[Terry Telly]

Here is a question for those readers of this thread who know something about recording on DVD recorders.

Any advice on how to solve the following problems would be much appreciated .

My DVD player/recorder has broken down .

I tried yesterday evening to play some discs (not DVD +RW discs) recorded on it on my computer DVD player but they will not work .

I assume that the reason is because the discs (DVD -R and DVD +R) have not been 'finalised' (i.e. the programmes on them have not been saved using the 'finalise' facility on the DVD recorder).

They were not' finalised' because they still have some recording space on them which I had intended to use (I understand that it is not possible to record on a DVD disc once it has been 'finalised').

I have the following questions:

1.

Can a DVD disc (DVD -R and DVD +R) only be 'finalised' on the DVD recorder in which the programmes on it were recorded? It looks like that to me - in view of the fact that the DVD discs not 'finalised' will not work on my computer yet DVD +RW discs (which do not require 'finalisation' and which can be used for recording more than once unlike most other DVD disc types) will play (on my computer).


If it is the case that my DVD -R and +R discs can only be 'finalised' on the machine in which the programmes on them were recorded then I would have to try to get my broken DVD recorder repaired so that it can 'finalise' those discs.

Otherwise - if it is the case that the DVD recorder which is not working is the only machine which can do this ('finalise'/save discs recorded on it) and if it is not possible to repair my broken down DVD recorder - it then does start to look (unless I am wrong) that my DVD -R and +R discs not yet 'finalised' will never work again and are obsolete .

Am I correct in coming to the view that my DVD discs not yet 'finalised' can only be 'finalised' on the DVD recorder which recorded programmes on to them and that if that machine cannot be repaired the recordings are lost?

2.

I would also like to know if anyone has bought a DVD player/recorder which broke down after the guarantee period had ended and what they decided to do. Where does one go to get a DVD recorder repaired (when it is out of the guarantee period)? It may be less expensive to buy a new DVD recorder - but I would also like to know if a new machine would be able to 'finalise' DVD discs recorded on my broken DVD recorder.

Perhaps readers of this who have a knowledge of DVD recording will kindly help me here with advice . If they do I will be most grateful.

Thank you to everyone for reading this .

[chrisjr]

Does your DVD recorder play any disks or none at all, including shop bought movies?

Or is it only that disks recorded on it won't play on your PC but do play OK on the recorder?

DVDs and CDs have an area set aside on them for what is in effect the index to the content. During the record process this "index" is created in a different area as a temporary measure. it is this that allows you to add extra material to the disk.

It is not unknown for a DVD/CD drive to create temporary "indexes" that are incompatible with other makes. So sometimes an un-finalised disk can fail to play on a different device to the one it was created on.

And generally you should finalise the disk on the device it was created on. Unless you have two identical machines. just to avoid any issues. It might be worth trying to finalise a "test" disk just to see if that resolves the problem.

And if the recorder is failing to play any disk there are two very common causes for that. Both involving the laser assembly.

First is gunge on the laser lens. A very common problem. if you define yourself competent to handle a screwdriver than you could attempt a repair yourself. You need to expose the laser assembly which usually just involves taking the lid off the machine.

Then using a cotton bud lightly dampened in Isopropyl Alcohol (Maplin or a Chemist should have some) very gently wipe the laser lens. Then use a dry bud to mop up any residue. The lens may be mounted on a spring so could move a little but don't use too much force or you will kill the thing!

The other common fault is the laser simply runs out of go. believe it or not they do actually wear out. When you put a disk in the laser does a little test to see what power level is needed to read the disk. Writing uses much more power. And recordable disks need more power even to read than a commercially produced disk.

Over time the laser power degrades to a point where it simply cannot read the disk anymore. In that scenario the only real solution is to change the laser. it can be a DIY job. You simply buy the entire carriage that the laser moves back and forth on and swap them over. But sometimes this can be tricky, so you may feel happier giving it to a professional.

