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Old 30-11-2009, 20:37
TomDaOne
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there will always be good and bad music around, an eclectic taste and an open mind-you'll find the good stuff
Precisely. Certain people have no interest in opening themselves up to new and different music which is outside their comfort zone in a hope of finding something brillaint. Which would happen.
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Old 30-11-2009, 20:48
TomDaOne
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Just because an act is modern,doesn't mean it's not "proper" music. I honestly find that incredibly patronising and quite insulting to tell an entire generation that our music isn't "proper" music.
This term "proper music" is quite ridiculous really. As opposed to what? Not proper music?

You also get the brigade who can't help but pipe up about how "that's not real music" in response to anything that's electronic (like various dance music genres) or uses drum machines and samples (Hip-Hop) because its not produced by humans playing musical instruments. Bollocks to that, it's still music.
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Old 30-11-2009, 22:02
TomDaOne
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He / she probably meant artists like John Lennon, Paul McCartney, Jimi Hendrix, Brian Wilson, David Bowie, Jim Morrison, Syd Barrett, Bob Dylan, Pete Townshend and the many other brilliant songwriters who were around in the 60s. The list is impressively long compared to what's on offer today.
Here's some modern solo artists/bands who's songwriting and music I rate:

Arcade Fire
Arctic Monkeys
Bloc Party
Coldplay
Editors
Elbow
Muse
Hard-Fi
Longview
Bat For Lashes
M.I.A.
Tom McRae
Damien Rice
Laura Marling

Eminem
Jay-Z
Nas
Kanye West
Common
Robin Thicke
Ne-Yo
Dizzee Rascal (especially his earlier work)

The Streets (Mike Skinner) - Who's debut album "Original Pirate Material" is being played tomorrow night in full on Radio 1 as part of Radio 1's Masterpiece albums across this week. Seriously suggest anyone to listen to it.
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Old 01-12-2009, 01:20
MartinJ
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Here's some modern solo artists/bands who's songwriting and music I rate:

Arcade Fire
Arctic Monkeys
Bloc Party
Coldplay
Editors
Elbow
Muse
Hard-Fi
Longview
Bat For Lashes
M.I.A.
Tom McRae
Damien Rice
Laura Marling

Eminem
Jay-Z
Nas
Kanye West
Common
Robin Thicke
Ne-Yo
Dizzee Rascal (especially his earlier work)

The Streets (Mike Skinner) - Who's debut album "Original Pirate Material" is being played tomorrow night in full on Radio 1 as part of Radio 1's Masterpiece albums across this week. Seriously suggest anyone to listen to it.
I thought most of your choices quite... well to be honest 'crap'. However, I wanted to give you the benefit of the doubt. I'd never heard of this "The Streets (Mike Skinner)" so I decided to investigate. Presuming this is the chap you are talking about:

http://video.google.co.uk/videosearc...9836694&view=2

Oh dear, it sounded like a glorified mobile phone advert - very little talent in my opinion (and that's all music preference is, personal opinion).

And before you try to point out that I'm probably an old fuddy duddy who hates hip hop I should mention that one of my all time favourite tracks is this
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Old 01-12-2009, 10:20
FERAL SHARKEY
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heard an interesting comment ,
bands /solo artists used to have hits that reached low in the charts and as they became better known would get higher positions and today its the reverse ,
groups start high in the charts or produce a song that is the fastest selling etc and then gradually fall of the radar almost or alltogether in some cases .

i think bands no longer grow or get to follow their own route or perhaps just want to pile em high sell em low and bow out ,
theres defiantely (well imho ) a formula apearing for each genre of music that seems driven by commercial success these days the really exceptional bands rarely get mentioned or heard in favour of sickeningly catchy tunes with really simple lyrics
that are hyped up to epitomise being modern young and stylish .
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Old 01-12-2009, 18:14
Slick Nick
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Precisely. Certain people have no interest in opening themselves up to new and different music which is outside their comfort zone in a hope of finding something brillaint. Which would happen.
For the tenth time, we have tried pro-actively to find good modern music and failed in our quest. With open minds we have come across one barrier of shit after another.

