

I got tired of listening to Craig insulting the weaker dancers week after week long ago. Not everyone has a natural sense of rhythm and not everyone can dance - even with many hours of one to one training from a pro dancer. He makes valid points in his comments but its a crying shame that he feels his role is Mr Nasty which requires him to make such nasty, insulting and sneering comments.

I remember Dennis Taylor challenging Craig to play snooker in that series - Craig was as crap at that as Dennis was at dancing - its just a shame that the snooker players on the panel didn't give Craig a taste of his own medicine then so he could see the effect he has on the celebs.

I'm sure that the pros must stand there seething as he demolishes any confidence their celeb might have had - and having to waste time rebuilding that each week only takes away from the dance training time
The_abbott
19-10-2009
Originally Posted by CaroUK:
“Bruce should never have leapt on the bandwagon though - it was neither the time or place for that”

agree - that is LEN'S job as head judge but did he do anything? no.

He is only head judge when it suits him. He should have said I'll sort it out later.
Monkseal
19-10-2009
My problem with it wasn't so much what he said as the fact that he addressed it to Bruno, not to Jo, and therefore it rather came across as though he was acting like she wasn't there. They're supposed to be judges, not an comic insult writers room.

I'm not sure Brendan "storming off" (which he does about 7 times a series now, because it's his gimmick, just like Vincent waggling his eyebrow and being a sleaze) is any more ridiculous than when he started yelling at Craig about how rude he was and what an idiot he is a few weeks ago.
musicangel
19-10-2009
Originally Posted by catt:
“i am furious about the way craig was treated
brebdon was soooooooo rude
and bruce was bloody out of order
why was craigs comment any more personal than brunos ? it wasnt
i think gunning for craig is feeling like school bullying and i for one am complaining about it

sigh @ strictly”

Bullying at CRAIG!!! OMG!!! must be first time you have ever watched scd!? this series alone he has insulted and undermined so many of the couples! bruce and brendan were right! and it was nice to see them standing up and not to just stand there and take insults after hours of painful practice!! it was awful, and I applaude brendan and bruce!!
IvanIV
19-10-2009
Here's what Arlene thought:

http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/strictly...t-jo-wood.html
bobbedazzler
19-10-2009
Bruce is a hypocrite ...his 'joke' about the breakdown of Jo's marriage was far more personal than anything Craig said to her!!!!
samiskim
19-10-2009
Originally Posted by Paace:
“Bruno, Craig, Brendan and Bruce were all OTT. The actual comments from Bruno and Craig are:

Bruno: " It was too skippy, you skipped through all of this, it was like a grasshopper really, I'm sorry but thats the truth"
Craig: " Don't know about grasshopper I'd say bush kangaroo actually darling-pause-I don't want to destroy your confidence my love"
Brendan flounces off
Len: "That going a bit too far"
Craig: "I don't think it is"
Len: "You don't have to be personal"

Bruce was wrong. The remarks were not personal just a bit over dramatic in the description.
It's Bruce's remarks about Ali and Brian and last week about Jo which were nasty and personal.”


In my opinion when someone says they don't want to destroy your confidence - they normally do. Brendan was perfectly justified in his actions. He behaved like a gentleman which is more than I can say for Craig or Bruno. Bruce is the host, whether you like him or not, and is there to keep order. If Len, the Chief Judge, thought the Viper Queen was going too far and being personal, then he was.
washboard
19-10-2009
Originally Posted by CaroUK:
“As a huge fan of Skippy (viewed on an old 18" B&W telly in the 60s) - I stand by the comment that Jo's dancing did not resemble Skippy's bounding alone across the bush in any way.

Yes her dance was "skippy" - an adjective used to describe the wrong sort of movement in many ballroom dances, but Jo's dance resembled neither a kangaroo or grasshopper in the way she moved so the comment was inappropriate. I got the impression that Craig didn't think Bruno's comparison to a small insect was nasty enough so he picked another , larger and more ungainly creature to use in his critique. ”

We shall have to agree to disagree on this one - in particular the part of your post which I have put in bold.

I stand by the view expressed on another thread in response to posts on this subject, including yours:

http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/forums/s...=#post36113201

I also remain of the view that Brendan has adopted the 'knight in shining armour' persona this year, rather than the 'bad boy' one. In addition, I remain disconcerted that a person who, according to reports, told a previous partner that she would be a cr*p sh*g is, supposedly, so outraged by a play on words.