[Terry Telly]

In reply to posting number 2 to this thread from Chrisjr:

Thank you for your reply (to the first posting to this thread) Chrisjr; for the time you have given to answering and for very helping and knowledgeable advice given in explaining the way DVD recorders work .

Quote:

Chrisjr wrote: Does your DVD recorder play any disks or none at all, including shop bought movies?

That is a very good question –and I am glad you asked it.

After reading your question this evening, I put a DVD disc in to the broken DVD player/recorder - a disc which came free with one the newspapers (i.e. a disc I did not record myself). It plays for the first 40 minutes and then I get the equivalent of computer screen freeze (i.e the picture remains but movement stops and the sound goes). To retrieve the disc I had to unplug the broken DVD recorder from the mains and start it up again (it would not switch off in the way it was designed to do). Another disc I put in it – again, one from a disc from a newspaper - will play but the DVD player/recorder facility used to move the recording forward in five minute segments will not work .

Quote:

Chrisjr wrote: Or is it only that disks recorded on it won't play on your PC but do play OK on the recorder?

My broken DVD player/recorder will play the first track of DVD +RW discs (i.e. disc which can be used for recording more than once ) but it will not show tracks after the first track on DVD +RW discs.

The machine will not play any programmes recorded by me on DVD –R and/or DVD +R discs which have not been ‘finalised’ (saved). The same applies to my computer – it will play DVD +RW recordings made by me but not DVD –R and DVD +R discs which have not been ‘finalised’.

Quote:

Chrisjr wrote: It might be worth trying to finalise a "test" disk just to see if that resolves the problem.

The problem is the DVD player/recorder will no longer carry out most functions it was designed for . It will not record on any discs (including DVD +RW); it will not let me retrieve discs without turning the machine off at the mains and then switching it on again – and it will not ‘read’ DVD –R and DVD +R discs which it has to do in before I can get the machine to try to ‘finalise’ (DVD –R and DVD +R) discs it has already recorded.

Quote:

Chrisjr wrote: And if the recorder is failing to play any disk there are two very common causes for that. Both involving the laser assembly. First is gunge on the laser lens. A very common problem. If you define yourself competent to handle a screwdriver than you could attempt a repair yourself.

I turned the broken DVD player/recorder off at the mains and then tried cleaning the laser lens the other day – and, in view of the advice you give in your last posting to this thread – did so again this evening (after unplugging it from the mains, of course). I then plugged the broken DVD player/recorder back into the mains and tried to operate it but it still win not ‘read’ (i.e. it will not accept) DVD –R and DVD +R discs.

Quote:

Chrisjr wrote: The other common fault is the laser simply runs out of go. Believe it or not they do actually wear out. Over time the laser power degrades to a point where it simply cannot read the disk anymore.

It does look as if the laser has ceased to work properly .

Quote:

Chrisjr wrote: In that scenario the only real solution is to change the laser. It can be a DIY job. You simply buy the entire carriage that the laser moves back and forth on and swap them over. But sometimes this can be tricky, so you may feel happier giving it to a professional.

Do you know of any repair shops you can recommend (to repair my broken DVD machine) or shops that sell the part that will be needed for my DVD machine? Perhaps I should contact the manufacturer to see if they can recommend anyone.

By the way, the machine model I have is not on sale anymore in the shop I got it from. it is out of the guarantee period.

I am surprised that it appears that the only way I can get my DVD –R and DVD +R discs to work is to get the actual machine they were recorded on repaired (so that that DVD player/recorder can ‘finalise’ (save) the discs so they will play on other DVD players). I wonder if, in getting my broken DVD player/recorder repaired, it might change the way it originally worked leading to it refusing to ‘finalise’ discs it recorded itself?

[Terry Telly]

Duplicate posting

[chrisjr]

Chances are if your PC drive could read the disk properly then it can finalise it too. Though there is no absolute guarantee of this. But if it cannot even read the disk then little chance of it finalising it.