Apart from where metal is concerned.
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Old 01-12-2009, 18:42
TomDaOne
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For the tenth time, we have tried pro-actively to find good modern music and failed in our quest. With open minds we have come across one barrier of shit after another.

Apart from where metal is concerned.
More likely you don't want to like new things and how hard do you really try to find new music. Do you go to small local gigs to investigate unknown bands? Do you listen to Radio 1 in the evening/late night where it's specialist shows come on to showcase that which is very new and exciting? Do you seek out stuff on the Internet, through sites like myspae or even YouTube (for example).

You say also apart from where "metal" is concerned. Now is that to say that metal and anything similar is the only music you like?

Finally what the hell is this posting in bold all about.
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Old 01-12-2009, 19:41
Slick Nick
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[b]More likely you don't want to like new things and how hard do you really try to find new music. Do you go to small local gigs to investigate unknown bands? Do you listen to Radio 1 in the evening/late night where it's specialist shows come on to showcase that which is very new and exciting? Do you seek out stuff on the Internet, through sites like myspae or even YouTube (for example).

Long post warning.

Gigs - probably been to more this decade than the average person will attend in their lives. I used to play in a band which ended 5 years ago, so was exposed to plenty of crap music that way. I did discover the band that released one of my favourite records of the decade though at a gig but it's very rare that a band I'd never heard will blow me away at a gig.

Radio - never. I still think radio, like the output of any proper music label (ie. not some teenager releasing albums from his garage), will be governed by a few old men sitting in a board room in London or LA.

Internet - indeed, I read other music forums. I use youtube everyday but it's not ideal because of the shit sound quality, and the same goes for Myspace and in some instances, last.fm. Even then, only about 5% of all the songs I hear will grab me and make me want to hear more. I use Wiki and allmusic.com to read up about specific bands/albums. I've also used the various Rolling Stone guides to get into specific albums or artists, plus I have a few of the 33 1/3 books which each cover specific significant albums across all genres.

The point is, I have access to every band and genre that you could possibly imagine and use every channel to uncover musical gold... it's been very hard to find from bands releasing albums this decade, however I cite metal as the contrary because a few albums have popped up (eg. by Killswitch Engage, Machine Head. Hatebreed, Shadows Fall) that will be considered landmarks even 10 years from now.

I don't just listen to metal. I've got everything from Frankie Valli to Cattle Decapitation on my iTunes and everything in between.
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Old 01-12-2009, 20:03
TomDaOne
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I thought most of your choices quite... well to be honest 'crap'.
Thanks......

However, I wanted to give you the benefit of the doubt. I'd never heard of this "The Streets (Mike Skinner)" so I decided to investigate. Presuming this is the chap you are talking about:

http://video.google.co.uk/videosearc...9836694&view=2

Oh dear, it sounded like a glorified mobile phone advert - very little talent in my opinion (and that's all music preference is, personal opinion).
I'm not sure which of those links you are referring to.

The very top link is a Mini Mix from Annie Mac's Radio 1 show. She has an music artist/band do one for her everyweek. It's simply a five minute mix and they can throw as many different tracks into the pot, to create their five minute mix

The second down is "Lets push things foward" from that classic debut album "Original Pirate Material".

I also see Slow Songs by Giggs (another upcoming British rapper, has quite a slow, measured rapping style, but he is a compelling listen).


And before you try to point out that I'm probably an old fuddy duddy who hates hip hop I should mention that one of my all time favourite tracks is this
I'm not familiar with that Ice-T track myself, but genuinely
thanks for introducing it to me because I really liked.

I've got to say I'm more aware of modern Hip-Hop. Late nineties, but mostly this decade. I do feel I'm guilty of not going back to investigate more of the "old school Hip-Hop", though I am aware of some of it.

The acts that I mentioned which you thought were "not good", included the rappers I mentioned. Including Jay-Z, Nas, Common and Eminem. Now those four stand out to me. All are top notch lyricists and all have produced classic songs and/or albums (that at the very least Hip-Hop fans should remember and appreciate. They don't seem so different from Ice-T to me.

As for the Streets (again), here's one of my favourites of his. This track opened his debut album and is imagination-inspiring and lyrically deep in my opinion.

