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1st November and still no firmware update! But I don't care anymore! |
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#51 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Hampshire
Posts: 314
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Quote:
There are a few otherwise free channels that are encrypted mainly because there is no space for them on The UK focussed Astra 2D which has a narrow beam. The holders of the broadcast rights for the programmes insist on encrytion to in theory restrict viewing to UK license payers. That's essentially why these channels need a card to view (Apart from contractual obligations). Without such a card even if they were added to the freesat epg you could not view them. There are loads of potential free to air channels (about 99% rubbish) but why would Freesat allow these on the epg without paying the fee to support their inclusion. It's not as simple as just including the data there is the additional support of providing mheg facilities like allowing scheduling of recording from the epg
In addition Sky's approval is required before any channel is added to the Freesat epg to avoid potential confilcts between the two systems |
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#52 |
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Inactive Member
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,324
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Quote:
You have missed out a massive user base and a significant factor why freesat's not in competition with Sky. There are hundreds of generic fta satellite tuners available that neither use either the Freesat epg or Sky's. These include single tuner SD and HD non recording and pvr ready models and top of the range boxes offering amazing capabilities including twin tuner DVB-S2 recording (Check out the new Topfield SRP2100). You can buy a pretty good SD fta box that can record to USB for as little as £50.00. Any of these can receive all the freesat SD channels, many of the HD models can also get ITV HD and many in addition support diseqc and usals offering potentially thousands of free TV and Radio stations
Incidentally Sky has more customers now than when freesat launched. Sure some have replaced Sky boxes with Freesat ones, those that have done so for non recording freesat boxes have wasted their money as they have gained precisely nothing. Quote:
Nope its not in competition with SKY...
What it adds is choice. For those like me who couldn't justify paying monthly subscriptions for sky+, couldn't see the point then in paying further subscription on top to get HD. The HDR gave me a choice that I could get some HD content, record as I did with my SKY+ box all for a one off fee. I think there are a few people out there like me. SKY is there for those who want what it sells and are happy to pay. Over the years I have enjoyed my subscription to SKY for what I wanted out of it but at the price I was happy to pay. Back to the original point. How can a service like Freesat which other than the hardware doesn't actually sell programs be in competition with a Subsciption service like SKY ? It's very, very, simple. An entity is in competition with another entity if that entity utilises the same finite resource as the other entity. This is clearly the case with Freesat v Sky. It may not be significant competition, or important competition, or any other term you choose to use but competition it most certainly is. |
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#53 |
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Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Oxford
Posts: 12,689
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I don't understand why people must insist on arguing a point that is so obviously incorrect.
It's very, very, simple. An entity is in competition with another entity if that entity utilises the same finite resource as the other entity. This is clearly the case with Freesat v Sky. It may not be significant competition, or important competition, or any other term you choose to use but competition it most certainly is. One is free and has a limited availability of new titles and very often a long waiting time for them whilst the other costs money, has a wider choice and has earlier availability of choice. Is that competition or provision of two different services? Competition is when they are offering the same (or very similar) product, which is not really the case with Sky and freesat. |
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#54 |
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Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 253
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Competition is when they are offering the same (or very similar) product, which is not really the case with Sky and freesat. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...els_on_Freesat These are the common channels that many many people with and without SKY are happy to watch - if you can live with that list then Freesat is in direct competition to Sky. I can and therefore SKY don't get my business. Patrick |
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#55 |
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Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 212
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It is like saying your local library is in competition with your local bookstore.
And i am sure that the bookshop would prefer it if the library wasn't there, just as Mr Murdoch would prefer it if freesat wasn't there. |
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#56 |
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Join Date: May 2005
Location: Redditch Worcs
Posts: 17,289
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I still fail to see how Sky would be bothered if someone bought a freesat box instead of a Sky box or swapped an existing sky box for a freesat box, in this situation Sky would gain no income anyway even from those using sky boxes. (Who needs that sort of customer). Neither Sky nor Freesat provides the free channels (apart from may be sky News) so the platform used to receive them is not really relevant except to provide meaningless statistics. The broadcasters won't care anyway as provided they have a viewing audience the label on the box used to watch makes no difference
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#57 |
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Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 212
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I still fail to see how Sky would be bothered if someone bought a freesat box instead of a Sky box or swapped an existing sky box for a freesat box, in this situation Sky would gain no income anyway
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#58 |
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Join Date: May 2005
Location: Redditch Worcs
Posts: 17,289
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Quote:
But surely if someone swaps a $ky box for a freesat box then $ky loses a customer ??
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#59 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 54
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Quote:
Here is a list of channels on Freesat.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...els_on_Freesat These are the common channels that many many people with and without SKY are happy to watch - if you can live with that list then Freesat is in direct competition to Sky. I can and therefore SKY don't get my business. Patrick People don't leave SKY because FREESAT or FREEVIEW offer free channels. They leave because they stop paying and no longer pay the monthly subscribtion. Oh Tern that augument is vise versa. |
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#60 |
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Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Brackley, UK
Posts: 16,657
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It may not be significant competition, or important competition, or any other term you choose to use but competition it most certainly is.