Repairs could be expensive. For example a quick google shows DVD laser assemblies typically cost anything from 30 quid upwards, some were knocking on the door of £80. Add a couple of hours labour on top and you could be into a three figure bill very easily. Getting very close to the cost of a new one. Especially if there are other problems over and above a dodgy laser, which from what you have mentioned my be the case.

A dodgy laser should not affect the drawer mechanism for example. All that should happen if a laser fails to read a disk is that the machine should react exactly the same as if there was no disk at all. It should still let you open and close the drawer.

Fair enough if the machine does not think a disk is in the machine then things like PLAY SKIP etc won't work either. But if it can read the disk then it should be able to do these functions. Although it may fail if it tries to read a dirty or scratched area of the disk.

The point you mentioned about it playing so far into a disk then stopping dead. That may be a problem with the two rails the laser carriage moves on as it reads the disk. I have seen CD players (which are mechanically very similar) with a build up of gunge on the rail which eventually gets so bad it jams the carriage!

If it is a Sony then there are plenty of Sony Centres on the high street which might be worth a punt. Most manufacturers should have a list of service agents on their websites.

There are probably some independent service engineers in Yellow Pages but you are on your own with that

If you do get it repaired it should not affect it's ability to read and eventually finalise the disks you have got. Unless the data on those disks is* corrupt because of the fault with the machine of course. A new machine from the same manufacturer may also be able to read the disks.

* or should that be are since the word data is a plural strictly speaking

[titcaptain]

Re: the unfinalised discs.

All your unfinalised discs should be able to be finalised on another drive of the same brand.

So if its a Pioneer recorder you can use another Pioneer recorder to finalise them.

You could try a friend or even a shop and ask to finalise the discs.

Sounds like you need a new recorder.
If you don't intend to buy the same brand again ask the shop if you can finalise the discs in a recorder of the same brand in return for buying a new model from them.

Some recorders of different brands may even have the same drive in but of course that wont be obvious .

[Terry Telly]

In reply to posting number five to this thread from Chrisjr:

Quote:

Chrisrj wrote: Repairs could be expensive. Especially if there are other problems over and above a dodgy laser, which from what you have mentioned my be the case.

Quote:

Chrisjr wrote: The point you mentioned about it playing so far into a disk then stopping dead. That may be a problem with the two rails the laser carriage moves on as it reads the disk. I have seen CD players (which are mechanically very similar) with a build up of gunge on the rail which eventually gets so bad it jams the carriage!

Thank you for your advice, Chrisjr . In a few minutes I will disconnect my broken DVD recorder to the mains to and clean the two rails you refer to. I will then plug it back into the mains and try again to see if it might work again.

Quote:

Chrisjr wrote: If you do get it repaired it should not affect its ability to read and eventually finalise the disks you have got. Unless the data on those disks is corrupt because of the fault with the machine of course.

Another very good point from you Chrisjr.

I am also concerned that there might be a fault in the recording of the discs which may not go away even if the discs are ‘finalised’. Hopefully there will be no fault - most of them worked until four days ago.

But I do recall that when my broken DVD player/recorder functioned correctly some discs recorded on it (DVD –R, DVD +R and DVD +RW) suddenly stopped working . The DVD +RW discs which no longer worked (as you know DVD +RW discs require no 'finalisation') would not play on my computer from that time onwards.

Quote:

Chrisjr wrote: A new machine from the same manufacturer may also be able to read the disks.

Buying a new DVD player/recorder is a very good idea – and I thank you for it, Christjr.

The maker of my broken DVD player/recorder does not appear to have shops in High Streets here as some other electrical manufacturers do.

I have checked their website and it does look as if they might no longer make DVD players/recorders .

The website does advertise DVD writers but not actual players/recorders. They also state “Discs recorded with copy-once material cannot be played on non-CPRM compatible players.” Meaning, of course, that the broken DVD player/recorder I have is a CPRM player/recorder. I did not know what CPRM meant so visited the following website which explains:

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2001/01...u_ever_wanted/

On the website of the manufacturer of my broken DVD player/recorder I have not, so far, found a contact telephone number or address in the UK but there is an e-mail address for technical enquiries.

