bt vision is it worth it

ok been looking at bt vision for a month and wondering if to get it
i use to have tiscali tv which was very good till they cut me off for no reason and when they turned it back on it froze all the time so i went to sky. skys ok but theres a lot of crap on it . and i notice espn is free with bt vision
so is bt vision like tiscali tv . just now with sky im paying around 37.50 with my line rental . so can i get the same with bt like phone rental tv and bb . if its not like tiscali what is it like and what channels to you get not counting freeview .

cheers jake

oh boy... I'll let the usual crowd comment on that

however just to say, if you take a BT TV pack (bronze)

then BTV will cost you more than SKY, with only a 10gb limit on the broadband.

I hope that ends the argument there....

stuntmaster · 18-10-2009, 19:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by stuntmaster

ok been looking at bt vision for a month and wondering if to get it
i use to have tiscali tv which was very good till they cut me off for no reason and when they turned it back on it froze all the time so i went to sky. skys ok but theres a lot of crap on it . and i notice espn is free with bt vision
so is bt vision like tiscali tv . just now with sky im paying around 37.50 with my line rental . so can i get the same with bt like phone rental tv and bb . if its not like tiscali what is it like and what channels to you get not counting freeview .

cheers jake

theres no channels like tiscali. but a big VOD library.

as such its stuff you watch when you want it.

Bronze pack is cheaper than basic sky TV pack but
the broadband is more expensive, but
more widely avaliable than sky. which isn't an issue with you.

its up to you, i think Vision is worth it. Matterhorn doesn't but then again you do get free ESPN.

something sky can't offer.

just take a look at it compare the prices of the packages etc etc and then make your own judgement.

Matterhorn · 18-10-2009, 20:12

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theres no channels like tiscali. but a big VOD library.

as such its stuff you watch when you want it.

Bronze pack is cheaper than basic sky TV pack but
the broadband is more expensive, but
more widely avaliable than sky. which isn't an issue with you.

its up to you, i think Vision is worth it. Matterhorn doesn't but then again you do get free ESPN.

something sky can't offer.

just take a look at it compare the prices of the packages etc etc and then make your own judgement.

fair points..

I was just trying to stress to the OP that if they want to do it then fine but don't do it thinking it will be cheaper, because it won't be..

warrior51 · 18-10-2009, 20:52

I think its well worth considering too what other factors could come into play with any future digital viewing you may want. For instance ring BT and ask about the possibility of having additional boxes in the house for multiviewing, the possibility of expanding for linear HD viewing, the possibility for 24 linear hour sports. Im sure BT will advise on such matters, or better still go to the BT Vision website and read every detail.

jake19801957 · 18-10-2009, 21:26

so what it is . is freeview with lots of vod stuff plus espn channel .when i was with tiscali i enjoyed all the vod stuff.
i would need the unlimited BB as i spend loads of time on the net and downloading lots of stuff.

wwwebber · 18-10-2009, 21:52

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so what it is . is freeview with lots of vod stuff plus espn channel .when i was with tiscali i enjoyed all the vod stuff.
i would need the unlimited BB as i spend loads of time on the net and downloading lots of stuff.

Yes, it's just like that mate. You must be on a very basic Sky package for that money and I dont think you're on a unlimited tarriff either for your broadband unless you're on some kind of deal.

Just weigh up what you need and decide for yourself. I personally find that that the service excellent and no adverts

Matterhorn · 18-10-2009, 22:40

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so what it is . is freeview with lots of vod stuff plus espn channel .when i was with tiscali i enjoyed all the vod stuff.
i would need the unlimited BB as i spend loads of time on the net and downloading lots of stuff.

2 things..

the VOD stuff has all been on DTT or Sky, literally months before. The content is not current.

An unlimited broadband deal, plus line rental and base TV pack is going to cost you the thick end of £50..

wwwebber · 19-10-2009, 08:20

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2 things..

the VOD stuff has all been on DTT or Sky, literally months before. The content is not current.

Fortunately Matterhorn is quite wrong here. It's a very poor argument too. VOD is a concept alot of people like which Sky simply cant match.

