Everyone needs to just calm down for a second a realize that in both cases Rachel and Lucie there were clear and maybe valid reasons for simon to put it to deadlock.

Yes both racchel and lucie were good singers and no i dont agree with lucie being sent home....but thats just the way this show works.

As many people have said before its not called "the greatest singer competition"....this is not purely a singing show so it should not always be based on singing.

The sing-off between Lloyd V rachel was unfair therefore deadlock was the best and ONLY way.

The sing-off between Lucie V twins is much harder to understand.. but you can still get why simon did it....headlines, publicity etc.

Also i will say the twins did give it thier all in a way thier performance was much more passionate simon could really have enjoyed thier sing-off song better.

As i ahve said before people need to put themselves in simons shoes (and mind?) and really think what would they have done?
what would have been best for the show? etc

Im not in any way condoning simons decision to save the twins
but in both cases its clear why he did it.

no - its not how it works at all.

you're thinking of an alternative set up whereby they have a public vote, and the person with the fewest votes leaves.

but the way it actually works is that the two acts with the fewest votes face a sing off, and the judges are supposed to vote off the weakest act.

for the last two weeks that clearly hasn't happened.

Iain

Okay, it's only a TV show but Cowell made a huge error in judgement and now everybody suffers, him not least.

Lucie goes, Jedward get abuse due to Simon's decision, viewers are disenchanted and realising it's all a sham.

Another BB7 Nikki return moment. The show may be flying now but the viewer disillusion will stay around.

No because clearly Simon knows who he wants rid of, knows who is bottom and chooses to shirk the responsibility over to the public.

It is not the only year though they have not made the decision, but twice one week after another and one judge losing two acts seems pretty dire to me.

no - because its not (or shouldn't be) about who Simon wants rid of, its about gettind rid of the weakest of the bottom two.

i know its gone to deadlock before, but its often subjective.

but there's no way in hell anyone could argue that John and Edward were better than Lucie.

Iain

I agree, people are going over the top about it. Every week someone will disagree with the decision but that is how the show works.

Neither Rachel or Lucie would have won the show. If you put all the contestants in order of talent yeah they probably did go too early but so what? Neither of them was that amazing.

The problem is the public vote doesn't compare Lucie to the Twins, it compares Lucie and the Twins to everyone else, which is why deadlock doesn't work. There needs to be a seperate vote for the sing off, or the judges should have to decide.

On strictly there is no deadlock, the head judge gets the decision. This wouldn't allow Simon to shirk the responsibility he would have the casting vote.

The outcome would still have been the same!

Maybe, but I think you are missing why people are angry. Simon shirked his responsibilty and made it look as if the public had voted for the twins over lucie (refer to my post above as to why this is the wrong conclusion). At least it would have been his decision outright if he had the casting vote!

I think the sing off is completely stupid. As it counts for nothing. I'd rather it just be down to the public vote as far as I'm concerned, whether it be right or wrong.

The last couple of weeks, it didn't take a genius, or somebody with the actual results to know who had the least votes from the public. I knew and many others knew that as soon as Simon sent it to deadlock, the two girls would go. Simon also knew this, therefore instead of being honest he tried to make himself blameless. I'd have respected him a lot more if he was totally honest and just said that he would prefer the boys to stay in because of x,y and z even if that meant that he thought they were a threat to his acts.

The real problem with X Factor is the voting system, we should be allowed to vote for the people we want out. I think that way Lucie and Rachel would not be sitting at home now. With the current voting system many of us cannot be bothered. I know who was the worst act every week, but sometimes I cannot tell who was the best, especially this year as the standard has been so much below average. This week I'd love to vote certain people out, but I cannot.

That's why Lloyd will go when he's in deadlock with.... well almost anyone else, bluerose. You'll just have to live with it.

From the look of horror on Simon's face when Dermot announced Lloyd's survival, I think even Simon regrets one of them deadlock decisions already. And it's not the Lucie one.

There have been many times where I could agree with the deadlock decision. For example when a judge has 2 of his own acts in the bottom 2 and doesn't want to take a preference (this is the downside of a judge also being a mentor). Even with Rachel and Lloyd I can sort of see why Simon did it (although I didn't agree that he should have on that occassion).

Last weekend was so obviously wrong and was for no other reason that the show's ratings.

At the end of the day, yes it is just a show and I am sure no one involved with the show is going to be sorry over all the publicity it has got. But if we are going to have this type of show then at least lets try and make it fair and consistent as much as we can.

I personaly dont have a preference on anyone in this year's X-Factor so I am just watching out of pure entertainment, but for last weekend, it wouldn't have mattered who was in the bottom 2 I would have still thought that Simon's decision was wrong when there was such an obvious difference in the sing-off.

