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So what did Joe call Craig then? |
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#51 |
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Join Date: Oct 2005
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If he said it - and as this is the Daily Heil, I am yet to be convinced - then yes, very stupid.
Not least because he now risks the wrath of Rihanoff! |
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#52 |
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Cologne Germany
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I was disappointed to read Joe's comment and as he did not say what he said to the producers about Craig we will never know if there is any thruth to his claim. I felt very sorry for Phil this week as he did not deserve to leave the show. Phil, remember, actually danced after having surgery on his knee with no fuss, tears or drama and did a good job. I thought he danced beautifully this week and was shocked and amazed when he was voted out of the dance-off. I do not understand in this computer age why the BBC cannot produce the exact number of phone votes received by each celeb each week. There is no excuse or logical reason to refuse to produce these figures!! I also felt more comfortable about SCD voting system when a percentage went to Children in Need. Now it all goes to the BBC.
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#53 |
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Cologne Germany
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You must have a very short memory.
Blue Peter - fixed phone-in competition - people kept phoning in when the winner was chosen. Ant and Dec's Saturday Night Takeaway - fixed phone-in competition - - people kept phoning in when the winner was chosen. GMTV - fixed phone in competition - the biggest ever fine handed out if I recall - - people kept phoning in when the winner was chosen. BBC Cookery show - a prerecorded competition when it was supposed to be live. Deal or No Deal - fixed phone-in competition - people kept phoning in when the winner was chosen. Richard and Judy - fixed phone-in competition - people kept phoning in when the winner was chosen. It's happened many times so it's easy to rig stuff, mislead the public, although it's possible the BBC and other stations have learned from the error of their ways. SCD and The X Factor never reveal how many people have voted for a couple or singer so you'll never find out if the votes are manipulated. I'm not saying it happens but there's no transparency. Put it like this - if the BBC can rig Blue Peter they can do it for SCD! |
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#54 |
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Join Date: May 2005
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Very good post. How true and sad in this day and age you cannot trust anyone!! I cannot vote as I do not live in England but I would refuse to vote if I felt the whole show was rigged. What has been the official excuse as to why they cannot produce the exact number of votes each celeb has received on X Factor and Strictly?? Does anyone know??????
TXF does release viewer's voting figures - after the series has finished. SCD has said it won't - possibly because it would highlight how the judges' deliberately vote to counteract the public's favourites. Might that change in the new era of the BBC being more open? Who knows ...
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#55 |
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Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Away with the faries
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You must have a very short memory.
Blue Peter - fixed phone-in competition - people kept phoning in when the winner was chosen. Ant and Dec's Saturday Night Takeaway - fixed phone-in competition - - people kept phoning in when the winner was chosen. GMTV - fixed phone in competition - the biggest ever fine handed out if I recall - - people kept phoning in when the winner was chosen. BBC Cookery show - a prerecorded competition when it was supposed to be live. Deal or No Deal - fixed phone-in competition - people kept phoning in when the winner was chosen. Richard and Judy - fixed phone-in competition - people kept phoning in when the winner was chosen. It's happened many times so it's easy to rig stuff, mislead the public, although it's possible the BBC and other stations have learned from the error of their ways. SCD and The X Factor never reveal how many people have voted for a couple or singer so you'll never find out if the votes are manipulated. I'm not saying it happens but there's no transparency. Put it like this - if the BBC can rig Blue Peter they can do it for SCD! It is precisely because of this kind of scandal that the BBC now try to be whiter than white. SCD even got auditors KPMG in to carried out an independent analysis of the new scoring system. It is also why SCD no longer supports CIN every week. After the BBC's incidents there was a huge review and no one would dare try to fix something these days. But I think people are possibly misunderstanding a bit about this article. I don't think Joe would have said anything negative about Craig because they were friends. The argument Joe had with the producers probably saw him sticking up for Craig over the way the judges were commenting on Craig's performances - remember the judges rarely said anything positive about Craig's dancing from the very start of the series. I think Joe is saying he was eliminated from the show for sticking up for Craig and that is where his allegation of fixing comes from (which is just rubbish). |
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#56 |
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Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 660
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I do not understand in this computer age why the BBC cannot produce the exact number of phone votes received by each celeb each week. There is no excuse or logical reason to refuse to produce these figures!! I also felt more comfortable about SCD voting system when a percentage went to Children in Need. Now it all goes to the BBC.
