HD? Are we being misled?

OnexOne · 14-11-2009, 10:30

Hi folks, was in looking at tv's the other day and what struck me most was this whole HD picture promotion thats going on at the moment! there i was watching a split screen being promoted on all tv's showing 1 half HD and the other not! Now my eyesight aint that bad but the half that wasnt HD was like a tv with the settings for sharpness and contrast turned down to the lowest you can get! The pic i have on my tv was more like the hd pic although it aint hd!

anyone else feel the whole HD picture fad is a bit misleading!

14-11-2009, 10:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by OnexOne

Hi folks, was in looking at tv's the other day and what struck me most was this whole HD picture promotion thats going on at the moment! there i was watching a split screen being promoted on all tv's showing 1 half HD and the other not! Now my eyesight aint that bad but the half that wasnt HD was like a tv with the settings for sharpness and contrast turned down to the lowest you can get! The pic i have on my tv was more like the hd pic although it aint hd!

anyone else feel the whole HD picture fad is a bit misleading!

Yes, I'm inclined to agree. I think that when digital tv arrived it got rid of ghosting and certain imperfections in the picture caused by bad weather and such like but also softened the picture quite a bit and now HD is being touted as the great new hope whereas it is only the sharpness of old analogue but with the old aerial imperfections and susceptibilities removed.

I have some video recordings from the 1980's that have been transferred onto DVD and the colours are great and the picture quality in terms of sharpness is as good as any tv coverage I have seen today.

DaisyBumbleroot · 14-11-2009, 10:38

im not sure what you mean but you can tell a mile off the difference when playing Dead Rising on a CRT then on a HD.

A321 · 14-11-2009, 10:39

HD broadcast quality is only going to decrease as more and more bandwidth gets used up.

popalong · 14-11-2009, 10:40

I don't think we're being misled; HD definitely is a better picture. However, I do think it's overhyped and a lot of people are disappointed with it when they finally get it.

2shy2007 · 14-11-2009, 10:43

HD is briiliant but it is being ruined by the chnnels constantly putting down theit bitrates,BBC HD used to be great, but now there is not a lot of difference.

Praxidike · 14-11-2009, 10:43

Blu-Ray is definitely miles better than DVD, so HD is a lot better.

HD broadcasts often aren't up to the same standard though.

cymru78 · 14-11-2009, 10:44

As a fairly new freesat hd user, I think that the HD picture is fantastic.
There are some programmes that seem better than others but overall I'm glad I got it.

BBC HD always seems to be great and the football on ITV HD is just awesome

MAW · 14-11-2009, 10:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by A321

HD broadcast quality is only going to decrease as more and more bandwidth gets used up.

The idea is that compression technology will prevent this. The jump to Mpeg 4/H.264 was what made broadcast HD a practical possibility, the next generation is waiting in the wings.

Pretinama · 14-11-2009, 10:46

HD is certainly a better picture. I am not sure that HD channels really show full HD (but that's just me) but watching a Blu Ray DVD is significantly clearer than an SD one in my view.

myss · 14-11-2009, 10:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaisyBumbleroot

im not sure what you mean but you can tell a mile off the difference when playing Dead Rising on a CRT then on a HD.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cymru78

As a fairly new freesat hd user, I think that the HD picture is fantastic.
There are some programmes that seem better than others but overall I'm glad I got it.

BBC HD always seems to be great and the football on ITV HD is just awesome

Can I ask - what is the big difference? I mean does it look brighter, bigger, more colourful, etc?

DaisyBumbleroot · 14-11-2009, 10:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by myss

Can I ask - what is the big difference? I mean does it look brighter, bigger, more colourful, etc?

well you could hardly read the writing on the CRT, but it was crystal on the HD tv.

also a mate of mine was watching Life on HD and said how fantastic it looked on his facebook status, and someone asked a similar question, he replied that if you flicked back to normal and then to HD it was like having your eyes polished!

14-11-2009, 10:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by myss

Can I ask - what is the big difference? I mean does it look brighter, bigger, more colourful, etc?

Can you see each blade of grass on a football pitch?

blueblade · 14-11-2009, 10:50

Oh, there is a world of difference between standard definition and high definition.

HD is infinitely superior to SD, although I agree that HD quality will decline as more bandwidth is used up. Some HD channels are better than others. For me, Luxe TV & Sky Arts One seem the best. BBC HD has definitely declined in the nearly 2 years I've had HD.

