In finally pulled the plug on Sky, after 10 years of paying for 200+ channels of mostly rubbish. I guess laziness prevented me from doing it earlier.

I've decided to go Freesat and would welcome some advice on the relative merits and drawbacks of integrated receiver v. non:

- I'm in the market for a ~ 40" flat panel screen. My preference is for one of the new ultra-thin versions, with an integrated Freesat receiver.

- I've no need for a PVR as I have a TiVo which I remain happy with (despite the limitation of it only having one tuner).

- Scanning the market, the ultra-thin screens seem to be offered currently by just a handful of manufacturers and AFAIK none of them have an integrated Freesat receiver. Right or wrong?

- Am I better off getting a separate box anyway, assuming the receiver may go tech within the lifespan of the product? My preference is to reduce down box clutter, rather than add.

- Finally, access to IP-delivered TV is a big incentive for me. The walled garden offer on Panasonic Vieracast leaves me cold. Is there any manufacturer offering a browser with open access to the Internet?

Thanks in advance for your comments / suggestions.

The main problem with an integrated freesat tuner is that if you want to record an HD channel you have to be watching it and also you can only record it in very poor cvbs (composite) quality.

Why change anything?, your existing ex-Sky box will give you more free channels than a Freesat box - the only real reason to change would be to upgrade to a PVR.

If you're wanting to buy a new TV though, buy a Freesat one, change your LNB for a quad, and run an extra cable. This will allow you to watch Freesat on your TV, while recording a different free channel on your TiVo from your old Sky box.
Last edited by Nigel Goodwin : 03-12-2009 at 11:18

Maybe he doesn't want his EPG cluttered up with a load of old dross that he can't view anyway.

Love the way on the Humax Foxsat HDR all the garbage (shopping/religious/babe(babe...huh )/chat) nonsense can be deleted, leaving you with just the channels you want.

The only pity is that "Yesterday", "Dave" and Sky Sports News are not available on freesat. One day??

If the Sky EPG allowed you to delete the rubbish then I'd say fine, but pages and pages of encrypted stuff is a pain. And the 50 fav channels option is not the answer either.

True, must admit it is annoying scrolling through a load of channels you can't view.

And if you keep your $ky box plugged in then there is always the temptation to phone em up and re-subscribe.

And you will need to buy a FSFS card which does technically keep you tied in with $ky as it needs replacing every few years.

So maybe buying a new Freesat box would be better.

So spend money you don't need to, to get less channels, just to get a less cluttered EPG? - money to burn some folk.

gonefishin,

Manufacturers aren't interested in providing straight browsers because the internet is so fragmented. Pages simply don't work on TVs unless you have Flash, various codecs and other technologies which in a commercial world need to be paid for. Also the average browser with these technologies consumes a great deal of RAM which the devices don't have.

If pages didn't work and content didn't display properly consumers would return products very quickly. Walled gardens are the answer to the problem of consistent experience.

I am not saying this is the right approach for everyone, but as an industry the fragmented internet is too big a challenge given the limited facilities available. If one really wanted to get their own content on the TV then I would take a look at where SamyGO* is going: http://lwn.net/Articles/361445/

*I take no responsibility for the risks associated with replacing the software in your product and make no claims about its abilities.

ROFLMAO!

Good job for Murdoch otherwise how on earth else would Sky make any money?

If you use a HDR to record then technically your in credit in year 3 as oppose to using sky+. So which route burns more money in the long run?

The OP said he didn't want a PVR so Nigel is actually correct unless OP has a SD sky box wants to get HD in which case he may as well switch to true Freesat at the same time..

But I do think digs about people wasting money are a bit rich, coming from someone who's main activity in the Freesat forums is to 'big up' Sky at any and every opportunity.

and how much money does the average sky user burn over the year with the box in so called standby?

I could be wrong with my back of the spreadsheet quick mathematics but assuming a 20h standby average per day for a product and £0.20 per kWh:

17W standby = £24.75
1W standby = £1.46

Might help your thinking?

