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Chris and Ola's Charleston was better than Ali and Brian's!


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Old 29-11-2009, 11:15
BuddyBontheNet
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I finally 'got' Chris and Ola - that Charleston should have topped the leader board.

I couldn't see myself voting after Jade left the competition through injury, but that dance put such a smile on my face, my fingers just kept on walking until I dialled their phone number.

Also loved Laila and Anton tonight.
Took you long enough! My two favourites were Jade and Chris from the start!

Many thanks for the detailed answer, I appreciate you taking the time. I have only seen the film version of Chicago, we have that on DVD, so I must take another look.
I see where you are coming from now, but still think calling Chris and Ola's effort "panto" is unecessarily disparaging.
I guess it depends whether there are some elements to the Charleston that are considered compulsory or at least "de rigueur"..I suppose there must be, otherwise it would it would impossible to make any genuine comparisons.
I think you've hit the nail on the head with the bit in bold.

Before last night's show I watched loads of Charleston clips on YT and I didn't see anything in Chris and Ola's Charleston that I hadn't seen done in those clips - even the swimming move!

I did think there was a story in Cola's dance and I think they captured the fun of the dance perfectly, as well as doing lots of basic Charleston steps - Ola did them better than Chris, but they were danced. One of the most popular songs from the 1930's was 'Anything Goes' (originally from the Broadway show) and I think that's the case with the Charleston!

I can understand why the judges marked Ali higher than Chris, but I preferred Cola's dance, just as I preferred Ali & Brian's dance to Laila & Anton's which I liked too.

Each to their own, but I don't feel the need to say nasty things about any of the couples as I enjoyed them all dancing the Charleston.
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Old 29-11-2009, 11:19
Servalan
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My understanding was they were given the basics of the choreography and the pro worked from there?
But Ola said she had never danced the Charleston before - so how could she choreograph a routine for a dance she has only just been taught? And why would she junk basic steps for a dance she doesn't know, only days after she's just learned it?

I haven't heard that before and, sorry, but it doesn't scan for me.

Plus we saw the specialists with all the couples in almost all the training footage ...
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Old 29-11-2009, 11:40
rita1
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Watching the ITT footage during the week and seeing the professionals having real trouble mastering the two new dances (especially poor Vincent!) because of their unfamiliarity with them, makes me have even more admiration for what these celebrities manage to achieve in a few months - most especially those who have had no previous dance experience. Even poor old Craig goes up in my estimation for having mastered the steps, even if the rhythm escaped him.
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Old 29-11-2009, 12:11
~CB~
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So what are these technical elements of the charleston that some think Ali and Brian's dance contained, while Chris and Ola's didn't? All I can find on wilkepedia is that the basic charleston step is a walking step and that creativity and innovation is prized above anything else. Is that true - all you dance experts?
You are correct - Charleston's basic step is very simple Tap Step Tap Step. Variations are the key to making it interesting. One of the key ones though is the swivel in the foot to give it the unique look of 20s Charleston (as opposed to Lindy Charleston that lost that element).
The Swivel is devilishly difficult to master though - The couple who teach us are some of the top swing dancers in the UK & Graeme admitted to me recently that it took him six months to master. It's no surprise to me that C&O haven't cracked it but I would have marked them down because they didn't.
I thought they were scored about right. A&B were overmarked IMHO but probably just about shaded it so 1st & 2nd on the leaderboard was fair (Laila & Anton were undermaked IMHO)
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Old 29-11-2009, 12:26
MCS
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It's all very serious, I prefer to watch people having fun knowing it could be their last dance, Ali knows if she's in the bottom 2 they will save her............I hope she don't win, they are far to boring IMO
I agree with you, she learns the dances but thats it no fun element. She bores me. And yes she dose know she'll be saved. I can't wait for her to go.
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Old 29-11-2009, 12:38
RichmondBlue
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Took you long enough! My two favourites were Jade and Chris from the start!



I think you've hit the nail on the head with the bit in bold.

Before last night's show I watched loads of Charleston clips on YT and I didn't see anything in Chris and Ola's Charleston that I hadn't seen done in those clips - even the swimming move!