I'm pleased to have now loaded ITV HD onto my Sky platform, as officially is is only available on Freesat.

14-11-2009, 10:50

What was the make, size, and model number of the TV being demonstrated?
What source were they using?
How was it connected to the TV?
Did they give you the remote so you could see what settings they had applied?

In no way is a quality HD source played into a quality full HD TV a con.

blueblade · 14-11-2009, 10:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4444

Can you see each blade of grass on a football pitch?

With HD, you literally can, yes. No exaggeration.

Gilbertoo · 14-11-2009, 10:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by OnexOne

Hi folks, was in looking at tv's the other day and what struck me most was this whole HD picture promotion thats going on at the moment! there i was watching a split screen being promoted on all tv's showing 1 half HD and the other not! Now my eyesight aint that bad but the half that wasnt HD was like a tv with the settings for sharpness and contrast turned down to the lowest you can get! The pic i have on my tv was more like the hd pic although it aint hd!

anyone else feel the whole HD picture fad is a bit misleading!

...don't make the schoolboy error and be misled by the HD demonstration in shops. There are so many factors to consider.....is the source being shared, is the TV set-up properly, is the TV any good, is the viewing distance right? Basically, HD is much better than SD. It's not a 'fad', it will soon become the norm.....and eventually only really seen as being the new SD.

Gilbertoo · 14-11-2009, 10:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by blueblade

With HD, you literally can, yes. No exaggeration.

With HD, can you see every blade of blue?

14-11-2009, 10:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4444

I have some video recordings from the 1980's that have been transferred onto DVD and the colours are great and the picture quality in terms of sharpness is as good as any tv coverage I have seen today.

"TV Coverage" - assumption = SkyHD

You are saying your VCR plays TV as good as SkyHD into a 1080p Pioneer, Panasonic, Samsung, or Sony TV (model less than 1 year old)?

lemoncurd · 14-11-2009, 10:55

It's not really true to say that HD is just going back to analogue PAL - there are 25% more viewable lines (plus progressive scan). However, the difference is only marginally perceivable. The HD market is really aimed at the US, where the difference between NTSC is very marked.
That said, the used of 720p and 1080i generally involves H.264/AVC compression, which means that, compared side be side with an MPEG2 576i broadcast, it does look considerably sharper (less macroblocking and therefore 2D filtering required).

I've seen the demos in the shops, and they are running off Blu-Ray, using the highest quality streams - the "SD" side is emulated (because you can't combine two different formats in the same frame!), and I think they've been a little heavy with the filtering, but it's actually not too wide of the mark.

astonv8 · 14-11-2009, 10:55

I can usually tell the difference when i play my 360 or PS3 on HD.

OnexOne · 14-11-2009, 10:58

it was on all tv's in store, it was just that the SD half of the tv was a terrible pic! nothing my tv is like! im sure they tone it really down to show the gap between the shown hd pic more!

Tassium · 14-11-2009, 11:04

What has happened with Freeview is the shape of things to come with regards any other space-limited broadcast technology.

The people in charge of SD broadcasts obviously believe image quality is not important so why would they suddenly think differently with HD broadcasts?

The pattern is clear. First it's the best that can be acheived. Then it's a compromise. Then it's "the public don't care". Then it's cram 'em in whatever the quality.

Tinpot · 14-11-2009, 11:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by OnexOne

it was on all tv's in store, it was just that the SD half of the tv was a terrible pic! nothing my tv is like! im sure they tone it really down to show the gap between the shown hd pic more!

A big 1080p TV is always going to show the imperfections of SD. Maybe down to that.

roddydogs · 14-11-2009, 11:09

Are you talking about the "Sky" demos in "Shopping Malls" ? these show a riduculous difference bewtween HD and SD, which is not reality, but then again what would you expect?

14-11-2009, 10:30	#1
OnexOne Forum Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ayrshire Posts: 3,700	HD? Are we being misled? Hi folks, was in looking at tv's the other day and what struck me most was this whole HD picture promotion thats going on at the moment! there i was watching a split screen being promoted on all tv's showing 1 half HD and the other not! Now my eyesight aint that bad but the half that wasnt HD was like a tv with the settings for sharpness and contrast turned down to the lowest you can get! The pic i have on my tv was more like the hd pic although it aint hd! anyone else feel the whole HD picture fad is a bit misleading!