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An unlimited broadband deal, plus line rental and base TV pack is going to cost you the thick end of £50..

Funnily enough the basic Sky package (including adverts) with unlimited broadband & ESPN also comes in at around £50 but you dont get TV Replay or the many bells & whilstles that comes with BTVision & BT BB.

Just take alook at the services yourself. It doesnt matter to me what you decide - just be in possession of the facts.

Matterhorn · 19-10-2009, 09:40

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Fortunately Matterhorn is quite wrong here. It's a very poor argument too. VOD is a concept alot of people like which Sky simply cant match.

Funnily enough the basic Sky package (including adverts) with unlimited broadband & ESPN also comes in at around £50 but you dont get TV Replay or the many bells & whilstles that comes with BTVision & BT BB.

Just take alook at the services yourself. It doesnt matter to me what you decide - just be in possession of the facts.

lol... if you are going to try and make an argument then you need to at least try and stick to the thread..

1/ My point was about content, not method of delivery and whilst you often change the argument to suit your own point I'm afraid it just shows the weakness of your point. For the record, I too think VOD is a great concept and I wish it was something Sky had. However given the choice between years old content on VOD and new stuff on linear then I know which one I and literally millions of others would choose.

2/ The OP is paying £37.50 at the moment... you really want to recommend that he ups his payment to £50? Really? I wouldn't want to mislead someone like that but it's your choice.

Replay is the only USP for BT but if (as in this case) you can have an unlimited internet connection then all the OD stuff is available via the web anyway.

We both agree that Replay is great but as you can tell by subscriber figures, we are in the minority.

wwwebber · 19-10-2009, 10:07

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1/ My point was about content, not method of delivery and whilst you often change the argument to suit your own point I'm afraid it just shows the weakness of your point. For the record, I too think VOD is a great concept and I wish it was something Sky had. However given the choice between years old content on VOD and new stuff on linear then I know which one I and literally millions of others would choose.

My points that your argument is old and weak still stand regardless. Yes, some of the content is archive material but there's a market for it and BT are fulfilling it. I had a trawl though it last week (thanks again Noise

) and as a result I'm gonna sign up to the bronze pack when I've moved house.

Quote:

2/ The OP is paying £37.50 at the moment... you really want to recommend that he ups his payment to £50? Really? I wouldn't want to mislead someone like that but it's your choice

.

I didnt recommend any such thing - my point was in reply to your own £50 subscription comment. Please keep up and pay attention - I dont think forums are your thing to be honest.

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Replay is the only USP for BT but if (as in this case) you can have an unlimited internet connection then all the OD stuff is available via the web anyway.

Wrong again matey. BTVision has many USPs - Replay, free ESPN, no adverts are just a few that I can mention off the top of my head. Also, I wouldnt condone piracy either thats not good - plus I think we both know that you cant get all the content in the way that you mention - if you could then that would make Sky even more pointless too.

scotty2808 · 19-10-2009, 10:16

Let's ignore the usual squabbling and get back to the question - is it good value.

If you want to get a reasonable 4OD/BBC/ITV Player/5OD service without the hassle of having to use a computer etc AND you want a sports channel - then it's good value.

Whether you see value in the TV Pack (which is the bone of contention with some people) - is really up to you.

All in all - TV Replay, Sports Pack and ESPN for ~£15 or less (most people are able to get it discounted for 3-6months) is very good value I think.

Other point in the opening post mentioned Broadband. The FUP is 100gig a month on option 3.

Matterhorn · 19-10-2009, 10:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by scotty2808

My points that your argument is old and weak still stand regardless. Yes, some of the content is archive material but there's a market for it and BT are fulfilling it. I had a trawl though it last week (thanks again Noise

) and as a result I'm gonna sign up to the bronze pack when I've moved house.

.

I didnt recommend any such thing - my point was in reply to your own £50 subscription comment. Please keep up and pay attention - I dont think forums are your thing to be honest.