Turn The Page.
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Old 01-12-2009, 20:15
alan29
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Songs about "Me, me , me" - who cares?
Poor unmemorable melodies disguised by singers over-emoting.
Songs get stuck in a key - boredom sets in.
Trivial "lyrics."
Its all about the money, not at all about the craft of song-writing and singing.
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Old 01-12-2009, 20:38
TomDaOne
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Long post warning.

Gigs - probably been to more this decade than the average person will attend in their lives. I used to play in a band which ended 5 years ago, so was exposed to plenty of crap music that way. I did discover the band that released one of my favourite records of the decade though at a gig but it's very rare that a band I'd never heard will blow me away at a gig.
Ok fair enough.

Radio - never. I still think radio, like the output of any proper music label (ie. not some teenager releasing albums from his garage), will be governed by a few old men sitting in a board room in London or LA.
Disagree with this. It might well be the case for day time radio which is playlist based to be chosen the way you mentioned. But do Radio 1 DJ's like Pete Tong, Mary Anne Hobbs, Rob Da Bank and many others get told by some big wigs what to bring to their respective listeners. I personally think not.

Internet - indeed, I read other music forums. I use youtube everyday but it's not ideal because of the shit sound quality, and the same goes for Myspace and in some instances, last.fm. Even then, only about 5% of all the songs I hear will grab me and make me want to hear more. I use Wiki and allmusic.com to read up about specific bands/albums. I've also used the various Rolling Stone guides to get into specific albums or artists, plus I have a few of the 33 1/3 books which each cover specific significant albums across all genres.
Great good for you.


The point is, I have access to every band and genre that you could possibly imagine and use every channel to uncover musical gold... it's been very hard to find from bands releasing albums this decade, however I cite metal as the contrary because a few albums have popped up (eg. by Killswitch Engage, Machine Head. Hatebreed, Shadows Fall) that will be considered landmarks even 10 years from now.
Yes and I feel their are albums of other genres that will be remembered and reflected positively, equally as long.


I don't just listen to metal. I've got everything from Frankie Valli to Cattle Decapitation on my iTunes and everything in between.
Ok... I had to youtube those acts as I was not familiar with either. I think I could definitely grow and interest in Frankie Valli. As for Cattle Decapition. ****ing awesome.

I am trying to work out what would be considered "everything between" those two acts though.

Anyway, I like a bit of a Pandemic Hyperblast...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B6349Q-67eA
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Old 01-12-2009, 20:42
Jon Ross
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As Morrissey once said when asked about his musical heroes - 'they're all dead'.
To be fair, quoting Morrissey is quite pointless as he's always had a miserable outlook on the music scene. He did in the '80s when he was criticising, rightly or wrongly, all the pop stars of the era. So this is nothing new. That quote in particular is Morrissey talking utter rubbish, as three of his biggest musical heroes are Sandie Shaw, Iggy Pop and David Johansen and they are all still alive.
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Old 01-12-2009, 21:01
Jon Ross
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That's very true Most of Ringo's albums were weak, he made one classic though; some of Ringo's albums bombed and were actually deleted.
Ringo was never much of a songwriter. He was the least important creative influence in The Beatles, although he is an underrated drummer by some people. However, being an ex-Beatle goes a long way. I recall seeing him on Friday Night with Jonathan Ross plugging a dreadful song, although he was otherwise a good guest to talk to. I can think of artists with far better songs that never get invited onto TV shows like that. But being an ex-Beatle, like I say, goes a long way, especially since only two of them are still alive now.
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Old 01-12-2009, 21:15
Jon Ross
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I haven't got a problem with covers, some excel at them. The problem for me is that they can become boring and mechanical in the hands of unimaginative acts such as Westlife and Cowell's performers.

Their complete dependency on old material is essential, because most of them couldn't write a decent song if they tried. To compound this lack of ability, their cover versions are usually pale imitations of the originals.
The best covers are often covers of songs that were not so successful to begin with. It's a bit like something Michael Caine once said about remaking films: If you remake a good film, you’re on a hiding to nothing.