[quote=Dancing Girl;36724112]Very good post. How true and sad in this day and age you cannot trust anyone!! I cannot vote as I do not live in England but I would refuse to vote if I felt the whole show was rigged. What has been the official excuse as to why they cannot produce the exact number of votes each celeb has received on X Factor and Strictly?? Does anyone know??????[/QUOTE] Of course they can produce the exact number of votes - how else would they be able to say which celebs are in the DO or not? They choose not to publish the votes. |
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#57 |
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Join Date: Oct 2009
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There is transparency because the BBC employs PromoVeritas Ltd (an independent verification service) to oversee the voting, in fact there is an interview with the guy who actually does it on Greytop's thread.
It is precisely because of this kind of scandal that the BBC now try to be whiter than white. SCD even got auditors KPMG in to carried out an independent analysis of the new scoring system. It is also why SCD no longer supports CIN every week. After the BBC's incidents there was a huge review and no one would dare try to fix something these days. But I think people are possibly misunderstanding a bit about this article. I don't think Joe would have said anything negative about Craig because they were friends. The argument Joe had with the producers probably saw him sticking up for Craig over the way the judges were commenting on Craig's performances - remember the judges rarely said anything positive about Craig's dancing from the very start of the series. I think Joe is saying he was eliminated from the show for sticking up for Craig and that is where his allegation of fixing comes from (which is just rubbish). He said this: Mr Calzaghe, 37, declined to say what he had said to upset producers, simply insisting: 'I know it's down to something I said about Craig Kelly. 'It was worse than a swear word. They were really angry with me. I assumed that he had said something negative about Craig but its not impossible to believe that the Mail have edited an entire conversation to push their anti BBC agenda. |
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#58 |
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Join Date: Nov 2006
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Two points about vote disclosure on SCD -
1. The BBC has said it confirmed with the Information Commissioner that it is not obliged to disclose information about the public vote because it can be considered commercially sensitive information. 2. The BBC has said it doesn't disclose information about the public vote because it can influence for whom who someone might vote. I can see its point because for example, people might not bother voting at all if they knew someone was really far ahead every week. This is different for ITV because it makes money from the phone calls. |
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#59 |
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Join Date: Nov 2006
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Now that is an interesting take on the article. I love a good conspiracy!
He said this: Mr Calzaghe, 37, declined to say what he had said to upset producers, simply insisting: 'I know it's down to something I said about Craig Kelly. 'It was worse than a swear word. They were really angry with me. I assumed that he had said something negative about Craig but its not impossible to believe that the Mail have edited an entire conversation to push their anti BBC agenda.
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#60 |
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Join Date: Oct 2009
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You see what I mean then?
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#61 |
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Join Date: Nov 2006
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#62 |
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Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 5,704
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[quote=Lurksalot;36724214]It covers the cost of running the vote - the BBC do not make a profit from the calls. This is the reason why calls for SCD are so cheap compared to ITV shows which make a profit on them. Quote:
Very good post. How true and sad in this day and age you cannot trust anyone!! I cannot vote as I do not live in England but I would refuse to vote if I felt the whole show was rigged. What has been the official excuse as to why they cannot produce the exact number of votes each celeb has received on X Factor and Strictly?? Does anyone know??????[/QUOTE]
Of course they can produce the exact number of votes - how else would they be able to say which celebs are in the DO or not? They choose not to publish the votes. I'm not saying if I think it's right or wrong, just that I believe this to be the rationale they use for not publishing the voting numbers. ETA I've just seen Lurksalot's post verifying that this is part of the reason . |
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#63 |
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Join Date: May 2002
Location: Middlesex (London South)
Posts: 493
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You must have a very short memory.
