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Are Chris and Ola being undermarked?


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Old 18-10-2009, 15:43
footygirl
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I agree that they were marginally better than Laila & Anton whom I'd have given a 5 (as did most of the judges).
So was Len marking out of sympathy- and lost his objectivity
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Old 18-10-2009, 15:50
kopy-lover
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I think Chris was slightly under-marked last night.

He did have problems keeping time and those silly knee-slides and "air-guitar" ( I believe its called) were embarrassing, irrelevant, and unnecessary.
But he did have plenty of energy and bounce that others lacked and there was a good amount of genuine Jive content.

I thought Craig was also slightly under-marked.

However in the end the low marking helped them both, as those at the bottom get the sympathy vote.

The hopeless Joe Calzaghe, not at the bottom, missed his sympathy vote and rightly went out.
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Old 18-10-2009, 16:06
Lorelei Lee
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This is helping me get some perspective, ta

I do think that while the judges may believe Chris should be doing better than he has on Saturdays, he's being marked slightly under the standard he's producing, where others who under-deliver are being encouraged by slight over-marking.

That jive wasn't perfect by any means but the timing issues didn't detract that much from its fun and content. I think the judges could've managed a few more marks for personality, especially when so many other jives came out a little flat.

Putting it on the same level as Laila and Anton was frankly laughable, when Laila's timing and content issues were far more pronounced. And marking Jo Wood higher - words fail me.
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Old 18-10-2009, 16:13
-Sid-
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This is helping me get some perspective, ta

I do think that while the judges may believe Chris should be doing better than he has on Saturdays, he's being marked slightly under the standard he's producing, where others who under-deliver are being encouraged by slight over-marking.

That jive wasn't perfect by any means but the timing issues didn't detract that much from its fun and content. I think the judges could've managed a few more marks for personality, especially when so many other jives came out a little flat.

Putting it on the same level as Laila and Anton was frankly laughable, when Laila's timing and content issues were far more pronounced. And marking Jo Wood higher - words fail me.
Were they though?

There were tiny moments when Laila showed promise (they were few and far between) but she wasn't completely hopeless.

The quality of Chris' Jive was ever so slightly better overall, I agree, but he lost timing and messed up his steps a fair bit too.

They are both amongst my favourites but neither impressed me and I failed to see one as clearly better than the other. Len should have awarded a 6 instead of a 7 to Laila but that's the only discrepancy as far as I'm concerned.
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Old 18-10-2009, 16:26
dogsdinner
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I feel that C and O are not necessarily undermarked but are certainly undermarked compared to some of the others. I really like them and think that Chris has some real talent there but mistakes are letting him down. But at least they look as if they are dancing the same dance together unlike some of the other couples. Even with the mistakes they have a real rapport and Chris has great energy and attitude.
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Old 21-10-2009, 13:16
mr.bojangles
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That jive wasn't perfect by any means but the timing issues didn't detract that much from its fun and content.
But the content was missing in serious chunks because he clearly forgot what he was doing. Energy in abundance, but you have to keep doing the jive...

I agree though that it was more exciting than some of the more technically adept jives.

As for the Laila thing, I'm not too concerned about it as for me at least two of the more competent dancers are through, even if they both did mess up royally.
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Old 21-10-2009, 13:33
claire2281
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As others have pointed out I think Chris is 'suffering' because of how the judges are marking him.

It's not his raw marks that are hurting him but how he's being marked in comparison with others. He was clearly better than Laila and should have been marked as such. It appeared though that she was marked on the basis that it wasn't as bad as they'd feared, whereas he was marked on the fact that it wasn't as good as they'd expected.

The marking should be done based upon how other couples on the night have done (which is why I can't get two upset about Ricky's 10 - he did look better than jade who'd already got a 9...). In Chris's case this doesn't seem to be happening.
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Old 21-10-2009, 13:45
bobbla
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Well then it is time they started being equally as kind/harsh on everyone. Ali and Laila were both overmarked last night- God knows why Bruno thought Ali desewrved an 8- it only warrasnted a 7
And yet Len gave Ali a 7 and gave the same to Jo and Laila who were dire in comparison so in that case you can say that Ali was undermarked.

