Hang on, I thought that if he was top of the public vote, but tied over all ie 3 couples got 6, then he would be saved cause the public vote has presidence over the judges when there is a tie?? can someone explain?
Chris and Ola still topping the vote, but ...
2 of 3
Originally Posted by Monkseal:
“But that never happened - if it were the case Denise never would have made the final of series 2, and Zoe never would have made the final of series 3, and Emma would have been out long before 3rd place.
I've always said the best system of public and judge vote is the American one, because it's proportional. Cuts out all this silly ranknigs bollocks, where getting more votes can actually hurt you, at a stroke.”
“But that never happened - if it were the case Denise never would have made the final of series 2, and Zoe never would have made the final of series 3, and Emma would have been out long before 3rd place.
I've always said the best system of public and judge vote is the American one, because it's proportional. Cuts out all this silly ranknigs bollocks, where getting more votes can actually hurt you, at a stroke.”
Sorry - should have said the public favourite, ie actually top with the public overall, would have always beaten anyone else in the bottom two.
How's the American one work?
Originally Posted by River Man:
“This sort of attitude is why I no longer look forward to show I once loved.
If the BBC want a pure dance competition then they should do away with the public vote.”
“This sort of attitude is why I no longer look forward to show I once loved.
If the BBC want a pure dance competition then they should do away with the public vote.”
But they obviously don't want that. What they want is a show were the celebs are motivated to work on their dance and therefore produce some good quality entertaining dancing and create competitive atmosphere (which is why the judges scores are important) and one which attracts a non-dance audience and keeps personalities in til late in the competition for their fans (which is why the viewers vote is important).
In other words the show is meant to be balanced. However if the poor dancers fans keep moaning about some people (dance judges especially) prefering people who can dance being unfair then it gets ridiculous. Of course dancing professionals and judges will prefer contestants who can dance or make an effort to learn!
Originally Posted by mikeybaby76:
“Hang on, I thought that if he was top of the public vote, but tied over all ie 3 couples got 6, then he would be saved cause the public vote has presidence over the judges when there is a tie?? can someone explain?”
“Hang on, I thought that if he was top of the public vote, but tied over all ie 3 couples got 6, then he would be saved cause the public vote has presidence over the judges when there is a tie?? can someone explain?”
He can only get 6 if he's 3rd on the leaderboard and top with the public - if he's bottom, he can only get a maximum of 5
Originally Posted by What name??:
“But they obviously don't want that. What they want is a show were the celebs are motivated to work on their dance and therefore produce some good quality entertaining dancing and create competitive atmosphere (which is why the judges scores are important) and one which attracts a non-dance audience and keeps personalities in til late in the competition for their fans (which is why the viewers vote is important).
In other words the show is meant to be balanced. However if the poor dancers fans keep moaning about some people (dance judges especially) prefering people who can dance being unfair then it gets ridiculous. Of course dancing professionals and judges will prefer contestants who can dance or make an effort to learn!”
“But they obviously don't want that. What they want is a show were the celebs are motivated to work on their dance and therefore produce some good quality entertaining dancing and create competitive atmosphere (which is why the judges scores are important) and one which attracts a non-dance audience and keeps personalities in til late in the competition for their fans (which is why the viewers vote is important).
In other words the show is meant to be balanced. However if the poor dancers fans keep moaning about some people (dance judges especially) prefering people who can dance being unfair then it gets ridiculous. Of course dancing professionals and judges will prefer contestants who can dance or make an effort to learn!”
So Chris can't dance or made an effort to learn?
Ricky W comes aht and performs everything the same to me...all his dances have blended into one undefinable mush as far as I'm concerned.
As for Ali's Latin..
I'd still much rather have a good dancer who can entertain me in the final rather than a 'great' dancer (debatable) who doesn't entertain me.
IMO.
Originally Posted by Scattyjan:
“Sorry - should have said the public favourite, ie actually top with the public overall, would have always beaten anyone else in the bottom two.
How's the American one work?”
“Sorry - should have said the public favourite, ie actually top with the public overall, would have always beaten anyone else in the bottom two.
How's the American one work?”
They take the percentage you achieved out of the total judges scores for the night (ie if you got 32 and the total of all scores given was 200, you'd get 16%) and then they add that to the % of the public vote you got. Whoever gets the lowest combined total (out of 200%, which should please Apprentice candidates) is eliminated.
It's more difficult to follow, but a lot fairer. You could probably even keep the precious dance-off if you wanted, the public favourite would almost certainly never be in it.
There is of course the issue of Ms Bussell who hasn't necessarily yet been inducted into the judges' cabal and looks suspiciously like she might award points on the dancing alone.
Doesn't five judges put everything out of kilter and mean Len's veto will be worth nothing?
Doesn't five judges put everything out of kilter and mean Len's veto will be worth nothing?
Originally Posted by Monkseal:
“They take the percentage you achieved out of the total judges scores for the night (ie if you got 32 and the total of all scores given was 200, you'd get 16%) and then they add that to the % of the public vote you got. Whoever gets the lowest combined total (out of 200%, which should please Apprentice candidates) is eliminated.
It's more difficult to follow, but a lot fairer. You could probably even keep the precious dance-off if you wanted, the public favourite would almost certainly never be in it.”
“They take the percentage you achieved out of the total judges scores for the night (ie if you got 32 and the total of all scores given was 200, you'd get 16%) and then they add that to the % of the public vote you got. Whoever gets the lowest combined total (out of 200%, which should please Apprentice candidates) is eliminated.