Unfortunately, the kind of artists you are talking about rely on tried and tested songs like Unchained Melody and Sorry Seems to be the Hardest Word. Records that have already been established as classics and cannot be improved on.
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Old 01-12-2009, 21:20
Jon Ross
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Totally spot on! It seems like all the fun has gone out of music with all the self-rightous bands and electro-pop divas who are oh so serious and "all about the music". Lighten up, you're making a pop record not bringing world peace! People just want to listen to music to have fun and relax. No one really cares about your motivation or your inspirations
Ah, so we have it. Geldof, Bono and Sting are to blame!
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Old 01-12-2009, 21:46
MartinJ
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Hehe, I was drunk when I posted that so appologies if it was more 'offensive' than it was intended to be.

I'm not sure which of those links you are referring to.

The very top link is a Mini Mix from Annie Mac's Radio 1 show. She has an music artist/band do one for her everyweek. It's simply a five minute mix and they can throw as many different tracks into the pot, to create their five minute mix

The second down is "Lets push things foward" from that classic debut album "Original Pirate Material".

I also see Slow Songs by Giggs (another upcoming British rapper, has quite a slow, measured rapping style, but he is a compelling listen).
Links links! I love listening to new stuff so get them posted!

I'm not familiar with that Ice-T track myself, but genuinely
thanks for introducing it to me because I really liked.
Fantastic - Ice T was and is a legend. I do hope you try to check out some of his other stuff if you are not famliar with it. You may have realised allready but the back beat is sampled from Black Sabbaths "Black Sabbath" another classic - although maybe not to your tastes.

That track is from OG:Original Gangster which is a superb album often often regarded as one of the defining albums of the genre. Funny, sad, angry and most of all full of emotion.

I've got to say I'm more aware of modern Hip-Hop. Late nineties, but mostly this decade. I do feel I'm guilty of not going back to investigate more of the "old school Hip-Hop", though I am aware of some of it.
I'm the opposite. Have very little knowledge of the more modern stuff - but happy to check it out if you have some recommendations.

The acts that I mentioned which you thought were "not good", included the rappers I mentioned. Including Jay-Z, Nas, Common and Eminem. Now those four stand out to me. All are top notch lyricists and all have produced classic songs and/or albums (that at the very least Hip-Hop fans should remember and appreciate. They don't seem so different from Ice-T to me.
Hmmm perhaps I should revisit some.

As for the Streets (again), here's one of my favourites of his. This track opened his debut album and is imagination-inspiring and lyrically deep in my opinion.

Turn The Page.
I gave that a listen. Still wasn't convinced. I did realise about two thirds of the way through that I was more listening to the beat rather than the words, so started it again and concentrated on what he was saying. I suppose I can see why you might like it. He has a pretty engaging rythem to the lyrics but I just think it is poorly executed.

I'll persevere and check some of his other tracks.

Do you like other genres too - if you are looking for some suggestions of other stuff to listen to I can provide some of my all time favourites - although I like many varied styles so you might hate a lot of them.
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Old 01-12-2009, 21:53
MartinJ
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I'd never heard of Cattle Decapitation either and youtubed them:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k3LXOtI-WFk

Bloody excellent - very 'Cradle of Filth'.
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Old 01-12-2009, 23:45
Gorky
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I think Cattle Decapitation are shit, but then that's not the sort of music I like.

All this "boo hoo I can't find any modern music I like" is tedious because it doesn't prove anything about the merits of modern music at all. There's been plenty of good music this decade, some of it as good as anything that's been produced before imo. Whether it's to your taste or you've even heard it is another thing altogether.

And no, I'm not going to list artists/albums to try to please your taste and prove my point because I don't need to and it's usually a futile exercise anyway. Unfortunately it does take more effort to find the better music than it used to but that's just the way it is these days with the way the music industry/trends/technology has gone and we just have to live with it.
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Old 01-12-2009, 23:49
MartinJ
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I think Cattle Decapitation are shit, but then that's not the sort of music I like.

All this "boo hoo I can't find any modern music I like" is tedious because it doesn't prove anything about the merits of modern music at all. There's been plenty of good music this decade, some of it as good as anything that's been produced before imo. Whether it's to your taste or you've even heard it is another thing altogether.