14-11-2009, 10:34	#2
4444 Posts: n/a	Quote: Originally Posted by OnexOne Hi folks, was in looking at tv's the other day and what struck me most was this whole HD picture promotion thats going on at the moment! there i was watching a split screen being promoted on all tv's showing 1 half HD and the other not! Now my eyesight aint that bad but the half that wasnt HD was like a tv with the settings for sharpness and contrast turned down to the lowest you can get! The pic i have on my tv was more like the hd pic although it aint hd! anyone else feel the whole HD picture fad is a bit misleading! Yes, I'm inclined to agree. I think that when digital tv arrived it got rid of ghosting and certain imperfections in the picture caused by bad weather and such like but also softened the picture quite a bit and now HD is being touted as the great new hope whereas it is only the sharpness of old analogue but with the old aerial imperfections and susceptibilities removed. I have some video recordings from the 1980's that have been transferred onto DVD and the colours are great and the picture quality in terms of sharpness is as good as any tv coverage I have seen today.

14-11-2009, 10:38	#3
DaisyBumbleroot Forum Member Join Date: May 2003 Location: Derby, UK Posts: 23,456	im not sure what you mean but you can tell a mile off the difference when playing Dead Rising on a CRT then on a HD.

14-11-2009, 10:39	#4
A321 Forum Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 5,746	HD broadcast quality is only going to decrease as more and more bandwidth gets used up.

14-11-2009, 10:40	#5
popalong Forum Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 2,299	I don't think we're being misled; HD definitely is a better picture. However, I do think it's overhyped and a lot of people are disappointed with it when they finally get it.

14-11-2009, 10:43	#6
2shy2007 Forum Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 40,798	HD is briiliant but it is being ruined by the chnnels constantly putting down theit bitrates,BBC HD used to be great, but now there is not a lot of difference.

14-11-2009, 10:43	#7
Praxidike Forum Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 9,103	Blu-Ray is definitely miles better than DVD, so HD is a lot better. HD broadcasts often aren't up to the same standard though.

14-11-2009, 10:44	#8
cymru78 Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: North Wales Posts: 917	As a fairly new freesat hd user, I think that the HD picture is fantastic. There are some programmes that seem better than others but overall I'm glad I got it. BBC HD always seems to be great and the football on ITV HD is just awesome

14-11-2009, 10:46	#9
MAW Forum Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 28,577	Quote: Originally Posted by A321 HD broadcast quality is only going to decrease as more and more bandwidth gets used up. The idea is that compression technology will prevent this. The jump to Mpeg 4/H.264 was what made broadcast HD a practical possibility, the next generation is waiting in the wings.

14-11-2009, 10:46	#10
Pretinama Guest Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 5,901	HD is certainly a better picture. I am not sure that HD channels really show full HD (but that's just me) but watching a Blu Ray DVD is significantly clearer than an SD one in my view.

14-11-2009, 10:47	#11
myss Forum Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Londonia :o> Posts: 11,144	Quote: Originally Posted by DaisyBumbleroot im not sure what you mean but you can tell a mile off the difference when playing Dead Rising on a CRT then on a HD. Quote: Originally Posted by cymru78 As a fairly new freesat hd user, I think that the HD picture is fantastic. There are some programmes that seem better than others but overall I'm glad I got it. BBC HD always seems to be great and the football on ITV HD is just awesome Can I ask - what is the big difference? I mean does it look brighter, bigger, more colourful, etc?

14-11-2009, 10:49	#12
DaisyBumbleroot Forum Member Join Date: May 2003 Location: Derby, UK Posts: 23,456	Quote: Originally Posted by myss Can I ask - what is the big difference? I mean does it look brighter, bigger, more colourful, etc? well you could hardly read the writing on the CRT, but it was crystal on the HD tv. also a mate of mine was watching Life on HD and said how fantastic it looked on his facebook status, and someone asked a similar question, he replied that if you flicked back to normal and then to HD it was like having your eyes polished!

14-11-2009, 10:50	#13
4444 Posts: n/a	Quote: Originally Posted by myss Can I ask - what is the big difference? I mean does it look brighter, bigger, more colourful, etc? Can you see each blade of grass on a football pitch?

14-11-2009, 10:50	#14
blueblade Forum Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Southern East Anglia Posts: 75,234	Oh, there is a world of difference between standard definition and high definition. HD is infinitely superior to SD, although I agree that HD quality will decline as more bandwidth is used up. Some HD channels are better than others. For me, Luxe TV & Sky Arts One seem the best. BBC HD has definitely declined in the nearly 2 years I've had HD. I'm pleased to have now loaded ITV HD onto my Sky platform, as officially is is only available on Freesat.