An argument can be found for or against any contestant (depending on your likes/dislikes) to rage against the scoring system.

The problem is that as long as the judges are only marking out of 10 and most of the time forgetting they have paddles 1-5 then you are always going to have discrepancies/perceived judges favourites/unfair marks.
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Old 21-10-2009, 13:47
footygirl
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Bit it seems as if the chosen ones are being marked more generously even if they mess up badly

Look at Ali's jive she went wrong- and still she got two 8s. 6 or 7 would have been a more realistic mark. They can't have one rule for some and one for others
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Old 21-10-2009, 14:34
bobbla
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Bit it seems as if the chosen ones are being marked more generously even if they mess up badly

Look at Ali's jive she went wrong- and still she got two 8s. 6 or 7 would have been a more realistic mark. They can't have one rule for some and one for others
That was my point. Hardly any of the marking is consistent and thats mainly due to the restricted marking system.

I don't think theres favouritism going on. It just sometimes feels that way depending on who you support and how unfairly you think they've been marked.

For example as an Ali and Brian fan i can argue that it was unfair that Natalie was marked higher (by Craig). I also think it was unfair that Jo and Laila were given the same mark by Len when she was vastly superior to them, regardless of a mistake.

The point is moot though because as i said its the narrow scoring band thats at fault more than anything or anyone.
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Old 21-10-2009, 15:59
thenetworkbabe
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it makes me feel sorry for people like Chris. Maybe his 22 this week would look more justified if other celebrities (Ali in particular, both Rickys Zoe and I'd actually put Natalie in there) would be marked to the standard they actually produce rather than the standard they are supposedly capable of. I personally prefer Chris and Tuffers to Ricky G. His jive really upset me last night - 25 for a series of bad kick ball changes and I was then left waiting all night to see Chris and Tuffers reap the consequences and boy did they reap the consequences - although Tuffers making that huge mistake by lifting Katya did not help his cause.
Thye are marked to the standard they produced. Ali's routines are vastly more difficult - she should score more even with errors doing it. Rickyeven on half training and with errors is still top 3 - he has more content in half a routine than any other male has in a full one. Zoe does simpler routines without obvious errors and improvises well when she makes them. You can't give the adequate dancers making mistakes the same mark as the people in a different league making mistakes because they are doing something harder. Thats looking at it top down.

Looking at it from the bottom up, if they opened up their marking to make the justifiable gap between the adequate people and the poor, the poor people would be attracting a JS vote and the adequate people would be going whatever mark they get. What they are doing is working so far as even Joe has gone. The bottom of the score board isn't accurately reflecting ability - but that what happens when you are trying to live with a public vote that produced the nonsense it did last year.

Net result is that people in the middle will get squeezed - although some are being marked too near to the top 3 or 4 as others are being undermarked.
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Old 08-11-2009, 00:48
Bhoy1888
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I think slightly under marked.I say each round they have deserved about 3-4 points more.
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Old 08-11-2009, 01:18
Suirad
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Absolutely!!

Worse than Jo and Brendan, the same as Laila and Anton and only 1 mark more than Joe and Kristina last night? I thought it was ridiculous. He should have been higher than Ricky and Erin imo.

Only 1 mark higher than Lynda and Darren and Craig and Flavia last week too.

I find it bizarre.
Couldn't agree more they have been constantly undermarked,could this be manipulation by the judges if they are getting the public vote,to try and get rid of them.
Chris and Ola have the best chemistry of any couple this series,they're enjoyable and uplifting to watch,can dance,and bags of personality,which all adds up to winners for me.
I would probably swith off if it were a Ricky W and Ali final,all very intense and a tad bland when we're talking personality,and entertainment..I'm sure they're lovely people but lacking the wow factor.

