If ITV1 show a flagship drama on Christmas Day evening, like they often do, I wonder if STV will opt out of it?

It'd be interesting if they did, but would reduce ITV1's figures even lower than what they will probably be anyway.

It'll be interesting to see if they show David Jason's last Touch of Frost's as well.

ITV aren't exactly having a nightmare on Thursday night's. Not as good as maybe they were hoping for, but stable all the same. I see people are calling for Coronation Street to be moved back to Sunday's, but wasn't the Sunday episode the lowest rating of the week anyway?

I think starting Coronation Street at 8pm would be wise. people are used on Monday and Friday of switching from EastEnders to Coronation Street - then again, Coronation Street offers more of a lead in to an already struggling The Bill than Emmerdale would.

BBC1 had an ok night - I do think it's lazy filler scheduling to keep New Tricks on all the time. I mean, one series being repeated at a time is ok but they seem to be going through the whole back catalogue of the show. Watchdog has stabilised, and I think that is hurting Coronation Street too - the hour long show means people forget to switch at 8.30.

On an unrelated note, The Sarah Jane Adevntures did well, obviously boosted by the Doctor appearing.

Five suffered another poor night without an American drama to bail them out. BBC2 was beaten by ITV2 in the 9pm hour, than can't have happened too often? Shame, because The Restaurant did ok in the 8pm hour. Channel 4 did excellently with Katie: My Beautiful Face. The last time Katie will beat Peter for a while I should imagine.

That is my point. I will not deter from my point; the BBC is repeating an entire series of a consistent slot-winning show in a peaktime slot against a show of a similar genre trying to find its feet in a new slot and format.

I feel so sorry for The Bill because the revamp is very good. It's a very contemporary police drama now and deserves better ratings. But then it's far easier for it to decline with police drama fans opting for the "safe" option rather than trying out the repositioned Bill.

It's slightly outrageous the BBC is repeating an entire series in peaktime on a weeknight. Sorry, do we all pay a license fee to watch old material IN PEAKTIME on a WEEKDAY now?? I wouldn't mind (actually I would, the repeats issue is really bad for a non-commercial channel), if it wasn't so transparent in its genre pitching. I stand by my hunch it is warlike, bellicose scheduling, deliberately intended to weaken one of ITV's shows. Not just a "show" but a programme that has existed in some form for so long, and that is running all year round. Whatever happened to BBC providing the alternative? And since when did the BBC seek to ruin one of ITV's year-round hallmarks? (Don't fire back The Bill is not a hallmark any more, new format or no new format, new time or no new time, it's still something they COULD do reasonably well with, and they need to do well with in this commercial climate)

I'm very interested to see what replaces this New Tricks marathon on Thursday nights on BBC One. Wouldn't be surprised in the slightest if it's another repeat series of a previous series. :yawn: I'm not surprised Spooks isn't up against. I reckon it would have not beaten The Bill by much, if at all, actually. A fair amount of the Spooks audience like the 10.35pm BBC Three edition, not to mention ratings for the show have fallen - so I think that the ratings will be lower this year anyway but if it was against The Bill ratings would have fallen more, with more watching BBC Three instead.

Maybe it's payback for ITV's stupid hour-long EastEnders aggression tactics. But that doesn't make it right. At least when ITV (rarely) airs repeats in peaktime, it's against a totally different genre. e.g. Doc Martin vs BBC comedy. I refuse to be talked down at and be called "bitter" by some Pizza man, who seems to think he's the elite - or some other person telling me I'm from some GB place (anyone care to explain?).

Your insistence I've been vitriolic about Jay Hunt (took a lot not to change a letter there) is a bit odd as well, given that I have kept a lot to myself and only moaned about two examples of AGGRESSIVE scheduling. Seeing as you mentioned it, I will moan about Hunt. I can see two clear examples of warmongering tactics from this militaristic controller, one of which has succeeded, and one of which hasn't:

1. Pitching the tried-and-tested, slot-winning, ratings-busting, formidable (especially when a new series) New Tricks in a 9pm slot every week immediately after the latest series, to continue to dent The Bill (of a very similar audience base)

2. Moving Strictly later in the schedule and all one longer show in an attempt to hurt one of the struggling ITV's few revenue streams. The result? A bloated mess with Celebrity Big Brother calibre Zzzzelebrities, boring hosts, worse jokes (if even possible), a chemistry-less judging panel that stretches far too long with too much filler. Result of this? Well, it has only just retained a similar audience to last year, while The X Factor's performances are up nearly 2 million and results are up around 5 million. Unlucky Jay.

Look at Sunday nights for christ's sake. ITV airs entertainment, the BBC airs stuff for an older demographic. Both stand up very strongly, because they are for different audiences.

I could go on and on about the commercialisation of the BBC. And I'm not saying "surrender to sub-4m just to provide an alternative because we pay for it". It's a pretty recent thing all this utter nonsense and the BBC should be held to account for it.

Regarding Thursday nights, perhaps ITV should just swap the entire Tuesday and Thursday schedules round. Of it not, they should swap Emmerdale and Corrie or simply put Corrie at 8pm and lose the E'dale ep. The Bill has not had a chance to be noticed yet, but it never will until the BBC starts scheduling something of a different genre. Then again it is easier to use that to turn the argument away from the combative remit-ignoring Beeb to the struggling ITV, isn't it?

I think you'll find that QI and Gavin and Stacey will be returning to BBC One from Thursday 26th November.

Thanks for that info. Thank god for that, a bit of an alternative - and not repeats! Jesus wept!

I don't see what your problem is. It's not like everyday on BBC One primetime is repeats, are they?