Blue Peter - fixed phone-in competition - people kept phoning in when the winner was chosen. Ant and Dec's Saturday Night Takeaway - fixed phone-in competition - - people kept phoning in when the winner was chosen. GMTV - fixed phone in competition - the biggest ever fine handed out if I recall - - people kept phoning in when the winner was chosen. BBC Cookery show - a prerecorded competition when it was supposed to be live. Deal or No Deal - fixed phone-in competition - people kept phoning in when the winner was chosen. Richard and Judy - fixed phone-in competition - people kept phoning in when the winner was chosen. It's happened many times so it's easy to rig stuff, mislead the public, although it's possible the BBC and other stations have learned from the error of their ways. SCD and The X Factor never reveal how many people have voted for a couple or singer so you'll never find out if the votes are manipulated. I'm not saying it happens but there's no transparency. Put it like this - if the BBC can rig Blue Peter they can do it for SCD! Last edited by Curly : 17-11-2009 at 14:48. Reason: legal |
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#64 |
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Join Date: Aug 2006
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Regardless of whether or not Calzaghe was a poor dancer (which IMO he was) there still could have been a fix.
It's about time these type of shows were independently investigated because there is a lot of smoke about both SCD and XF. I wouldn't trust the Beebs execs as far as I could throw their expense sheets. |
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#65 |
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Join Date: May 2007
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...
It's about time these type of shows were independently investigated ... |
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#66 |
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Regardless of whether or not Calzaghe was a poor dancer (which IMO he was) there still could have been a fix.
It's about time these type of shows were independently investigated because there is a lot of smoke about both SCD and XF. I wouldn't trust the Beebs execs as far as I could throw their expense sheets. As Buddy has detailed, the voting on Strictly is independently verified. There is no investigation to hold and the smoke you refer to can only be a reference to not releasing the public's voting preferences, the reasons for which are clear. Up to you to believe what you like regarding BBC execs - but all the facts would indicate that Strictly is not fixed. |
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#67 |
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Join Date: Oct 2009
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Sorry to burst your bubble - but there couldn't have been a fix. Not unless the BBC has a death-wish - and right now it's fighting to survive ... so that's hardly likely.
As Buddy has detailed, the voting on Strictly is independently verified. There is no investigation to hold and the smoke you refer to can only be a reference to not releasing the public's voting preferences, the reasons for which are clear. Up to you to believe what you like regarding BBC execs - but all the facts would indicate that Strictly is not fixed. |
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#68 |
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Join Date: May 2008
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I can't see Joe Calzaghe's argument. The fact that he stayed for five weeks is surely proof that there was no fix.
Unless the fix was an arrangement to inflate his public vote and keep him in at the expense of better competitors. However...I was going to mention the Tuffers vote before, but don't like to stir up trouble and get almost the entire forum on my back. But as others have broken the ice, I might as well wade in. ![]() I don't generally believe conspiracy theories, but it was very "convenient" for the BBC that Laila avoided the dance-off. That does make me suspicious, particularly if you take into account the supposedly leaked voting figures from three weeks ago. If those are true, Chris Hollins was the public favourite with Phil Tufnell his (quote) "only serious rival". Even allowing for the sympathy vote, it is difficult (but not impossible, I grant you) to believe that Laila suddenly polled more votes. Of course the "leak" could be complete rubbish, but it was quoted in a few "respectable" publications, not just the Star. Another article from weeks ago also springs to mind. I'm always interested in the betting, so tend to look at sites like "Entertainmentodds" for guidance. You apparently can't cut and paste, but scroll down to their entry of October 20.." it's not impossible some contrivance could take place" etc. Remember, they have no interest who wins, they are just trying to predict the results..so no axe to grind. http://www.entertainmentodds.com/ |
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#69 |
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Join Date: Nov 2008
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And hopefully it wasn't something against Craig as I'm not being funny but even woodentop was slightly better than Joe!!
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The whole thing would make more sense if Joe had said something about the other Craig (RH) - he was annoyed about his comments, but always talked about Craig K as his 'mate'.