I did think there was a story in Cola's dance and I think they captured the fun of the dance perfectly, as well as doing lots of basic Charleston steps - Ola did them better than Chris, but they were danced. One of the most popular songs from the 1930's was 'Anything Goes' (originally from the Broadway show) and I think that's the case with the Charleston!
I can understand why the judges marked Ali higher than Chris, but I preferred Cola's dance, just as I preferred Ali & Brian's dance to Laila & Anton's which I liked too.

Each to their own, but I don't feel the need to say nasty things about any of the couples as I enjoyed them all dancing the Charleston.
Those were my thoughts as well. I am willing to concede that there must be some basics that the judges look for in "any" Charleston, but is it so "formalised" as other more commonly recognised disciplines ?
Another point for me was the authenticity of the routine. I thought Ali and Brian's routine was arty and theatrical..but less reminiscent of the period. In fact, for me Laila and Anton appeared to capture the "mood" of those old, grainy, black and white movie shots we are used to seeing.
I also think they were all entertaining, but none of them quite captured the frenetic nature of the Charleston. Len did mention the mood they should have been trying to re-create..just after horrors of WW1, women feeling liberated, prohibition, the wild abandon of a dance that was considered risque at the time..etc, etc.

Rita: (Quote)...So what are these technical elements of the charleston that some think Ali and Brian's dance contained, while Chris and Ola's didn't? All I can find on wilkepedia is that the basic charleston step is a walking step and that creativity and innovation is prized above anything else. Is that true - all you dance experts? (quote)

Good question...anyone ?
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Old 29-11-2009, 12:45
.Mimi.
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I much preferred Chris and Ola's Charleston 10 was too much for Ali I think, though she is a lovely girl. Ali&Brian's routine was good, but I found Chris&Ola's far more entertaining.
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Old 29-11-2009, 13:12
Lorelei Lee
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I actually enjoyed all three Charlestons, but I have to say that I can't understand how anyone could think Chris and Ola did a better job than Ali and Brian.

From a purely technical point of view, Ali did all the things that the judges criticised Chris for not doing (swivelled feet, particularly). From a performance point of view, she made it look like a dance rather than 90 seconds of mucking about. After seeing Chris's I was laughing, but coming dangerously close to agreeing with Veri's earlier thread about the stupidity of the Charleston.

What really tipped it for me was that I think it's the first time all series that I've seen Ali do any sort of acting. And she was great at it. Plus Brian is an American and thus immune from the English disease of worrying about looking a prat in that kind of dance, which he threw himself into with brilliant results.
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Old 29-11-2009, 13:18
BuddyBontheNet
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...I also think they were all entertaining, but none of them quite captured the frenetic nature of the Charleston. Len did mention the mood they should have been trying to re-create..just after horrors of WW1, women feeling liberated, prohibition, the wild abandon of a dance that was considered risque at the time..etc, etc...
My husband did say he thought the Charleston was a much faster dance and I told him that was because all the old black and white films, especially the silent films look faster than they really were LOL! He already thinks he lives with the village idiot!
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Old 29-11-2009, 14:03
tonydancer
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I don't like copying my own posts onto other threads but here's my twopenny worth from a thread about Alesha's marking.

"I thought Chris & Ola's dance was a great crowd pleaser, while Ali & Brian's was a great judge pleaser. What you're underrating is the ragdoll-comes-alive storytelling, as well as the great amount of classic Charleston moves that their choreography included (e.g. the "cross legs" where the hands overtake the knees). As Bruno said, it reminded of the original flavour of that dance. I don't think that Jacqueline Baker would have been proud of it, but she would sure have enjoyed watching it.

That said, I don't dismiss Team Cola's attempt, and didn't Ola look like "to die for"?
Unfortunately for Laila, Anton (unlike Ola) didn't compromise his own performance slightly, in order to really "partner" the celeb. So however good Laila was, she couldn't match Anton, and the judges noticed her shortcomings more than with the other two Charlestons."
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Old 29-11-2009, 14:04
claire2281
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Having watched Chris and Ola again this morning, one thing I think he should have got more praise for was his timing - he and Ola were in sync throughout, particularly on the side by side movements.