I shall send them an e-mail in the next hour or so to see what they suggest about the problems I have am having with the machine and what they think can be done about ‘finalisation’ of DVD discs I very much want to work again.

I will ask them in that e-mail (if they still make DVD players/recorders) if discs which have not been 'finalised' will work on one of their newer DVD players/recorders and, if not (or if they do not make DVD players/recorders any more), can they recommend a DVD player/machine which will play and 'finalise' my discs.

[Terry Telly]

In reply to posting number six to this thread from titcaptain:

Quote:

Originally Posted by titcaptain

All your unfinalised discs should be able to be finalised on another drive of the same brand.

Thank you for your reply and for your very helpful suggestion .

I have checked the website of the manufacturer of my broken DVD player/recorder and it does seem that they may no longer make DVD players/recorders . I have seen none made by that brand advertised by the shop I purchased the now broken DVD player/machine machine from .

Quote:

titcaptain wrote: Sounds like you need a new recorder.

It does look that way. I will have to consider buying one once the matter of whether I can 'finalise' (i.e. save) my existing DVD collection is resolved.

Quote:

titcaptain wrote: Some recorders of different brands may even have the same drive in - but of course that won't be obvious.

I intend to ask the manufacturer of my now broken DVD player/recorder (in an e-mail to be sent by me to them in an hour or so) if they can recommend a new DVD player/recorder (made by them or, if not, by another company) which can 'finalise' discs recorded on a DVD player/recorder made by them.

[titcaptain]

If your current dvdr is for the scrapheap then you should undo the casing and look inside to see the brand name on the drive - then you'll know whether you might be able to get another one

[Terry Telly]

Thank you for your reply .

Quote:

Originally Posted by titcaptain

If your current dvdr is for the scrapheap then you should undo the casing and look inside to see the brand name on the drive - then you'll know whether you might be able to get another one.....

Do you know where the brand name of the drive would be? I have just unplugged the DVD recorder and opened it. I can find no name on the drive.

I am hoping that the manufacturer will be able to advise me on how to 'finalise' (to save) the DVD discs the broken DVD machine recorded.

[John Currie]

Is the make of this DVDR a state secret?

[jackthom]

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Currie

Is the make of this DVDR a state secret?

I'm wondering if it's the Panasonic DMR-E50 with it's slowly dying power supply.

[grahamlthompson]

If you stick one of the discs in a PC and explore it do you see any folders and files ?. IF so what are the file extensions (the letters after the dot, you might need to change the default view to see the file extensions.

[Terry Telly]

Quote:

Originally Posted by grahamlthompson

If you stick one of the discs in a PC and explore it do you see any folders and files?

Thank you for your reply, Graham.

When I put any of the DVD -R and DVD +R discs which are not 'finalised' (i.e. not saved) into my computer nothing happens at all.

The computer will not read the DVD disc - and, consequently, the software used to watch DVD discs on my computer does not appear on the computer screen.

When I put a DVD +RW disc recorded on my now broken DVD player/recorder into the computer DVD player the computer reads the disc; the software used to play DVD discs on the computer activates and I am able to watch the DVD +RW disc . As you know, Graham, DVD +RW discs require no 'finalisation' (i.e. they do not need to be 'saved').

I think we can assume that my computer will not play the DVD -R and DVD +R discs recorded on my now broken DVD recorder because those discs have not been 'finalised'.

So my search to find a way of 'finalising' those discs (so that they will play again) continues.

I am now waiting to hear from the manufacturer of the broken DVD recorder. It seems that they may no longer be making DVD recorders but perhaps they can recommend a DVD recorder made by another brand which will 'finalise' my DVD -R and DVD +R discs.

[grahamlthompson]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terry Telly

Thank you for your reply, Graham.

When I put any of the DVD -R and DVD +R discs which are not 'finalised' (i.e. not saved) into my computer nothing happens at all.

The computer will not read the DVD disc - and, consequently, the software used to watch DVD discs on my computer does not appear on the computer screen.

