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I lost all respect for Len Goodman when he dumped out Martina in week 1 but now ...


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Old 14-11-2009, 21:06
Vivacious Lady
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I think it was a difficult decision, especially since it is difficult to compare the two dances in terms of performance since the AS is a more wowy dance than the VW (although I know there are some forumites who like the VW). It seems to me that it was fair that Len and Craig chose what they thought was the cleaner dance.

However, I guess Phil was the better long term prospect, although if Ricky could relax in the ballroom he would be so much better.
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Old 14-11-2009, 21:06
Blue Angel
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ohhh it was a shame EITHER had to go~ it's getting to that stage isn't it?
I LOVE Tuffers and this show has done him a lot of good in a an already good career IMO as it's confirmed what a decent bloke he is~ I've always loved Tuffers to bits but even I was amazed that he could dance! Ricky's a really top bloke too! And again~ so surprised he can dance as well as he does.. I really found that a hard call to make.

As for LeoNARD ( we always say it like 'seVEN' in our house) I think he was great this week ~ Sometimes the jet lag gets to Len and he's Mr.Grumpy , but this week he kind of took on his 'Elder Statesman' role in the absence of Brucie to be supporitve of Tess and really behaved himself! This year,all the 'celebs' are really likeable people too.
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Old 14-11-2009, 21:10
Loverach
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Both made mistakes in the DO and as has been pointed out the judges chop and change their criteria to suit themselves. I agree that the DO is becoming a farce and should be removed with it coming down to the public vote.
We are never given the actual voter figures either and that is a mistake.
Tonight once again the judges showed favouritism in their voting and one of these evenings it will come back to bite them with both Ali and Ricky W in the DO. Then they will once again say they were the wrong two and there are worse dancers left. The GBP aren't stupid and do vote on personality as well as dancing and also vote on those who have a "journey" like Natalie. Ali and Ricky W seem to be able to make mistakes and get away with it with high marks. If I could vote, I can't as I live in France, I wouldn't vote for either Ali or Ricky W. Itis Lisa Snowdon all over again and look what happened to her.
Completely agree with this part of the post. Their journies are also really public whereas there are people like Tuffers and Ricky G and Chris to an extent who were/are having quiet journies. It doesn't seem to appeal to the public as much which I don't know the reason for. I personally don't like Natalie, Ali and Ricky W and would much have preffered to see the three gentlemen I've previously mentioned in the final as I don't really care for Laila much; and poor poor Jade ... I feel so sorry for her and hope the injury isn't as bad as first feared but I think it will be
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Old 14-11-2009, 21:12
Icarus17
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A case of luck of the draw again I felt, a bit like Austin's exit last year. Phil had the American Smooth, generally not easy to score well in, and easy to make a mistake with, whereas Ricky had the Viennese Waltz, which, consisting as it does of 3 steps, is pretty hard to mess up. Oh, well.
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Old 14-11-2009, 21:15
MaryS
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I would just like to say that 2 weeks ago the couple who gave the worst dance-off performance,Ali & Brian, were saved.I know she was abit injured but she made alot of mistakes & i don't thin k it's fair that Phil & Katya had to go.Should be one rule for everyone.
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Old 14-11-2009, 21:18
DavidJames
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I quite agree that was shocking, who the hell does he think he is.
I assume he thinks he's a professional dance judge, who's been appointed as Head Judge.

Spoiler


Couldn;'t it go to public vote after all Ricky was there last week as well
So, you're suggesting the dance-off is decided by public vote and the tie is broken based on public votes?

