Originally Posted by footygirl:
“What gives you that optimism
”
“What gives you that optimism
”
Ive always been a glass-half-full kind of girl, you have to be if you are a Ricky Whittle supporter on these forums
Why have a public vote if judges decide finalists?
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Ive always been a glass-half-full kind of girl, you have to be if you are a Ricky Whittle supporter on these forums
Originally Posted by drbolognaise:
“Ask them!
Nah, my theory is in the semi's they will put them all through. Which is fine by me although I dont mind a 2 person final.
I wasnt on the forums in series 5 so was there such a furore over the semis with Alesha/Matt/Gethin over the unfairness of it all?”
“Ask them!
Nah, my theory is in the semi's they will put them all through. Which is fine by me although I dont mind a 2 person final.
I wasnt on the forums in series 5 so was there such a furore over the semis with Alesha/Matt/Gethin over the unfairness of it all?”
I have!
Originally Posted by drbolognaise:
“Its been messed up because there is one person less and they changed it because there was no way Tom could be saved from the dance off. The rules were changed before we knew it was going to be a 2 person final.
The send-home option up until the final has worked fairly and fine, however with the 3 person semi happening I dont know how they are going to adapt it to make it fair and Im going to check the rules now to see if I can make it clearer in my mind.”
“Its been messed up because there is one person less and they changed it because there was no way Tom could be saved from the dance off. The rules were changed before we knew it was going to be a 2 person final.
The send-home option up until the final has worked fairly and fine, however with the 3 person semi happening I dont know how they are going to adapt it to make it fair and Im going to check the rules now to see if I can make it clearer in my mind.”
Which is precisely wht the production team have messed up yet again. They have had the benefit of seeing this sort of situation before, they have had the necessary rules in place to call back an eliminated couple, or to have no elimination (options that should have been looked at and acted upon as soon as the extent of Jade's injury became known). But they choose not to take control of the situation by taking early and decisive action. Any action now will smack of desperation (notwithstanding the apparent unfairness to any couple eliminated since Jade's departure).
I don't know what will happen but I do predict this forum will go into absolute meltdown come the 12th Dec if Chris ends up in the DO with Ricky or Ali.
Originally Posted by footygirl:
“[/b]
And what is so wrong in that - the guys have a harder job than the female celebs”
“[/b]
And what is so wrong in that - the guys have a harder job than the female celebs”
Most celebrity males just stand or stroll around in half the dances whilst their female pro does the gyrating and vote winning moves around them. Many are not much more mobile than a dancer's pole. Even Ricky W is left standing often whilst Nathalie does something dramatic. The female celebrities have to look like the people who are making most visual impact on the other teams and try the more difficult moves to do that. In theory the males have to lead but, as Matt Dawson explained on ITT, the difference between pretending to lead and following is minimal.
Yoiu can't have a show with just males getting votes - it would look like an audition for the Full Monty.
Originally Posted by thenetworkbabe:
“Most celebrity males just stand or stroll around in half the dances whilst their female pro does the gyrating and vote winning moves around them. Many are not much more mobile than a dancer's pole. Even Ricky W is left standing often whilst Nathalie does something dramatic. The female celebrities have to look like the people who are making most visual impact on the other teams and try the more difficult moves to do that. In theory the males have to lead but, as Matt Dawson explained on ITT, the difference between pretending to lead and following is minimal.
Yoiu can't have a show with just males getting votes - it would look like an audition for the Full Monty.”
“Most celebrity males just stand or stroll around in half the dances whilst their female pro does the gyrating and vote winning moves around them. Many are not much more mobile than a dancer's pole. Even Ricky W is left standing often whilst Nathalie does something dramatic. The female celebrities have to look like the people who are making most visual impact on the other teams and try the more difficult moves to do that. In theory the males have to lead but, as Matt Dawson explained on ITT, the difference between pretending to lead and following is minimal.
Yoiu can't have a show with just males getting votes - it would look like an audition for the Full Monty.”
Your first comment is very unfair - are you calling Colin Jackson, Mark Ramprakash, Tom Chambers, Austin Healy, Aled Jones, MdA and Gethin Jones not much more mobile than a dancers pole
Please don't tar all guys on the show like that
I agree, a lot is made of how much harder it is for the male celebs in the ballroom, but no one ever comments on how much harder the Latin is for the women.