New Tricks repeats have been in the Thursday slot for about 4/5 weeks?

The same amount of time Doc Martin and Kingdom repeats were in the Friday 9pm slot, denting Hotel Babylon in the process? Did you forget about that, or is it selective memory?

Sorry, remind me - how many weeks have the BBC aired New Tricks, old or new for now?

And I highly doubt Hotel Babylon was dented by Kingdom for crying out loud. A trashy Footballers' Wives esque froth-fest against a snoozey drama?

Friday
16:35 - The Sarah Jane Adventures: 1.1m (9.6%)

BBC One 15-minute breakdown:
- 16:15 - 300,000
- 16:30 - 900,000
- 16:45 - 1.2m

Source: Doctor Who News

Arguably, it's better for ITV to have Champions League on a Wednesday, as it allows them to show highlights of more games from the Tues / Wed night matches. Previously with the Tuesday deal, you only got a very one sided view of the competition.

Don't know the solution to Thursdays, but viewing habits take a while for people to adjust to so I'd stick with it for the time being. I don't think they can afford to keep switching Corrie around the schedule.

Highlights wise certainly better, though if they could have a live game on Tuesday then show brief highlights of the other British clubs in action after the final whistle that would probably be the ideal.

That said thought, the new schedule does mean ITV1 is making an impact on Wednesday nights again. They never did much in the 9pm slot in recent years, but now with Midsummer Murders especially they are performing well in the non-football weeks.


Back to The X Factor though and I still think it's ridiculous the Sunday repeats were dropped, but I wonder if this is helping boost the ratings, or could Sundays result show rate even higher if ITV1 had kept the afternoon repeat of the performance show?

In reality though, I suspect anyone interested in the show would tape it anyway.

You're talking absolute rubbish. The BBC have not scheduled aggressively against The Bill. On the contrary, they've been very kind to it.

A repeat is never, ever tough competition, no matter how popular a programme is, even if it's the same genre. If a new series of Silent Witness went up against a repeat of A Touch Of Frost, which do you think would win? Silent Witness would, easily.

If The Bill is losing to repeats of New Tricks, then that's The Bill's fault, not the BBC's. You may like the revamp but I've seen plenty of comments on the forums from people who think the revamp is rubbish.

The Bill is old and viewers have lost interest in it, as they sometimes do with programmes that drag on and on instead of getting out whilst they're on top. (see also Heartbeat, Casualty, Summer Wine, Millionaire, My Family.)

As for your comment about the BBC putting a repeat on on primetime, there have always been repeats on primetime. Even when there were only 3 channels and ITV had a commercial TV monopoly, and money flowing out of every orifice, ITV still repeated all their hit comedies and dramas.

This week coming and last week gone, New Tricks was the only primetime (7-10pm) repeat on BBC1. That's pretty good going. I've got a Radio Times from October 1978. BBC1 had 6 hours of peaktime repeats that week.

Totally agree. If the new format of The Bill is as ground breaking as JamesJ says, then surely people would be watching it. The fact that the launch on 23 July only pulled in 4.5m shows that people are simply uninterested in the format.

Couldn't agree more - I think The Bill has gone through so many re-tools and revamps in the past few years that viewers have simply lost patience with it.

I love the idea that a 26-year-old drama still needs time to find its feet.

If The Bill is struggling to "find its feet", it's because ITV shot it in them.

Extraordinary day in the Premier League should give MOTD a good audience tonight.

apart from Liverpool losing (and they have lost frequently this season already), I'm not sure what you mean? Plenty of goals for sure though

To all those who say The Bill is going to be axed please answer these questions:

1) What else was delivering 4m viewers regularly for ITV in the Thursday 9pm slot?

2) What other drama replacement could be produced at a similar budget? Certainly not the more set piece crime dramas?

3) Why would ITV axe a show with quite good demographics compared to a lot of other shows on the network?

Quite a few sending offs?

Well we wouldnt want to advertise a BBC show too much would we!

There have been just shy of 30 goals and 8 red cards-no doubt much to discuss with the Beebs supreme pundits.

I'm not one of those saying it should be axed, but...

1. Nothing else in that slot had a Coronation Street lead-in every week.

2. There are no other drama replacements. If that is all the money ITV can spend, they would be better off with a huge entertainment/reality show.

3. Because they could get better demographics.


I think ITV has to prioritise as it squeezes its budget. It is true to say it needs more reality and entertainment shows, because that is all the money will pay for. Therefore in terms of drama they have to select only the very best to stay. I think there is an argument there that The Bill is not a priority or the very best ITV does.

Personally, I think it should stay for now, until they get the rest of the schedule right. But if they pick themselves up again, people would be kidding themselves if they thought The Bill would still be here 5 years from now.

Do we think it's the time or the revamp putting people off most?

I think its the revamp they have ruined it. if it was the 8pm show at 9pm then it should still be getting similar ratings. Thursdays was never the bills strongest night. it was capable of getting over 5m consistently on a wednesday but was always lower on a thursday.

So I'm sure the fact it has lost over a million viewers will be concerning some at Network centre. And it's only over 4m in the officials as most overnight ratings now have seen it below that.

personally I think they want rid of it and I can see it moving to Channel 5.

Tonights ratings could be interesting, wouldn't be surprised if Halloween made a dent in a few shows.

Perhaps, but most children of trick or treating age (under about 11 or 12) will probably be back for most of X Factor, although Merlin and Harry Hill hour will be hit quite hard I'd imagine.

Pretty extraordinary day in the Guinness Premiership too with Saints going down 29-15 against Tigers. Gutted.

I won't be watching the ITV4 highlights though- too painful.