Because the public are clearly great at picking dance quality?
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Old 14-11-2009, 21:19
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Phil shouldn't have gone IMO. I'm sick of Len's judgement being the one that sticks. He's had it wrong 3 times now. Simon Cowell doesn't have that power in the X Factor and it's his show!
Phil made a mistake

Ricky didn't

simples. They judge on that one dance - fair is fair.
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Old 14-11-2009, 21:19
Loverach
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I would just like to say that 2 weeks ago the couple who gave the worst dance-off performance,Ali & Brian, were saved.I know she was abit injured but she made alot of mistakes & i don't thin k it's fair that Phil & Katya had to go.Should be one rule for everyone.
Completely agree. I was really annoyed with this as well. It reminded me of when Matt Di Angelo was saved from even the dance off and then scored a perfect forty for their waltz. As much as it was deserved (probably) what did Ali score last week ...? I'm so gutted. I knew there would be one week where Tuffers suffered the wrong end of being undermarked and tonight was that night
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Old 14-11-2009, 21:25
Loverach
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Phil made a mistake

Ricky didn't

simples. They judge on that one dance - fair is fair.
they both made mistakes to be fair. I just think it's unfair two of them thought Phil made the most and two of them thought Ricky made the most. I mean the AS is much harder than the VW and Phil was bound to make mistakes. What I'm most gutted about is that when it's 2-2 the vote that Len has is the most influencial. If this is completely true, why not come to him first and just have done with it? The public vote should have influence again when it's 2-2. Because of Len, Martina, Lynda and now Phil have gone before they should have done. Well, maybe not because of Len but because the producers have upped Len's role as head judge to be quite influencial in the DO
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Old 14-11-2009, 21:28
Paace
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I was more mesmorised by the song to be honest. As I said in a previous post I love Nights In White Satin. It's truly one of my favourite songs and if I would have voted I would have voted sadly enough just based on the song. I loved Phil and Katya in this competition. They've been brilliant and I'm going to miss them. I hope Katya will stay next year. She's my fave new professional
I agree . It would be impossible to improve on the Moody Blues brilliant version of this song, but I thought the singer and band did an outstanding version tonight.
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Old 14-11-2009, 21:34
Loverach
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I agree . It would be impossible to improve on the Moody Blues brilliant version of this song, but I thought the singer and band did an outstanding version tonight.
They did. However, if I would have been doing a VW to the song, I would have chosen the Il Divo version Notte di Luce. If Erin would have chosen that version, despite Phil being my fave, I would have carried him off the stage myself and told him not to bother in the DO. Ricky could have fallen over if he would have danced to that version. That's the only circumstance I would have thought that Ricky and Erin should have stayed. I really thought Phil was pulling it together beautifully
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Old 14-11-2009, 21:39
claire2281
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Yeah, I have to say overall Phil was the better dancer except for in the dance off. Len and Craig's reasoning was sound.

It was a very close decision.
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Old 14-11-2009, 21:49
Loverach
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Yeah, I have to say overall Phil was the better dancer except for in the dance off. Len and Craig's reasoning was sound.

It was a very close decision.
I agree and I knew Tuffers would suffer. I remember there was DO situations in DTWS where the people in the DO were remarked, that was added to the judges scores from the main show and then it was down to the original public vote again from there. I agree that Phil should have got slightly less in his DO performance (although should have scored parallel to his competitors in the main show and he's suffered most from other contestants being overmarked more than the others) and Ricky slightly more but if it had gone back to the public vote from there then Ricky maybe would have gone which would have been fairer. If Phil would have gone from there then fair enough too but my original point is of Len. This 'head judge rules the rest' thing is nonsense and he's got it wrong 3 times now
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Old 14-11-2009, 22:48
lotty27
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I thought that the right couple stayed to be honest.

Ricky and Erin were better in the dance-off. It's a shame for Phil though because I thought he was at his best tonight but if they're going to bother with the dance-off it has to be who does the best in it. However I know the judges pick and choose when they adhere to this rule!
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Old 14-11-2009, 22:56
Loverach
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[quote=lotty27;36668218]I thought that the right couple stayed to be honest.

Ricky and Erin were better in the dance-off. It's a shame for Phil though because I thought he was at his best tonight but if they're going to bother with the dance-off it has to be who does the best in it. However I know the judges pick and choose when they adhere to this rule![/QUOTE]

Which makes it more disappointing because again just like with the main show in other weeks including this one, imo it's Phil who has suffered
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Old 15-11-2009, 12:29
c4k
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[quote=Loverach;36668439]
I thought that the right couple stayed to be honest.