For the sing-off, they either have to scrap it and just go with the public vote (to which no one can complain whether it goes their acts way or not), or open up the voting lines again for a short period after the sing-offs.

Don't agree with that at all. It's not Big Brother. On a show like The X Factor the winner should be who the public like most not who they dislike the least. If it were vote to evict like Big Brother acts like Danyl would not be there and the winner would be someone with no personality. Look at Big Brother, the best characters get voted out early.

I'd actually love it if one of the crap singers like Lloyd were to win now, I think it would really show what complete nonsense the X Factor is.
I think if you want soap opera, you watch Eastenders or X Factor.
If you want a proper singing contest you watch Idol.

As I've become completely disillusioned this year, even more so than others, then the only show of this type I'll watch in future is American Idol.

*yawn*

yet another "xfactor is a sham" thread? lol

I can't keep tabs on which one's I've posted on (ok yes I can, but I CBA) so I'll just recap.

Simon Cowell is solely in the business of making himself more money. Get over it. All publicity is good publicity, and so by creating a talking point of the show he will now rake in more cash from the public.

And there in a nutshell is the problem with the X Factor and people who vote every week.
Last edited by seellee : 12-11-2009 at 10:27

Truth is, though not everyone is watching it for a straight singing contest. I know I don't. I happen to hate American Idol as it is so old fashioned and boring - and I love XF precisely because it has subtleties like the judges making 'political' decisions, etc.

If you want singing - try Eurovision.

I thought there was also another option i.e. Deadlock.

If they feel they cannot decide then I do think, regardless of the act, that they be permitted to go to Deadlock.

Lucie, and I loved her voice and she seemed a lovely person too, received the lowest amount of votes. I still cannot understand how she came to have so few votes when she did so well.

The same happened with Rachel whom I also thought a great singer too.

The both have options outside and will make a career for themselves because of their singing abilities.

I sympathise how other feel about the whole situation I really do.

I think then they should drop Deadlock and just announce the person with the lowest votes and be done with it.
This would stop this type of thing happening again.

This is exactly what I have been saying since Sunday.

It isnt that Lucie went over the twins that really caused the uproar.

Its that Simon has been plastered over every tabloid in the known world proclaiming he would leave the country and never do x factor again if they win, that they have no place on his show , are horrible and only there because they are Irish (the last one in particular I thought wrong, given its taking it away from the pseudo pantomime 'talent' aspect into realms he shouldnt be going ) , only to then not get rid of them when given the chance.

Its not that they stayed over Lucie, its that given the fuss he has created , its that they stayed over anyone, and it was , in effect, Simon sitting, looking into the camera and shouting 'and you morons beleived everying I said , gullible fools' .

THAT is why hes getting the grief, and why hes hurt the brand long term.

He's many things, but honesty of opinion and stright talking are what endeared him to the public. He blew that.

We all know its manipulated and staged, but its subtle enough for people to ignore it for the most part, Sunday was simply too blatant to ignore, hence the backlash.

I do agree, its a 'return of Nikki' moment for X factor, too full of themselves in production thinking they could get away with anything. People will ignore what they dont want to know mostly, until you stand up and slap them across the face with it.

thats what has hapenned.

I agree completely, much fairer and people know they have to vote to keep their favourites in, and not rely on the judges to save the better singer...

Well I used to until I realised how contrived it was. I almost quit when Shayne Ward won as he blatantly wasn't the most talented. My faith was restored when Miss Lewis won. I didn't really keep up with the Leon Jackson year. Last year was pretty good as there was actually quite a few talented singers. This year has been zero about singing.

As for Eurovision, as far as I'm concerned that is just X Factor on acid. People don't vote for the best song in that, as all the countries just align with their closest allies. Another farce of a show.

I'm definitely going to take your advice as I like proper singers, so Idol satisfies that for me.

Actually it is, because that is how the show is set up. The judges are supposed to vote off the act they want to vote off and do.

Who's to say that if he had gone to first, Simon would not have voted to keep the twins in and sent Lucie home anyway?

You may assume/guess he would have sent the Twins home, but you don't actually know. One thing he did say, was that taking everything into account, he would probably prefer to see the boys again next week.

Would it have gone differently if Simon had not been the last to vote? Very likely, but by no means definitely. There's just no way to tell.

Absolutely spot on!

The sad thing is every single FM on here realises this is the situation but still they persist with 'the public got rid of Rachel', 'maybe Simon found the twins act more entertaining', and countless other BS arguments.*

The show's a joke, Simon's a joke and anyone saying anything different is in that river in Egypt.


* See above.

Truer words have never beeen spoken. The part I bolded really sums up why my opinion of Cowell has fallen off a cliff.