For my money, Bruno's 'demonstration' of Jo's dancing (pounding his hand heavily on the judges' desk) was the worst part of the comments, and the part which I personally feel was deserving of serious criticism. Not the word play.
Samsara
19-10-2009
There are dead certs with SCD every year (just as there is on the XFactor, just different ones)...

There will be the fun clown act that drives the Judges mad that the public will keep in.
There will be the 'longest journey taken'
There will be the outstanding
There will be Craig's remarks
There will be Bruce and Tess (unfortunately)
There will be Brendon's hissy fit.

The contestants know this when they sign up for it, so they are holding their hands out for Craig's remarks (incidentally Bruno can be just as cutting but he does his insane laugh so it doesn't look quite so offensive(... don't go on the programme if you are too sensitive!
Craig.. while often cutting, generally gives good advice I feel.
soapgirlhere
19-10-2009
OP I totally agree with you.

These threads should be merged.
oliver mchew
19-10-2009
Originally Posted by katmobile:
“I was appalled by the way Craig was treated and I'm appalled at the way the judges over-marked Jo possibly as a result of this. I felt possibly even Craig was influenced by it giving Jo a 5 when Joe and Craig got 4 - she was as bad if not worse than them. It really cheeses me off how Jo plays the 'poor lickle me' card and everyone falls for it I had sympathy for her at first but now I want her gone and especially want her gone before she stays in at the expense of someone with some talent. I felt so sorry for Zoe and James being in the dance-off when they did not deserve it and hope this doesn't knock Zoe's confidence and she can see for the stupidity that is a part of the public vote sometimes and not a reflection on her. James looked livid and I don't blame him.”

Did u vote for Zoe and James.
catt
19-10-2009
Originally Posted by musicangel:
“Bullying at CRAIG!!! OMG!!! must be first time you have ever watched scd!? this series alone he has insulted and undermined so many of the couples! bruce and brendan were right! and it was nice to see them standing up and not to just stand there and take insults after hours of painful practice!! it was awful, and I applaude brendan and bruce!!”

exclamation marks a go go!
someone feels strongly eh?

ps ive watched it since series 2. ok?
millie3
20-10-2009
It's all so predictable. Brendan will have a strop and a load of his fans will come on to stand up for him. Last year these very people told us we should be voting on the dancing only and berated anyone who voted for John Sergant. Now they are voting to keep Brendan in even though his partner is just as bad.
I can't believe anyone who says they are voting for her because of her dancing!
CaroUK
20-10-2009
I wouldn't waste good money on voting Jo and Brendan (I have never liked him from series 1)- but I think he made a good point on ITT.

All the pros will accept CONSTRUCTIVE criticism or points to work on - but there is no need for the judges to make personal comments or insults to the celebs. He also rightly pointed out that Craig had already made a bitchy comment about Jo on ITT on Friday (which he did - he said that he thought her dress would hide her dreadful footwork or words to that effect).
Ignazio
20-10-2009
Originally Posted by millie3:
“It's all so predictable. Brendan will have a strop and a load of his fans will come on to stand up for him. Last year these very people told us we should be voting on the dancing only and berated anyone who voted for John Sergant. Now they are voting to keep Brendan in even though his partner is just as bad.
I can't believe anyone who says they are voting for her because of her dancing!”

And the Brendan haters will come on with their childish epithets and and the wheels on the bus go round!

I haven't nor will I vote for Jo - but that doesn't give Craig carte blanche to pepper his critiques with unconstructive comments in an attempt to gain attention.

btw just what did he mean in comparing Jo to Skippy the kangaroo.

The only thing skippy about him was his name, not his movements. Like all kangas he jumped!
Tissy
20-10-2009
Originally Posted by millie3:
“It's all so predictable. Brendan will have a strop and a load of his fans will come on to stand up for him. Last year these very people told us we should be voting on the dancing only and berated anyone who voted for John Sergant. Now they are voting to keep Brendan in even though his partner is just as bad.
I can't believe anyone who says they are voting for her because of her dancing!”

Same old thing year after year :yawn:
allisonbm2
20-10-2009
Originally Posted by Ignazio:
“And the Brendan haters will come on with their childish epithets and and the wheels on the bus go round!

I haven't nor will I vote for Jo - but that doesn't give Craig carte blanche to pepper his critiques with unconstructive comments in an attempt to gain attention.

btw just what did he mean in comparing Jo to Skippy the kangaroo.