Whilst if there is going to be a dance off in the last 3, Chris has a high chance of being in it, even if he top the public vote. There is still an high chance of him being in the dance off this week, even if he tops the public vote.
Just one example being this:
Judges:
1. Ricky - 4pts
2. Ali - 3pts
3. Laila - 2pts
4. Chris - 1pt
Public:
1. Chris - 4pts
2. Ali - 3pts
3. Ricky - 2pts
4. Laila - 1pt
Combined:
1. Ali - 3+3 = 6pts
2. Ricky - 4+2 = 6pts
------------------------------------
3. Chris - 1+4 = 5pts
4. Laila - 2+1 = 3pts
So it most certainly isn't safe to assume that the public favourite can survive the dance off this weekend.
Personally I don't think it's right to have a dance off, now we only have 4 couples remaining. It's giving the judges 50% say on 2 which get through, and 100% say in the 3rd, which is too much power, in my own opinion.
Just one example being this:
Judges:
1. Ricky - 4pts
2. Ali - 3pts
3. Laila - 2pts
4. Chris - 1pt
Public:
1. Chris - 4pts
2. Ali - 3pts
3. Ricky - 2pts
4. Laila - 1pt
Combined:
1. Ali - 3+3 = 6pts
2. Ricky - 4+2 = 6pts
------------------------------------
3. Chris - 1+4 = 5pts
4. Laila - 2+1 = 3pts
So it most certainly isn't safe to assume that the public favourite can survive the dance off this weekend.
Personally I don't think it's right to have a dance off, now we only have 4 couples remaining. It's giving the judges 50% say on 2 which get through, and 100% say in the 3rd, which is too much power, in my own opinion.
Originally Posted by thenetworkbabe:
“But you are not being invited to get what you want. You are invited to try and save your favourite and you have even by your figures a fair chance of getting it. If you then allow for the other possible orders of the public vote (Ali last or first and Rcicky first or last) the public vote for Chris matters more.
They don't say the public vote will decide the outcome all the time and they don't say that the judges don't matter.
You actually have a similar problem if the best dancer is least popular - if they don't pass the popularity hurdle they end up in the dance off but then beat the more popular person who is behind them in dancing ability.They get through regardless of the public. The reasoning though is obvious because winning the final with the best dancer not there at all is pretty meaningless.”
“But you are not being invited to get what you want. You are invited to try and save your favourite and you have even by your figures a fair chance of getting it. If you then allow for the other possible orders of the public vote (Ali last or first and Rcicky first or last) the public vote for Chris matters more.
They don't say the public vote will decide the outcome all the time and they don't say that the judges don't matter.
You actually have a similar problem if the best dancer is least popular - if they don't pass the popularity hurdle they end up in the dance off but then beat the more popular person who is behind them in dancing ability.They get through regardless of the public. The reasoning though is obvious because winning the final with the best dancer not there at all is pretty meaningless.”
So if we had a Lisa v Rachel final that would have had meaning? Despite the fact these were two of the least popular couples in the final 6 or 7?
It's all about balance which the current system does not have imo
Originally Posted by indigomoon:
“As I understand it Chris is safe next week if he tops the public vote but the following week even if top the judges can place him last and thus into the DO and send him home.
What's the point of the public vote in a 2 person final ?”
“As I understand it Chris is safe next week if he tops the public vote but the following week even if top the judges can place him last and thus into the DO and send him home.
What's the point of the public vote in a 2 person final ?”
To be honest ever since Jade and Ian had to pull out
I've been dreading this scenario. I don't understand why some bright spark on the production team doesn't just flick over to X Factor and realise that at this point in the competition there is no sing-off, meaning that the public choose their favourites. It's an entertainment show, surely if the public's favourite couple isn't in the final, then it's not so entertaining! Added to the fact that the BBC won't publish the voting figures after the series ends only leads to speculation and conspiracy theories that the public's favourite are eliminated by the judges (eg Gethin/Camilla potentially, Tom/Camilla nearly). Phew, sorry for the rant, i just don't understand why this hasn't been sorted out by now!
Don't really get why this is an issue. The judges have had the power to eliminate every week so far so why is it a problem?. The public favourite could have been eliminated more than once this series for all we know.