Wrong again matey. BTVision has many USPs - Replay, free ESPN, no adverts are just a few that I can mention off the top of my head. Also, I wouldnt condone piracy either thats not good - plus I think we both know that you cant get all the content in the way that you mention - if you could then that would make Sky even more pointless too.

1/ My argument is as old and weak as the content on BTV!

With BT's subscriber figures it is hard to say there is a market for it, and no not SOME of it is archive...ALL of it is if you compare it offerings on Satellite.

2/ You told him to be in possesion of the facts. I was just re-stating those 'facts' which unbelieveably became twisted within your own post... who'd have thought it.?

3/ I'm not condoning piracy either, I was talking about Replay content... 4OD, demand Five, etc. being available via a PC.

lol, if BTV has SO many USP's then why does 'no one' want it?
Could it be that many of those USP's aren't really all that, and are only USP's to the BT hardcore...

do you not realise where the public is on this issue and that you are in massive minority? I can tell that actual facts and figures mean nothing to you but surely you can tell the difference between 400k and 9.5 mill?

Matterhorn · 19-10-2009, 10:23

Quote:

Let's ignore the usual squabbling and get back to the question - is it good value.

If you want to get a reasonable 4OD/BBC/ITV Player/5OD service without the hassle of having to use a computer etc AND you want a sports channel - then it's good value.

Whether you see value in the TV Pack (which is the bone of contention with some people) - is really up to you.

All in all - TV Replay, Sports Pack and ESPN for ~£15 or less (most people are able to get it discounted for 3-6months) is very good value I think.

Other point in the opening post mentioned Broadband. The FUP is 100gig a month on option 3.

scotty, I think the TV pack ON ITS OWN is fair value for the limited content you get.

The main issue for most people is the add on services you must have for BTV, the price and the limited bandwith on the broadband connections, and the company itself.

as I have said, a BTV basic pack with option 1 broadband costs (including) line rental in excess of £40!

Its dreadful value as a package, I don't think many sane people would argue against that when you see what is available on the market. In a Sky LLU or any LLU area then there are much better deals out there. Virgin have actually said that the flood of customers from BT recently has caused their lead times to slip.

BT should just let Vision be sold as an add on service to any ISP, the QoS argument is nonsense..

scotty2808 · 19-10-2009, 10:37

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BT should just let Vision be sold as an add on service to any ISP, the QoS argument is nonsense..

Disagree.

QoS is there to protect customers from themselves.
Imagine the following scenario. A family where perhaps the parents don't fully get how their Broadband works.

No QoS policy on the line, you are using A.N. Other ISP.
Teenage kid is maxing out the bandwidth downloading whatever, parents are trying to watch Strictly etc.

The picture stutters, it's unwatchable.

So the kid on the laptop is at fault but guaranteed they'll not see it that way. They'll call Vision support. The QoS policy is there to guarantee the stream. Without it you can't control the service.

There needs to be a mechanism so that Vision via another ISP can change the line profile on the fly.

wwwebber · 19-10-2009, 11:10

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Its dreadful value as a package, I don't think many sane people would argue against that when you see what is available on the market. In a Sky LLU or any LLU area then there are much better deals out there. Virgin have actually said that the flood of customers from BT recently has caused their lead times to slip.

BT should just let Vision be sold as an add on service to any ISP, the QoS argument is nonsense..

I dont have cable and Sky dont do VOD, replay or full re-runs of Premiership footie. You only say that the QOS argument is nonsense because it negates the point you're trying to make. Convenient.

So for me and many others it's not dreadful at all. Implying that people like me are not sane really doesnt help your potless argument.

wwwebber · 19-10-2009, 11:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by stuntmaster

1/ My argument is as old and weak as the content on BTV!

With BT's subscriber figures it is hard to say there is a market for it, and no not SOME of it is archive...ALL of it is if you compare it offerings on Satellite.

Wrong again sunshine. BT has new content that Sky doesnt - fact.

Quote:

2/ You told him to be in possesion of the facts. I was just re-stating those 'facts' which unbelieveably became twisted within your own post... who'd have thought it.?

No twisting here mate.

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3/ I'm not condoning piracy either, I was talking about Replay content... 4OD, demand Five, etc. being available via a PC.