The only thing skippy about him was his name, not his movements. Like all kangas he jumped!”

Says everything that needs to be said
millie3
20-10-2009
Originally Posted by Ignazio:
“And the Brendan haters will come on with their childish epithets and and the wheels on the bus go round!

I haven't nor will I vote for Jo - but that doesn't give Craig carte blanche to pepper his critiques with unconstructive comments in an attempt to gain attention.

btw just what did he mean in comparing Jo to Skippy the kangaroo.

The only thing skippy about him was his name, not his movements. Like all kangas he jumped!”

Well, when it comes to attention seeking Brendan's the expert! Who is it that goes on any number of reality shows for that very purpose. Even going so far as to kill a chicken with a catapult.
Ignazio
20-10-2009
Originally Posted by millie3:
“Well, when it comes to attention seeking Brendan's the expert! Who is it that goes on any number of reality shows for that very purpose. Even going so far as to kill a chicken with a catapult.”

Surely your reference to reality tv and chickens is a straw man argument.

The subject matter is SCD.
millie3
20-10-2009
Originally Posted by Ignazio:
“Surely your reference to reality tv and chickens is a straw man argument.

The subject matter is SCD.”

Well it was you that said Craig was critical in order to gain attention. The argument was used to illustrate that attention seeking is not confined to Craig.
katmobile
20-10-2009
Originally Posted by oliver mchew:
“Did u vote for Zoe and James.”

No I didn't but I didn't have time to we were on half an hours delay because my daughters bedtime is around that time.

However I guess the critisism is valid as I would have voted to save Chris and Craig had I had a vote as I was livid that Jo got more marks than Craig just because the judges were taken in by the 'ah bless' factor - except for Craig that is and ironically Bruno. I felt at the time that Craig was bullied into giving Jo a slightly higher mark than he would have done too but I could be wrong about that. Sadly you don't get an everyone but them vote without sending your phone bill through the roof.

I wasn't daft enough to vote for Jo at least.
Ignazio
20-10-2009
Originally Posted by millie3:
“Well it was you that said Craig was critical in order to gain attention. The argument was used to illustrate that attention seeking is not confined to Craig.”

Attention within the confines of SCD!
CaroUK
20-10-2009
Originally Posted by katmobile:
“No I didn't but I didn't have time to we were on half an hours delay because my daughters bedtime is around that time.

However I guess the critisism is valid as I would have voted to save Chris and Craig had I had a vote as I was livid that Jo got more marks than Craig just because the judges were taken in by the 'ah bless' factor - except for Craig that is and ironically Bruno. I felt at the time that Craig was bullied into giving Jo a slightly higher mark than he would have done too but I could be wrong about that. Sadly you don't get an everyone but them vote without sending your phone bill through the roof.

I wasn't daft enough to vote for Jo at least.”

Yep you are wrong about that - the judges enter their scores into the number pads on their desks as the couple finish dancing so the graphics people have time to do their stuff to get the marks on screen during the comments and Tesspit section. The marks given won't have been influenced by the incident.

That said - Craig gave a 5 (quite good for him!) for J&B's VW - so he obviously just felt a need to pass a catty remark given that Bruno had given him an opening.
katmobile
20-10-2009
Originally Posted by CaroUK:
“Yep you are wrong about that - the judges enter their scores into the number pads on their desks as the couple finish dancing so the graphics people have time to do their stuff to get the marks on screen during the comments and Tesspit section. The marks given won't have been influenced by the incident.

That said - Craig gave a 5 (quite good for him!) for J&B's VW - so he obviously just felt a need to pass a catty remark given that Bruno had given him an opening.”

5 isn't that great so it's not like he didn't have issues with the dance. Look everyone who votes for the duffers says that SCD is an entertainment show as much as a dancing show why doesn't that apply to the judges comments too? Yes the judges are there to provide constructive critisism but their primary function is pass judgement in an entertaining but fair fashion. Surely it's down to the pros to encourage and give their celebs tips on how to improve their dancing (if they can that is).
Lorelei Lee
20-10-2009
Craig didn't get a chance to make any positive points because Brendan cut his comments short. Craig usually gives his overall opinion and then notes points that the celebs can work on. So anyone castigating him for a lack of constructive criticism's missed the point a bit.

I didn't see much wrong with Bruce's reaction, and I doubt Craig did either. I thought Brendan's reaction was funny at the time, but the more I think about it, the more irritating it is.
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