Ricky and Erin were better in the dance-off. It's a shame for Phil though because I thought he was at his best tonight but if they're going to bother with the dance-off it has to be who does the best in it. However I know the judges pick and choose when they adhere to this rule![/QUOTE]

Which makes it more disappointing because again just like with the main show in other weeks including this one, imo it's Phil who has suffered
to be fair, as much as jade couldn't dance, he suffered because the public felt sorry for laila (don't egg me but she quite possibly would have been in the dance off sans injury) and also because there was effectively one less couple to vote for (we all know what happened as a result of john sargeant walking out when it came down to three couples!!!)

Poor phil
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Old 15-11-2009, 12:30
Technophiles
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sorry i dont agree

they were right

phil made a big mistake in his dance and they based it on that otherwise wots the point of taking into considertaion all the other weeks they might aswell not have a dance off
Yep, the result was fair.
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Old 15-11-2009, 12:31
beanbean
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I find it interesting that the judges NEVER seem to agree this year, Lens had the final say (upper hand) quite a few times whereas normally the judges agree a lot more. Its a bit frustrating that Len has pritty much always got his way on who stays.

I wanted Phil to stay but its not really a shock either way. Would have been interesting to see what they would have done say Laila and Ricky G had been the bottom 2..
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Old 15-11-2009, 12:38
c4k
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I find it interesting that the judges NEVER seem to agree this year, Lens had the final say (upper hand) quite a few times whereas normally the judges agree a lot more. Its a bit frustrating that Len has pritty much always got his way on who stays.

I wanted Phil to stay but its not really a shock either way. Would have been interesting to see what they would have done say Laila and Ricky G had been the bottom 2..
tbh I thought this was the likely case, and had this been the situation, I fully expected laila to pull out without a dance off being the case
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Old 15-11-2009, 12:41
mossy2103
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Phil shouldn't have gone IMO. I'm sick of Len's judgement being the one that sticks. He's had it wrong 3 times now
Wrong in your opinion (and probably an opinion based upon what the TV cameras saw rather than what the judges saw). And in truth, dancing is one of the expressive arts, so it will always be subjective to some extent or other. That's why there are judges, and that's why judges don't always agree (in competitions or in Strictly).
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Old 15-11-2009, 12:42
Ignazio
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sorry i dont agree

they were right

phil made a big mistake in his dance and they based it on that otherwise wots the point of taking into considertaion all the other weeks they might aswell not have a dance off
But they applied a different criteria to Ali and Brian.

On that occasion they took into account past performance and potential.

Phil was a far more natural dancer than the rather wooden and hunched up Ricky G.
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Old 15-11-2009, 12:42
mossy2103
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I quite agree that was shocking, who the hell does he think he is.
Well, he is the Head Judge, as agreed by the BBC. So he was "only doing his job" according to the rules which are in place (and therefore, like it or not, the dance off rules are followed each week).

Maybe you saw it as shocking because you felt that Phil should have remained based upon what you saw. Len felt that Ricky should remain based upon what he saw.
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Old 15-11-2009, 12:44
mossy2103
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sorry i dont agree

they were right

phil made a big mistake in his dance and they based it on that otherwise wots the point of taking into considertaion all the other weeks they might aswell not have a dance off
Yes, that's the important thing that should be borne in mind.
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Old 15-11-2009, 12:47
c4k
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Yes, that's the important thing that should be borne in mind.
sorry to go OT but mossy you do know there is a multiquote feature??
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Old 15-11-2009, 12:54
mossy2103
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sorry to go OT but mossy you do know there is a multiquote feature??
Yes (although if I do it, I tend to do such things manually), but on this occasion I was catching up with a number of earlier posts (in fact, the whole thread from the beginning), so it would have been less easy for me to remember each part of post for which I wanted to compose a reply, and would require a degree of trawling backwards & forwards (sorry, that's the way that I work). I saw a point, and I replied. After further reading, I saw another point and replied to that one.

Back to the thread (having generated two extra posts) .........
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