When I put a DVD +RW disc recorded on my now broken DVD player/recorder into the computer DVD player the computer reads the disc; the software used to play DVD discs on the computer activates and I am able to watch the DVD +RW disc . As you know, Graham, DVD +RW discs require no 'finalisation' (i.e. they do not need to be 'saved').

I think we can assume that my computer will not play the DVD -R and DVD +R discs recorded on my now broken DVD recorder because those discs have not been 'finalised'.

So my search to find a way of 'finalising' those discs (so that they will play again) continues.

I am now waiting to hear from the manufacturer of the broken DVD recorder. It seems that they may no longer be making DVD recorders but perhaps they can recommend a DVD recorder made by another brand which will 'finalise' my DVD -R and DVD +R discs.

It was a long shot. If you could actually find the files on the disc there may have been away of extracting the data. The only other thing I can think of is to try using something like directcd to access the data

[sarge99]

Can only add to the comments about probably needing to get a new recorder however ...

You might want to have a look at getting an app called CDroller (http://www.cdroller.com) - it's a fairly low priced application (US$39) that I've had great use out of in recovering failed finalised discs or ones that just won't read in a standalone recorder.

Given that the make and model of your recorder isn't actually known it's impossible at present to give actual guidance on how to use the app for your purposes however it does have generic UDF reading capability which should be enough (in theory) to help recover the data from the unfinalized discs. Your problem would then be how to get the recovered video onto another disc which can be rerecorded/finalised in the PC - I'll leave advice on that however to others on which application to use.

Hope this is of some help.

[gemma-the-husky]

i still think you ought to try a normal commercial dvd (not a newspaper freebie) and see if that plays - pre-recorded dvds are different to home recorded, and may well play

now, a home recorded dvd needs to be finalised on the machine that recorded it, BEFORE it can be played on other machines - I only use good brand dvd-r and dvd+r. I have had lots of problems with inferior brands, and now stick to premium brands such as sony - if you can get ones made in japan, they are the best.

i dont use re-recordables, but i think that they will only play the latest recording. I dont think you can keep adding recordings incrementally, until the disc is full - just that you can wipe it and start again.

so it may well be that your machine is fine, but you arent checking it out properly

[John Currie]

Quote:

Originally Posted by sarge99

Given that the make and model of your recorder isn't actually known

It must be a state secret.

[Terry Telly]

Quote:

Originally Posted by grahamlthompson

The disc there may have been away of extracting the data. The only other thing I can think of is to try using something like directcd to access the data

Thank you for your reply, Graham, and for recommending the software referred to in the quote above.

[Terry Telly]

In reply to posting number 17 to this thread from Gemma:

Quote:

Originally Posted by gemma-the-husky

I still think you ought to try a normal commercial dvd (not a newspaper freebie) and see if that plays - pre-recorded dvds are different to home recorded, and may well play....

Thank you for your advice Gemma and for the time you took in making your posting .

Unfortunately, even if the broken DVD recorder plays a commercial DVD it will not now 'read' (i.e. it will not accept) DVD -R and DVD +R discs it recorded and neither will my computer . This is almost certainly because those discs are not 'finalised' (i.e. they are not saved).

I have to buy a new recorder and find a way of getting the DVD -R and DVD +R discs recorded by the broken DVD recorder 'finalised' (i.e. saved) so that they will play again.

Quote:

Gemma wrote: ....now, a home recorded dvd needs to be finalised on the machine that recorded it, BEFORE it can be played on other machines - I only use good brand dvd-r and dvd+r. I have had lots of problems with inferior brands, and now stick to premium brands such as sony - if you can get ones made in japan, they are the best.

Thank you for your advice, Gemma.

Long before my DVD recorder broke last week I also had problems with some DVD discs .

Quote:

Gemma wrote: I don't use re-recordables, but I think that they will only play the latest recording. I don't think you can keep adding recordings incrementally, until the disc is full - just that you can wipe it and start again.

My re-recordable DVD discs (DVD +RW) recorded on the machine now broken will play on my computer .