Yeah lets all watch TV without QOS on a small computer / laptop screen - clever that.

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lol, if BTV has SO many USP's then why does 'no one' want it?
Could it be that many of those USP's aren't really all that, and are only USP's to the BT hardcore...

You said BTVision only had one USP - I proved you wrong. Next please.

Quote:

do you not realise where the public is on this issue and that you are in massive minority? I can tell that actual facts and figures mean nothing to you but surely you can tell the difference between 400k and 9.5 mill?

BTVision has to start somewhere and is a relatively young service - your point here is groundless as a result.

stuntmaster · 19-10-2009, 11:18

QoS does work, and it's not just guaranteeing the speed but also does what nVidia calls it as First packet. it makes sure that Vision packets get a high priority over other data packets resulting is a much much less packet drop out.

QoS definately works, when vision is being watched my speed up here drops to around 3meg, when it isnt being watched it shoots right upto 6 again

wwwebber · 19-10-2009, 11:23

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QoS does work, and it's not just guaranteeing the speed but also does what nVidia calls it as First packet. it makes sure that Vision packets get a high priority over other data packets resulting is a much much less packet drop out.

QoS definately works, when vision is being watched my speed up here drops to around 3meg, when it isnt being watched it shoots right upto 6 again

Yes thats how it's supposed to work and it works well, none of the web based services that Matterhorn mentions can do this - it's a very important point.

stuntmaster · 19-10-2009, 11:45

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Yes thats how it's supposed to work and it works well, none of the web based services that Matterhorn mentions can do this - it's a very important point.

to further comply, this is done at the exchange level, not at the home level.

even the BT software in the vision box wont let you download a HD film and watch VOD at the same time.

now vision would work fine on other ISP's, but if you are in a household with 3 kids, 2 mac's and 3 linux machines. you'll find those 5 pc's be downloading updates alot more frequently than windows. linux does alot of hefty kernel updates. then you got the kids who youtube, facebook, IM, itunes alot too and so the downloading will constantly be going how could vision stream video against that?

thats why theres QoS. Hopefully BT Vision support who are in here can explain this in more detail.

techsmedders · 19-10-2009, 17:43

Matterhorn, we've heard all this before from you so many times. You seem insistent you want Sky, now thats fine but you will find many people who like BTV which is why they have it.

You go on about BTV not hitting their viewer targets but what were your beloved Sky's numbers during its early days? Every service starts slow.

And my last point, I don't think I can believe anything you say or take you seriously again after this post saying that the only reason football is popular is because of Sky - utter pathetic rubbish:

Quote:

funny, there are many more cycling clubs in the Uk than there are Football clubs.....

specialist or popular?

And why is Football so popular?

ahh...the exposure given to it by a well known media company...

Wizross · 19-10-2009, 18:06

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Originally Posted by scotty2808

Wrong again sunshine. BT has new content that Sky doesnt - fact.

Which is?

Matterhorn · 19-10-2009, 18:12

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Disagree.

QoS is there to protect customers from themselves.
Imagine the following scenario. A family where perhaps the parents don't fully get how their Broadband works.

No QoS policy on the line, you are using A.N. Other ISP.
Teenage kid is maxing out the bandwidth downloading whatever, parents are trying to watch Strictly etc.

The picture stutters, it's unwatchable.

So the kid on the laptop is at fault but guaranteed they'll not see it that way. They'll call Vision support. The QoS policy is there to guarantee the stream. Without it you can't control the service.

There needs to be a mechanism so that Vision via another ISP can change the line profile on the fly.

fair points, I didn't think of multiple users within the house.

My point was that I can watch online content via my Apple TV, PS3, 360 and Wii (and standard computer) with minimum buffering, even HD stuff from iTunes with a normal line. i.e. not a QoS line or issue.

There is no immediacy need with VOD as by definition its not live, what would be the problem (via another ISP) in doing a 2 or 3 minute buffer before the program started?

I guess BT need options at this point as it clearly isn't going anywhere..

Matterhorn · 19-10-2009, 18:21

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