Ellie
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Old 08-11-2009, 02:57
Great Dane
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I agree with OP, Chris's personality comes shining through every week. I know this has been said in other threads, but I agree with OPs who say they have really warmed to Ola this series, she seems really happy
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Old 08-11-2009, 12:46
Bhoy1888
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I agree with OP, Chris's personality comes shining through every week. I know this has been said in other threads, but I agree with OPs who say they have really warmed to Ola this series, she seems really happy
She is certainly the nicest female dancer by far
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Old 08-11-2009, 13:20
bbean
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Now, it's clear from this forum that I'm not the only one to whom Chris has endeared himself - his sparky attitude and partnership with Ola are such good fun to watch.

For me, this is coming through in their dances, which always seem to be reasonably well-executed and full of the right sort of feeling, though it's clear that there's room for improvement. Yet Chris has found himself close to the bottom of the leaderboard for the last couple of weeks.

I can't help feeling that we've seen some unbelievable dross from several couples over the last few weeks, which has nevertheless been marked higher than Chris's efforts.

Am I biased because I like them so much, or are Chris and Ola actually suffering at the hands of the judges? I need to know for my sanity!

Sorry, I don't enjoy watching his performances so tend to agree with the judges' scores. I find him a bit like a ragged nail, rough and unfinished, ie he never finishes off movements smoothly etc and I always get the impression he's just tagging along with his partner. Although, to be fair, last night's dance was decidely better and slightly more polished than it's been for the last few weeks and the scores reflected that imo.
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Old 08-11-2009, 16:42
Bhoy1888
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Sorry, I don't enjoy watching his performances so tend to agree with the judges' scores. I find him a bit like a ragged nail, rough and unfinished, ie he never finishes off movements smoothly etc and I always get the impression he's just tagging along with his partner. Although, to be fair, last night's dance was decidely better and slightly more polished than it's been for the last few weeks and the scores reflected that imo.
I think this comment shows that you don't really have the ability to judge a dancing competition properly

Don't mean to be harsh with you and I like you as a person but your comments are not suited for this
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Old 08-11-2009, 18:40
bbean
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I think this comment shows that you don't really have the ability to judge a dancing competition properly

Don't mean to be harsh with you and I like you as a person but your comments are not suited for this
You are not being harsh, just stating your opinion as am I. The only problem that arises is that obviously we do not share the same opinion.

I feel Chris is being marked fairly for his competence at dancing - and in the last few weeks I feel his performance has been adequately judged and marked, in particular, by the judges with years of dance experience behind them. I am not judging him on his personality.

I'm not sure what you mean by "my comments are not suited to this" ...commenting on a forum or this particular thread, appreciation of a person's ability to dance?
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Old 08-11-2009, 18:47
Tango Trish
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Are Chris and Ola being undermarked?


"Yeah Baby"
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Old 08-11-2009, 19:06
Bhoy1888
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You are not being harsh, just stating your opinion as am I. The only problem that arises is that obviously we do not share the same opinion.

I feel Chris is being marked fairly for his competence at dancing - and in the last few weeks I feel his performance has been adequately judged and marked, in particular, by the judges with years of dance experience behind them. I am not judging him on his personality.

I'm not sure what you mean by "my comments are not suited to this" ...commenting on a forum or this particular thread, appreciation of a person's ability to dance?
You may have an opinion all I am saying is that I dont think you would make a good judge on SCD
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Old 08-11-2009, 19:08
Fatima502
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No, actually he makes me cringe deeply. I'm surprised I'm in a minority.
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Old 08-11-2009, 19:17
-Sid-
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You may have an opinion all I am saying is that I dont think you would make a good judge on SCD
None of us who aren't qualified dancers would make a good judge!

But all our opinions are valid
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Old 08-11-2009, 19:18
Monkseal
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He's been overmarked 2 weeks running now.
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Old 08-11-2009, 19:20
Bhoy1888
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None of us who aren't qualified dancers would make a good judge!

But all our opinions are valid
Well of course they are but some are more than others I guess
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Old 08-11-2009, 19:31
bbean
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Well of course they are but some are more than others I guess
Ha you said it!

I did agree with your opinion that I wouldn't make a good judge though. It was a valid point.
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