I thought the routine perfectly captured the kookiness of the Charleston. Although I'm still bemused by the fact that a sports presenter can give a more entertaining performance than two actors. Neither Ricky or Ali have ever done anything where I've thought they've really captured the spirit of the dance and left themselves behind. I think that's much of their problem in fact.
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Old 29-11-2009, 14:05
hopeless case
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I thought it was a close run thing between Chris and Ola, and Laila and Anton. There was something in what Craig said about Laila but I thought their routine was closest to how I imagined a charleston should be. I think even points or a point between them either way would have been about right.

Ali and Brian's dance I just didn't like. Ali's kicks were good but that is basically all she did. I didn't see much dancing there at all. I thought the judges were far too generous with her.

In the group dance Laila and Anton shone out for me but seemed to be penalised for Anton's mastery of the floor. Ali and Brian made their mark when they blundered straight across the floor away from the judges, were seen and skillfully avoided by Anton, and then bashed straight into Ricky W. If Ali got a ten then Laila should have got about fifteen.
This is exactly how I feel. Ali is one of my favourites, but I am beginning to feel she is being overmarked, and this is always offputting.

She was awkward coming out of the lifts, and seemed uncomfortable on her injury.

As to your comments about the marking of Laila in the viennese waltz, I was shouting pretty much the same at the telly.
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Old 29-11-2009, 14:13
MadonnaMIX
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I liked both dances but i thought Chris and Ola's was the best
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Old 29-11-2009, 14:34
gorlagon
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But Ola said she had never danced the Charleston before - so how could she choreograph a routine for a dance she has only just been taught? And why would she junk basic steps for a dance she doesn't know, only days after she's just learned it?

I haven't heard that before and, sorry, but it doesn't scan for me.

Plus we saw the specialists with all the couples in almost all the training footage ...
I've seen it said a couple times on here (DavidJames? I think? Not sure, sorry) and Ricky Whittle's current blog entry seems to confirm they're given moves, rather than start-to-finish choreography.
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Old 29-11-2009, 14:53
Sparkle_Pink
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I actually liked all the Charlestons. I loved Chris's routine and it made me laugh (in a good way!) and thought Ali danced and acted hers well. So i liked them for different reasons but cant pick a favourite.
Laila's was my least favourite but i still enjoyed it.
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Old 29-11-2009, 15:16
Bhoy1888
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I liked both dances but i thought Chris and Ola's was the best
Of course it was but the judges couldn't put Chris at the top as it would have meant there was a chance that both Ali and Ricky would be in the dance off
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Old 29-11-2009, 15:37
lemonnlime09
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I thought Chris was great and very entertaining......Ali was technically better but not as entertainging.For me I want to see someone who can deliver both....perform technically well and, also put on an amazing performance......so i suppose both are lacking in one or the other and for me the winner should have both qulities.I do want to see a good dancer win,but I want to be entertained also.
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Old 29-11-2009, 16:36
lotty27
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I tuned in late and missed Chris and Ola, but I was more impressed by Laila and Anton's Charleston - and I never thought I'd say that.

I haven't thought that Ali was overmarked until tonight, but I also feel Laila and Anton deserved higher marks.
I totally agree that Ali was overmarked and Laila was undermarked (6? Come on Craig!) but I also think that Chris was undermarked too. I think he deserved all 9's.


I didn't like Ali's dance at all - much preferred Chris and Ola, and even Leila, who I don't really like.

I'm getting totally fed up with all this over-the-top praise and marking of Ali though. It's really starting to get on my nerves.
The judges definitely have their favourites and it can seriously backfire on the contestants e.g. Tom winning last year. He was a joy to watch but Rachel and Lisa were seen as better dancers by the judges. If the public sees too much 'favouritism' they can get angry and bite back!