So £299 odd to record for three years, versus nothing to record for three years with his existing system - he said he didn't want a PVR, but to continue using his TiVo.

Why is everyone determined to make him spend money he doesn't need to? - IF he did want a PVR, then fair enough, chuck the TiVo and Sky box, and buy a Humax PVR (but he specifically said he didn't want to).

No one is determined to make him spend money.

However, he comes to a Freesat forum and says he wants to get Freesat and of course, one of the Sky Squad just has to wade in and and start mitthering on about Sky boxes.

If he'd asked for help in deciding on whether to go True Freesat or FSFS that would ba fair enough but otherwise it just part of the incessant chittering of the Sky promoters.

Plus, you asked a question so people answered it.

He doesn't think he needs a new pvr,but the picture quality of the TiVo and inability to record channels whilst watching something else, means he should get a new pvr IMHO. Put the TiVo on eBay.

Hi all

Thanks for your various comments and suggestions.

One of the reasons for terminating my relationship with Sky was that yet another set-top box went tech and I wasn't prepared to pay for an engineer when my feeling was that I'd already paid handsomely for the service via my subscription (I appreciate T&Cs suggest otherwise).

So simply removing the viewing card and continuing to use the Sky digibox isn't an option.

Based on a further survey of the market yesterday, I think I'm veering towards the following:

- Samsung UE37B6000VW LED HD 1080p (great form factor, comes with integrated Freeview, but will require a separate Freesat box)

- I get the points about tuner limitations and no HD recording on my TiVo, but given that the useability is second only to anything designed by Apple, I'd quite like to stick with it. Also, my understanding is that with just two HD channels currently broadcasting on Freesat - at least one of which loops its schedule - there's less danger of missing anything

- Curious though what are the EPGs like on Freesat PVRs? If they're as awful as they generally are on any Freeview boxes, it would feel like a real trade down.
- Another factor which may help me finally make up my mind: in the event that I do get a Freesat HDR, in order to use the dual recording functionality would be dish need to be upgraded to a quad LNB?

- Bob_Cat: many thanks for the info on Samy_GO. Looks interesting, but probably a little too specialist for me?

Again thanks to everyone for your comments, hope you can help out further with the above.

In my case only 75 hours a week since the box is plugged into a timer

..which unfortunately your current Freesat product can't handle, sadly. I hope your new kit can handle power cuts better or I won't be buying that either

If you buy an integrated Freeview television now (Dec 2009), it will have a tuner that will not receive HD terrestrial transmissions when they start. (The transmitters will provide HD usually from the analogue switch off date for each region). It surely can't be long until televisions with MPEG-4 DVB-T2 tuners appear which will be able to decode the terrestrial HD transmissions. However, the first models out are likely to be more expensive until all manufacturers switch to the new tuners.

Of course, you can buy a Freesat HD tuner but then you will be stuck with 2 remote controls - one for the TV (adjust contrast etc) and the other with the Freesat box just for changing channels. It looks like no new HD channels will be added to Freesat until Astra launch new satellites between 2012-14. (See "Broadcasting Issues" forum for more on this).

Thanks, useful advice. This is partly why I've decided to go down the Freesat route, as well as my suspicion that Freeview HD will be heavily compressed v. Freesat.

I did say average user not conscientious users

My current freesat model works no differently to a sky box after a power cut (foxsatHD) but as bob-cat says 1 watt compared to 17 watt.....

Is that a joke?
Plugging a PVR into a timer to save electric?
Just get a box which can handle low power standby instead
There is a possibility that the freesat box could be updated to withstand a power cut.

If you don't need PVR functions then don't spend money on a HDR just get the Humax HD box for about £119. Think Argos are giving a £10 voucher back as well. Money well spent.

If you want a HDR Argos have them for £243.99 plus you get a £10 voucher back, and if you are a Southern Electric customer you can get another 10% off anything at Argos bringing the price down to around £209. Or you can get your local John Lewis to price match John Lewis Liverpool who I believe are selling the HDR for £199 currently.