![]() Someone moving from Sky to Freesat won't appear as that on a balance sheet. It's just a customer no longer paying the subscription. They come, they go - it's all just churn. Been going on for years and no-one much cares about the why. They just launch a new offer if the churn gets a bit high. |
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#61 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 212
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They don't lose a paying customer, if the subscriber stopped paying and kept his box (apart from the much mentioned recording) he/she would still have more epg channels than a freesat customer would have (including a few that you cant watch on a freesat box in any mode), a sky box used to watch fta stuff makes no contribution to Sky. Freesat would gain an extra customer but apart from the headline users figure would gain no extra income.
If someone chooses to stop their $ky subscriptions in favour of buying a freesat+ box then $ky lose a customer. And if somebody chooses to get a dish installed and get freesat then $ky fail to gain a customer. |
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#62 |
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Inactive Member
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,324
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Quote:
Oh I can accept that argument. But if it isn't significant or important then it..um..doesn't matter
![]() ![]() And I only said 'may' not be considered significant or important. Anyway, a great many people have interest in a great many things that are not 'important'. I dare say Murdoch would be an extremely happy man if Freesat and Freeview had never been available as I'm quite sure he would have a lot more customers (particularly as FSFS was such a well kept secret). Someone moving from Sky to Freesat won't appear as that on a balance sheet. It's just a customer no longer paying the subscription. They come, they go - it's all just churn. Been going on for years and no-one much cares about the why. They just launch a new offer if the churn gets a bit high.[/quote] |
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#63 |
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Inactive Member
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,324
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It is like saying your local library is in competition with your local bookstore.
An excellent analogy. Bookshops rely on customers purchasing books to make their money. I a person wants to read a book and can make a choice between: 1) A local bookshop 2) Amazon 3) The local library it's self evident that the library is just as much in competition with the bookshop as is Amazon. |
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#64 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Redditch Worcs
Posts: 17,289
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Quote:
OK, i will rephrase.
If someone chooses to stop their $ky subscriptions in favour of buying a freesat+ box then $ky lose a customer. And if somebody chooses to get a dish installed and get freesat then $ky fail to gain a customer. |
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#65 |
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Inactive Member
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,324
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Quote:
No problem with that but if I dig out the old skybox my son gave me or buy one off fleabay and connect to a spare lnb ouput have sky gained a customer (I used it to line up my dish while waiting for a hdr). I think not they don't even know I have it. This is an option available to anyone who sets up a dish. If Sky would cancell the £10.00 a month recording subscription there would be zero incentive to swap.
As long as there exist people who can, when deciding on a method of obtaining TV, as part of their decision process, make a choice between subscribing to Sky or getting true Freesat, then Freesat is competition for Sky. The existence of FSFS is just an irrelevance. |
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#66 |
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Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: The City and County of Bristol
Posts: 2,623
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........anyway......5th of November and still no update.
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#67 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Redditch Worcs
Posts: 17,289
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........anyway......5th of November and still no update.
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#68 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Rossendale Valley
Posts: 106
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I would rather thought it a Roman Candle......
A slow burner....well it's topical. |
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#69 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Merseyside, UK
Posts: 427
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More like a damp quib really.
I dont think even putting a nuclear bomb up their a*s would get them moving any quicker. |
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#70 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Redditch Worcs
Posts: 17,289
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Joking apart i am pretty sure the delay in firmware release is not the fault of humax but rather as a result of the ongoing bbci development
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#71 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 68
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Joking apart i am pretty sure the delay in firmware release is not the fault of humax but rather as a result of the ongoing bbci development
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#72 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Rossendale Valley
Posts: 106
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Joking apart i am pretty sure the delay in firmware release is not the fault of humax but rather as a result of the ongoing bbci development
If I remember correctly I did read (pvrjunction) that the time would be used wisely to maybe have a look at a few more enhancements....so for me I hope they allow me just to plug in a usb drive and have no file limit. |
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#73 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Redditch Worcs
Posts: 17,289
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Yes it does seem that way and I can imagine that this has caused far more frustration than most of us have had to deal with.
If I remember correctly I did read (pvrjunction) that the time would be used wisely to maybe have a look at a few more enhancements....so for me I hope they allow me just to plug in a usb drive and have no file limit. |
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#74 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Hampshire
Posts: 314
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Quote:
Not sure what you mean about file limit. A FAT32 drive is limited to 4Gb files not by anything Humax has done it's a fundamental limit imposed by the way the file system tracks clusters belonging to individual files. A drive formatted EXT3 can handle massive files.
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#75 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Morecambe, Lancs, UK
Posts: 1,525
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Guys - a thought.... may be its done but due to the BBC dragging their feet on the iplayer Beta its not been released ? ( Ok I know that opens up another can of worms but its just a thought ).
Heres another thought, if it works with Iplayer then it should work with at least ITV as they use the same tech.... in fact didnt I see some thing about iPlayer been sold now as a package ? Terran |
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