With DVD +RW discs one can record more than once on the same disc unless the disc is full. To make space for a new recording one would have to remove one or all of the old recordings on the DVD +RW disc depending on how much space is required for the new recording. As you will know Gemma, DVD +RW discs do not need to be 'finalised' (they do not need to be saved).

Some might say that the answer is to only use DVD +RW discs for recording.

[grahamlthompson]

Nero amongst others will finalise a DVD but I don't think this will help as you can't even read the files on the disc. Might be worth a try though

Read this

http://www.howtomendit.com/answers.php?id=9122

[Terry Telly]

Thank you for your reply (posting number 16 to this thread) sarge99 and for the time you have taken in making it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sarge99

Can only add to the comments about probably needing to get a new recorder however ...

Yes, I will have to get a new recorder - but I am advised to that prices of electrical equipment may come down in the New Year sales which could begin (as many did last year) just before Christmas. On the other hand, VAT goes up on 1.1.2010.

Quote:

sarge99 wrote: You might want to have a look at getting an app called CDroller (http://www.cdroller.com) - it's a fairly low priced application (US$39) that I've had great use out of in recovering failed finalised discs or ones that just won't read in a standalone recorder.

I am very grateful to you sarge99 for your above advice. Do you know where I get the above software from in the UK?

Quote:

sarge99 wrote: …it does have generic UDF reading capability which should be enough (in theory) to help recover the data from the unfinalized discs. Your problem would then be how to get the recovered video onto another disc which can be re-recorded/finalised in the PC - I'll leave advice on that however to others on which application to use.

How do I find out if my computer DVD player also records? If it copies it might be possible to transfer the programmes on the discs not ‘finalised’ (not saved) to a blank DVD disc inserted in to the computer DVD slot.

If this does not work, is there a way of wiring up a computer to a DVD recorder so that any programmes recovered from the DVD discs (which have not been ‘finalised’) can be transferred to a blank DVD disc in the DVD recorder? If this is possible would it require special software and, if so, do you have any recommendations?

Quote:

sarge99 wrote: Hope this is of some help.

Your posting has been of great help and I am very grateful.

[Terry Telly]

In reply to posting number 21 to this thread from Graham Thompson:

Quote:

Originally Posted by grahamlthompson

Nero amongst others will finalise a DVD but I don't think this will help as you can't even read the files on the disc. Might be worth a try though. Read this:

http://www.howtomendit.com/answers.php?id=9122

Thank you for your reply Graham ; for your advice and for the link to the article.

Just before you posted here mentioning Nero 9 I was just about to write here that yesterday I visited a website which recommends Nero 9.

That website I have been looking at advises that Nero 9 will ignore whether the disc is ‘finalised’ (i.e. saved) or not and that it will ‘finalise’ almost any disc.

Isobuster (from Isobuster.com) is also recommended by the same website.

Do you know, Graham, how I can tell if my computer DVD player can copy any programmes recovered and put on my computer (using software) from DVD discs which have not been 'finalised' (i.e. not been saved)?

[JethroUK]

Simple answer is to buy Read/Write RW discs

They're ridiculously cheap now (i got 20 Tesco discs) and because you can re-write you can finalise them every time

[grahamlthompson]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terry Telly

In reply to posting number 21 to this thread from Graham Thompson:



Thank you for your reply Graham ; for your advice and for the link to the article.

Just before you posted here mentioning Nero 9 I was just about to write here that yesterday I visited a website which recommends Nero 9.

That website I have been looking at advises that Nero 9 will ignore whether the disc is ‘finalised’ (i.e. saved) or not and that it will ‘finalise’ almost any disc.

Isobuster (from Isobuster.com) is also recommended by the same website.

Do you know, Graham, how I can tell if my computer DVD player can copy any programmes recovered and put on my computer (using software) from DVD discs which have not been 'finalised' (i.e. not been saved)?

If the computer can't read the disc using file explorer or dirctcd (which uses rewriteables like a normal disc) there's not a lot you can do.