14-11-2009, 10:50	#15
Hathor Posts: n/a	What was the make, size, and model number of the TV being demonstrated? What source were they using? How was it connected to the TV? Did they give you the remote so you could see what settings they had applied? In no way is a quality HD source played into a quality full HD TV a con.

14-11-2009, 10:51	#16
blueblade Forum Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Southern East Anglia Posts: 75,234	Quote: Originally Posted by 4444 Can you see each blade of grass on a football pitch? With HD, you literally can, yes. No exaggeration.

14-11-2009, 10:52	#17
Gilbertoo Forum Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 19,059	Quote: Originally Posted by OnexOne Hi folks, was in looking at tv's the other day and what struck me most was this whole HD picture promotion thats going on at the moment! there i was watching a split screen being promoted on all tv's showing 1 half HD and the other not! Now my eyesight aint that bad but the half that wasnt HD was like a tv with the settings for sharpness and contrast turned down to the lowest you can get! The pic i have on my tv was more like the hd pic although it aint hd! anyone else feel the whole HD picture fad is a bit misleading! ...don't make the schoolboy error and be misled by the HD demonstration in shops. There are so many factors to consider.....is the source being shared, is the TV set-up properly, is the TV any good, is the viewing distance right? Basically, HD is much better than SD. It's not a 'fad', it will soon become the norm.....and eventually only really seen as being the new SD.

14-11-2009, 10:53	#18
Gilbertoo Forum Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 19,059	Quote: Originally Posted by blueblade With HD, you literally can, yes. No exaggeration. With HD, can you see every blade of blue?

14-11-2009, 10:55	#19
Hathor Posts: n/a	Quote: Originally Posted by 4444 I have some video recordings from the 1980's that have been transferred onto DVD and the colours are great and the picture quality in terms of sharpness is as good as any tv coverage I have seen today. "TV Coverage" - assumption = SkyHD You are saying your VCR plays TV as good as SkyHD into a 1080p Pioneer, Panasonic, Samsung, or Sony TV (model less than 1 year old)?

14-11-2009, 10:55	#20
lemoncurd Forum Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Bristol Posts: 46,988	It's not really true to say that HD is just going back to analogue PAL - there are 25% more viewable lines (plus progressive scan). However, the difference is only marginally perceivable. The HD market is really aimed at the US, where the difference between NTSC is very marked. That said, the used of 720p and 1080i generally involves H.264/AVC compression, which means that, compared side be side with an MPEG2 576i broadcast, it does look considerably sharper (less macroblocking and therefore 2D filtering required). I've seen the demos in the shops, and they are running off Blu-Ray, using the highest quality streams - the "SD" side is emulated (because you can't combine two different formats in the same frame!), and I think they've been a little heavy with the filtering, but it's actually not too wide of the mark.

14-11-2009, 10:55	#21
astonv8 Inactive Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 1,081	I can usually tell the difference when i play my 360 or PS3 on HD.

DS Forums

HD? Are we being misled?

14-11-2009, 10:58	#22
OnexOne Forum Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ayrshire Posts: 3,700	it was on all tv's in store, it was just that the SD half of the tv was a terrible pic! nothing my tv is like! im sure they tone it really down to show the gap between the shown hd pic more!

14-11-2009, 11:04	#23
Tassium Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: It's Grim Posts: 24,412	What has happened with Freeview is the shape of things to come with regards any other space-limited broadcast technology. The people in charge of SD broadcasts obviously believe image quality is not important so why would they suddenly think differently with HD broadcasts? The pattern is clear. First it's the best that can be acheived. Then it's a compromise. Then it's "the public don't care". Then it's cram 'em in whatever the quality.

14-11-2009, 11:04	#24
Tinpot Forum Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 2,462	Quote: Originally Posted by OnexOne it was on all tv's in store, it was just that the SD half of the tv was a terrible pic! nothing my tv is like! im sure they tone it really down to show the gap between the shown hd pic more! A big 1080p TV is always going to show the imperfections of SD. Maybe down to that.

14-11-2009, 11:09	#25
roddydogs Forum Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 6,353	Are you talking about the "Sky" demos in "Shopping Malls" ? these show a riduculous difference bewtween HD and SD, which is not reality, but then again what would you expect?