Blatant favouritism from the judges. I thought Ali's Charleston routine was mediocre, both Chris (and even Laila) were far better. I take my hat off to Brian, it was a clever attempt to hide any inadequacies caused by the injury, but it couldn't disguise the lack of content.
Why no comments about the flat-footedness of Ali's routine, or the lack of any bounce ? This had been mentioned during the week, but seemed to have be conveniently forgotten when judging the actual dance tonight.
It seems Ali can do no wrong with the judges, still the voting public will have the final say in a few weeks.
They may have been giving her a more easy ride because of her injury. The routine had quite obviously been adapted because of it but it had an offset of making Brian look brilliant and I could barely take my eyes off him and he did most of the work IMO. He really had the chance to show off and, IMO, it detracted a bit from Ali's dance so I really don't know how they anyone could have given her a 10


I preferred Chris and Ola's dance tonight. I was stunned when the judges started issuing praise to Brian and Ali - which I thought had too much faffing about at the start (Ali is the one who needs to show off her dancing skills, we all know Brian can dance), then when she got into the routine it appeared flat footed, slow, and lacklustre.

Admittedly, Chris and Ola's lacked bounce, but it was entertaining, and it tapped into the spirit of the Charleston - something that, for me, Brian and Ali's didn't do.
Agreed
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Old 29-11-2009, 17:06
Ignazio
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They may have been giving her a more easy ride because of her injury.


Yet they weren't prepared to do that for Laila.

Craig was most specific to Laila "I have to mark you on what I've seen."

imo both Chris and Laila were worth 9 and Ali no more than 8.
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Old 29-11-2009, 17:14
jjackson42
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Took you long enough! My two favourites were Jade and Chris from the start!



I think you've hit the nail on the head with the bit in bold.

Before last night's show I watched loads of Charleston clips on YT and I didn't see anything in Chris and Ola's Charleston that I hadn't seen done in those clips - even the swimming move!

I did think there was a story in Cola's dance and I think they captured the fun of the dance perfectly, as well as doing lots of basic Charleston steps - Ola did them better than Chris, but they were danced. One of the most popular songs from the 1930's was 'Anything Goes' (originally from the Broadway show) and I think that's the case with the Charleston!

I can understand why the judges marked Ali higher than Chris, but I preferred Cola's dance, just as I preferred Ali & Brian's dance to Laila & Anton's which I liked too.

Each to their own, but I don't feel the need to say nasty things about any of the couples as I enjoyed them all dancing the Charleston.
Another intelligent post from BB! I agree, except that I personally preferred Ali & Brians to team Cola, but they were both EXCELLENT, in different ways.

Vive la difference!!

JJ
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Old 29-11-2009, 17:24
Bhoy1888
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Another intelligent post from BB! I agree, except that I personally preferred Ali & Brians to team Cola, but they were both EXCELLENT, in different ways.

Vive la difference!!

JJ
I think Ola and Chris were a more fun one to watch whilst Ali's was more technical correct
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Old 29-11-2009, 17:50
Daisy_M
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Yet they weren't prepared to do that for Laila.

Craig was most specific to Laila "I have to mark you on what I've seen."

imo both Chris and Laila were worth 9 and Ali no more than 8.
The big difference between Laila and Ali (regarding the injury) was that Laila didn't finish her dance and Ali did. Either way, I don't think the judges made allowances for Ali's injury. The 10 was ridiculous but I think she deserved the 9s.
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Old 29-11-2009, 17:53
Ignazio
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The big difference between Laila and Ali (regarding the injury) was that Laila didn't finish her dance and Ali did. Either way, I don't think the judges made allowances for Ali's injury. The 10 was ridiculous but I think she deserved the 9s.
But Craig did say he would mark on what he saw - which imo was worth far more than 3.
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Old 29-11-2009, 18:00
ianswaiting
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The big difference between Laila and Ali (regarding the injury) was that Laila didn't finish her dance and Ali did. Either way, I don't think the judges made allowances for Ali's injury. The 10 was ridiculous but I think she deserved the 9s.
The10 wasn't ridiculous. Alesha had already scored Chris & Ola a 9 and Ali was better. She doesn't have a 9.5 so what was she supposed to do!
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Old 29-11-2009, 18:12
Ignazio
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The10 wasn't ridiculous. Alesha had already scored Chris & Ola a 9 and Ali was better. She doesn't have a 9.5 so what was she supposed to do!
Not all of us think that Ali was better than Chris.
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