And no, I'm not going to list artists/albums to try to please your taste and prove my point because I don't need to and it's usually a futile exercise anyway. Unfortunately it does take more effort to find the better music than it used to but that's just the way it is these days with the way the music industry/trends/technology has gone and we just have to live with it.
I think you have a point.

I don't think there is a lack of good music - I think there is a breakdown in how music is presented to the public.

We are flooded with crap, and insulated from the decent innovative artists because it's not as easy to make money from them.

It's frustrating though - I love music, always have. I'm finding it difficult to find new and interesting bands though.
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Old 02-12-2009, 00:37
Jon Ross
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It's frustrating though - I love music, always have. I'm finding it difficult to find new and interesting bands though.
You might want to try Word Magazine. They provide a CD with each issue that gives exposure mainly to artists who do not get exposure on commercial radio and music television.
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Old 02-12-2009, 07:23
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What people hear on the radio and see on some of the music channels (Especially the EMAP ones e.g. The Box, E4) is only a small part of the music industry.

It's all the coporate acts who are either a) hyped to the hilt b) X-Factor contestants will Simon Cowell paying off the independant UK media to hype the song and c) On mega labels that are heard all the time and the public thinks the music industry begins and ends there.

The average person wouldn't go on Youtube or on an Indie music site when browsing the net or attend a gig with a unknown artist on an Indie label, because they are ignorant and "bought" by what they see. Listening to the radio at work, I'd want to hear the likes of Paloma Faith, Gary Go, Tommy Sparks to name but a few instead of the X-Factor winners/rejects and Kings of Bloody Leon's masscares. The thing is, it's not allowed as those acts are not commerical enough and the massess won't like it.

If you look harder, there is a LOT of good artists out there. For those pop/soul fans on this forum, check out Shena - a disco diva which is a step back to the 1970s
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Old 02-12-2009, 09:19
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Ringo was never much of a songwriter. He was the least important creative influence in The Beatles, although he is an underrated drummer by some people. However, being an ex-Beatle goes a long way. I recall seeing him on Friday Night with Jonathan Ross plugging a dreadful song, although he was otherwise a good guest to talk to. I can think of artists with far better songs that never get invited onto TV shows like that. But being an ex-Beatle, like I say, goes a long way, especially since only two of them are still alive now.
Oh, he makes a very good interview does Ringo! Hasn't lost any of his charm since Beatle interviews I've seen from the 60s. A yes your right, I love him, but he isn't really a songwriter. And I don't feel bad about saying that, because he thinks it too! I do love Liverpool 8 and Octopus' Garden though.

Thinking about Ringo........ I do agree that a lot of the problem with modern music is lack of charm and sense of humour.
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Old 02-12-2009, 09:38
Iceman09
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The problem with the music industry nowadays is that it's all about style and no substance. I mean you look at the Britney fans they don't give a shit if she mimes or not "It's all about the show." They also don't care if she's been auto tuned. The 50's and 60's was all about the music, the 70's and 80's was about the music and the visual aspects of performance which was fine as the music aspect was still there. 90's and 00's its all about style and the way you look as opposed to the music. Hell you do well if your a known name, even if your music is pap!
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Old 02-12-2009, 11:39
MartinJ
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You might want to try Word Magazine. They provide a CD with each issue that gives exposure mainly to artists who do not get exposure on commercial radio and music television.
Thanks - I'll check it out next time I am in town.

I looked at their website and they had this on it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fwyj3...layer_embedded

I really liked it, but suspect it's actually a piss take
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Old 02-12-2009, 17:16
Slick Nick
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T 90's and 00's its all about style and the way you look as opposed to the music. Hell you do well if your a known name, even if your music is pap!

I won't have a bad word said about the 90s.

Nirvana's 'Nevermind'
Pearl Jam's 'Ten'
Greenday's 'Dookie'
Offspring's 'Smash'
Bad Religion's 'Against The Grain'
Machine Head's 'Burn My Eyes'
Prodigy's 'Fat of The Land'
Rancid's '...And Out Come The Wolves'
Sunny Day Real Estate's 'Diary'
Fugazi's 'Repeater'

All class albums.

Oh, and Oasis were good in that decade as well.
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