Originally Posted by -Sid-:
“I disagree.
Gethin was better than Matt in my opinion. He didn't forget his dance steps for a start, and he sold his routines far better (think Waltz, AS, Salsa).
And Austin was more of an all-rounder than Lisa who he contested the dance-off against. He could do Ballroom and Latin.”
“I disagree.
Gethin was better than Matt in my opinion. He didn't forget his dance steps for a start, and he sold his routines far better (think Waltz, AS, Salsa).
And Austin was more of an all-rounder than Lisa who he contested the dance-off against. He could do Ballroom and Latin.”
I agree with this. Austin had been really solid all the way through. He had one dance that didn't quite cut the mustard in the quarter final while the others pulled out all the stops. Apart from Rachel and Vincent, nobody had two really great dances that week and, indeed, Lisa's weaker dance actually scored lower than Austin's. That week showed the dance off for the lottery it can become (as did the previous year's to a lesser extent). One celeb with a fabulous dance can beat another celeb with two solid dances no matter how weak their second dance is.
That said, I don't think Austin was stitched up - he was merely the unlucky loser in a somewhat flawed system. However, I'm not sure what the answer is. I'm not convinced having the celebs do their weaker dance is a better solution although it does prevent a couple concentrating too much on their stronger dance knowing that there's a good chance having one ace in their hand will save them should they be in the dance off.
Originally Posted by -Sid-:
“I disagree.
Gethin was better than Matt in my opinion. He didn't forget his dance steps for a start, and he sold his routines far better (think Waltz, AS, Salsa).
And Austin was more of an all-rounder than Lisa who he contested the dance-off against. He could do Ballroom and Latin.”
“I disagree.
Gethin was better than Matt in my opinion. He didn't forget his dance steps for a start, and he sold his routines far better (think Waltz, AS, Salsa).
And Austin was more of an all-rounder than Lisa who he contested the dance-off against. He could do Ballroom and Latin.”
I don't agree.......I think Matt was much better than Gethin...His Salsa was the dance of the series and voted as such by the public.His waltz got a perfect score and his AS was much better IMO.I think the dance off should be scrapped semi-final week,the American show do this and it is down to public vote from semis onwards as it should be.
Originally Posted by Ignazio:
“I was under the impression that when it gets down to the last 3 the result is in the hands of the public.”
“I was under the impression that when it gets down to the last 3 the result is in the hands of the public.”
Never has been before. The judges vote all the way to the final, so in the semis one will go through onthe public vote and judges vote combined, and the other two will go into the dance off with the judges picking who they want to go through. Its only the in the final where the judges vote is "just for fun".
IMHO the judges shouldn't have a say from now on.
Originally Posted by drbolognaise:
“How will the judges favourites be the only finalists? The public vote has more precedence in case of a tie and the change in voting system means no one is safe from the dance off anyway, so it is up to the public to save their favourite from the dance off. The judges have to choose between the 2 people who arent as popular with the public. If the person you wish to be kept in has or is eliminated, that is because:
a) they didnt receive enough public votes and
b) they didnt dance as well as the other person in the dance off.
Its a simple system and it works.”
“How will the judges favourites be the only finalists? The public vote has more precedence in case of a tie and the change in voting system means no one is safe from the dance off anyway, so it is up to the public to save their favourite from the dance off. The judges have to choose between the 2 people who arent as popular with the public. If the person you wish to be kept in has or is eliminated, that is because:
a) they didnt receive enough public votes and
b) they didnt dance as well as the other person in the dance off.
Its a simple system and it works.”
I would disagree with b). The judges have disregarded that rule when it has suited them.
Originally Posted by hotpotato:
“Don't really get why this is an issue. The judges have had the power to eliminate every week so far so why is it a problem?. The public favourite could have been eliminated more than once this series for all we know.”
“Don't really get why this is an issue. The judges have had the power to eliminate every week so far so why is it a problem?. The public favourite could have been eliminated more than once this series for all we know.”
I suppose the issue for me is why have a public vote if the judges hold the power, seems hypocritical to me.
Originally Posted by Cornchips:
“I would disagree with b). The judges have disregarded that rule when it has suited them.”
“I would disagree with b). The judges have disregarded that rule when it has suited them.”