I wonder if some reporter has his/her wires crossed. "Don't you think it's odd we went out when we were in the bottom for four weeks and the public kept voting for us? 'We had the highest votes every week, the producers told us. 'Then all of a sudden we lost out in the judges' vote. Something was up." Conveniently, he has forgotten the early weeks when Craig didnt have the highest votes and ended up in the dance off twice, but apart from that he is allying with Craig not speaking out against him. I've racked my brain to think what "worse than a swear word" could mean, but obviously as the context of the article is Joe claiming the dance off was "fixed" we can only conclude it has legal implications. I can't see how there wont be a case here. Either Joe suing the DM for misreporting, or the beeb suing Joe and the DM for libel. And if it is the latter, I guess we can say goodbye to Kristina. |
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#70 |
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Two points about vote disclosure on SCD -
1. The BBC has said it confirmed with the Information Commissioner that it is not obliged to disclose information about the public vote because it can be considered commercially sensitive information. 2. The BBC has said it doesn't disclose information about the public vote because it can influence for whom who someone might vote. I can see its point because for example, people might not bother voting at all if they knew someone was really far ahead every week. This is different for ITV because it makes money from the phone calls. |
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#71 |
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The problem is that neither reason is a logical reason. Point 2 could be dealt with by revealing stats only after the end of the whole competition (as with X Factor). So far as point 1 is concerned, actual numbers might be commercially sensitive - for eg revealing that fewer and fewer people are voting over succeeding series. However, the usual way round this is to reveal percentages of the total vote to each contestant. That way the public gain reassurance but actual figures are withheld. Of course, if the real reason the votes are withheld even after the series is over, is that even percentages would reveal to what extent the judges vote is inverse to the public vote the reluctance to reveal this info is understandable and unforgivable! I wish someone would mount a FOI challenge to this practice.
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#72 |
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Join Date: Nov 2006
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Hilarious
What is it with deluded celebs this series? They may be C list but their egos are well and truly intact. Gave me a laugh today anyway. Do hope we find out what Joe said about Craig! |
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#73 |
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I also felt more comfortable about SCD voting system when a percentage went to Children in Need. Now it all goes to the BBC.
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BBC competitions and votes will not be run in order to make a profit. The only time BBC competitions or votes will be aimed at raising funds will be for a BBC charitable initiative.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/guidelines/edit...ing/code.shtmlI think you'll find find that the cost to the caller is less than it was when a proportion went to CiN. |
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#74 |
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I don't generally believe conspiracy theories, but it was very "convenient" for the BBC that Laila avoided the dance-off. That does make me suspicious, particularly if you take into account the supposedly leaked voting figures from three weeks ago. If those are true, Chris Hollins was the public favourite with Phil Tufnell his (quote) "only serious rival". Even allowing for the sympathy vote, it is difficult (but not impossible, I grant you) to believe that Laila suddenly polled more votes. Of course the "leak" could be complete rubbish, but it was quoted in a few "respectable" publications, not just the Star.
Phil danced first when fewer people are watching - that really matters - and got praise from the judges. Plus that very leak will have made people think they didn't need to vote for him. I'm really sad that Phil's gone, and much as I like Ricky G too I expected the judges to save Phil. But Phil was very near the bottom of the leaderboard - it doesn't need a conspiracy to explain it. |
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#75 |
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Join Date: May 2007
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The problem is that neither reason is a logical reason. Point 2 could be dealt with by revealing stats only after the end of the whole competition (as with X Factor). So far as point 1 is concerned, actual numbers might be commercially sensitive - for eg revealing that fewer and fewer people are voting over succeeding series. However, the usual way round this is to reveal percentages of the total vote to each contestant. That way the public gain reassurance but actual figures are withheld. Of course, if the real reason the votes are withheld even after the series is over, is that even percentages would reveal to what extent the judges vote is inverse to the public vote the reluctance to reveal this info is understandable and unforgivable! I wish someone would mount a FOI challenge to this practice.
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