Examples? Its difficult because a lot of times Len has had the casting vote so quite often its not the judges fave as a whole, its Len's fave who is saved.
Originally Posted by -Sid-:
“If I had my way, the dance-off would end at the quarter final stage.
Actually, if I had my way, there'd be no dance-off from the start!
The judges have their say when they rank the couples. The rest should be up to us. We should be allowed to decide who we'd rather see in the later stages of the contest.
Perhaps if this was the case, we wouldn't have lost Austin and Gethin prematurely (neither were my favourite but I recognise that they were better overall then the celebs they were knocked out against).”
“If I had my way, the dance-off would end at the quarter final stage.
Actually, if I had my way, there'd be no dance-off from the start!
The judges have their say when they rank the couples. The rest should be up to us. We should be allowed to decide who we'd rather see in the later stages of the contest.
Perhaps if this was the case, we wouldn't have lost Austin and Gethin prematurely (neither were my favourite but I recognise that they were better overall then the celebs they were knocked out against).”
I agree with you that both Gethin and Austin should have gone further and suspect that both received a higher public vote than the person who was saved. By the time the quarter finals have been reached it should definitely be left to the public. I have never been in favour of the DO which was copied from Dancing on Ice. (I was supporting Gethin but not Austin)
Originally Posted by drbolognaise:
“Examples? Its difficult because a lot of times Len has had the casting vote so quite often its not the judges fave as a whole, its Len's fave who is saved.”
“Examples? Its difficult because a lot of times Len has had the casting vote so quite often its not the judges fave as a whole, its Len's fave who is saved.”
Gabby v Penny (which I agree with) and Ali v Zoe (which is less clear) would seem to be two occasions that provoked the most comment.
Originally Posted by drbolognaise:
“Really?
What did they say??? 
”
“Really?
What did they say??? ”
I haven't had a reply yet, drb, as I only sent it today.
Would have done it last week after Ricky G's exit, but wanted to see if they did something about it this week first. What with having all the new dances, plus the potential situation with both Ali and Ricky W, I thought they might.
They seem to be "flying by the seat of their pants" at the moment, I think the expression is!
Either that or being ostriches!
Originally Posted by lemonnlime09:
“I don't agree.......I think Matt was much better than Gethin...His Salsa was the dance of the series and voted as such by the public.His waltz got a perfect score and his AS was much better IMO.I think the dance off should be scrapped semi-final week,the American show do this and it is down to public vote from semis onwards as it should be.”
“I don't agree.......I think Matt was much better than Gethin...His Salsa was the dance of the series and voted as such by the public.His waltz got a perfect score and his AS was much better IMO.I think the dance off should be scrapped semi-final week,the American show do this and it is down to public vote from semis onwards as it should be.”
Agree with you there - that Salsa was amazing as was the AS and that perfect waltz.
Nobody knows who got the higher public vote Matt or Gethen so we cannot suppose to know who the public would have put through.
I refuse to be downhearted about the possibility of Chris going home even if he has the highest public vote.......I will vote for him and hope for the best and I do understand the maths involved........I will be seeing him on tour, and I have realised after last year ....oh and the year before.....that it really doesnt matter who wins as they are often not the ones that are remembered with as much affection as the ones that put up a good fight and didnt quite make it.
Originally Posted by indigomoon:
“As I understand it Chris is safe next week if he tops the public vote but the following week even if top the judges can place him last and thus into the DO and send him home.
What's the point of the public vote in a 2 person final ?”
“As I understand it Chris is safe next week if he tops the public vote but the following week even if top the judges can place him last and thus into the DO and send him home.
What's the point of the public vote in a 2 person final ?”
Well, I'm quite happy for you and all Cola fans to assume your vote would be a waste and put them 3rd with the public. That way I will get my dream final of Ali v Ricky
Originally Posted by ianswaiting:
“Well, I'm quite happy for you and all Cola fans to assume your vote would be a waste and put them 3rd with the public. That way I will get my dream final of Ali v Ricky”
“Well, I'm quite happy for you and all Cola fans to assume your vote would be a waste and put them 3rd with the public. That way I will get my dream final of Ali v Ricky
”
Thats never going to happen....he always has a chance anyway 1000s of people voted for Tom last year when there was no way he could be saved !!!! most strictly viewers have no idea how the voting works.
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