It's more difficult to follow, but a lot fairer. You could probably even keep the precious dance-off if you wanted, the public favourite would almost certainly never be in it.”
Blimey - some people have trouble following the scoring system we've got, there'd be meltdown on here if we had a system like that
Don't they have a dance off then - I thought the overall bottom couple went straight out and then there was a dance off between the second and third from bottom overall?
Originally Posted by floppers:
“There is of course the issue of Ms Bussell who hasn't necessarily yet been inducted into the judges' cabal and looks suspiciously like she might award points on the dancing alone.
Doesn't five judges put everything out of kilter and mean Len's veto will be worth nothing?”
“There is of course the issue of Ms Bussell who hasn't necessarily yet been inducted into the judges' cabal and looks suspiciously like she might award points on the dancing alone.
Doesn't five judges put everything out of kilter and mean Len's veto will be worth nothing?”
Oooh. Len's not going to be happy if they don't follow his wishes.
Originally Posted by floppers:
“There is of course the issue of Ms Bussell who hasn't necessarily yet been inducted into the judges' cabal and looks suspiciously like she might award points on the dancing alone.
Doesn't five judges put everything out of kilter and mean Len's veto will be worth nothing?”
“There is of course the issue of Ms Bussell who hasn't necessarily yet been inducted into the judges' cabal and looks suspiciously like she might award points on the dancing alone.
Doesn't five judges put everything out of kilter and mean Len's veto will be worth nothing?”
Actually, Darcey could be good for Chris - she likes to see people having a ball and perform the dance, so she may not save technically the best dancer, it might be whoever she finds more convincing in having a love of dance.
Originally Posted by floppers:
“There is of course the issue of Ms Bussell who hasn't necessarily yet been inducted into the judges' cabal and looks suspiciously like she might award points on the dancing alone.
Doesn't five judges put everything out of kilter and mean Len's veto will be worth nothing?”
“There is of course the issue of Ms Bussell who hasn't necessarily yet been inducted into the judges' cabal and looks suspiciously like she might award points on the dancing alone.
Doesn't five judges put everything out of kilter and mean Len's veto will be worth nothing?”
I think Darcy Bussell will be a big fan of Ali's due to the balletic nature of her dancing.
Originally Posted by Scattyjan:
“Blimey - some people have trouble following the scoring system we've got, there'd be meltdown on here if we had a system like that
Don't they have a dance off then - I thought the overall bottom couple went straight out and then there was a dance off between the second and third from bottom overall?”
“Blimey - some people have trouble following the scoring system we've got, there'd be meltdown on here if we had a system like that
Don't they have a dance off then - I thought the overall bottom couple went straight out and then there was a dance off between the second and third from bottom overall?”
Oh they've resorted to all sorts of gimmicks this year because the ratings are plunging faster than Len into a post rugby match bath full of SPORTSMEN. (There were two weeks like that - due to be 3 but someone unexpectedly pulled out via injury (fortunately not, you know, the only interesting person competing as so easily could happen...)) But mostly the scoring system has worked like I said above.
Originally Posted by Monkseal:
“Oh they've resorted to all sorts of gimmicks this year because the ratings are plunging faster than Len into a post rugby match bath full of SPORTSMEN. (There were two weeks like that - due to be 3 but someone unexpectedly pulled out via injury (fortunately not, you know, the only interesting person competing as so easily could happen...)) But mostly the scoring system has worked like I said above.”
“Oh they've resorted to all sorts of gimmicks this year because the ratings are plunging faster than Len into a post rugby match bath full of SPORTSMEN. (There were two weeks like that - due to be 3 but someone unexpectedly pulled out via injury (fortunately not, you know, the only interesting person competing as so easily could happen...)) But mostly the scoring system has worked like I said above.”
ah, well - let's keep our fingers crossed the PTB are looking at these other options then!
Originally Posted by nancy1975:
“
I'd still much rather have a good dancer who can entertain me in the final rather than a 'great' dancer (debatable) who doesn't entertain me.
IMO.”
“
I'd still much rather have a good dancer who can entertain me in the final rather than a 'great' dancer (debatable) who doesn't entertain me.
IMO.”
He is the poorest dancer left in the competition and his supporters know this but still want him to go through which is why they are blowing a gasket this week about changing the rules, the judges being biased by favouring the better dancers, slating all those who can dance better, blah, blah, blah.
It's silly as he is the most popular person and will probaably therefore go through anyway but they seem to want everyone to ignore what is obvious from watching the show. HE IS THE POOREST DANCER LEFT and neither his "personality" or his relationship with Ola can change what is obvious to anyone with eyes in their head and a modicum of honesty.
Donnie Osmond has been performing for 40+ years and still couldn’t remember a whole routine or learn to keep a proper stance throughout a number after months of training. He won anyway which is how the show goes. However, it is ridiculous to pretend he is a great dancer - as silly as those who are acting outraged because Chris’ Charleston wasn’t given 10s when to a neutral it is clear that he didn’t get a 10 because his routine was not good enough – even though it was his best performance because the dance suited him.
It doesn’t take a dance purist to recognize the quality of someone’s dance just someone who isn’t blinded by their partiality.
A personality can win SCD, as can a great dancer, as can a good dancer with a nice personality depending on the year. Chris is a not terrible but not good dancer with a huge fanbase and he has a chance to win just as Donny Osmond did. Those are the facts.
This is a strong case for the dance-off to be scrapped.
Why should the public favourite be eliminated on the judge's say so?
Why should the public favourite be eliminated on the judge's say so?
Originally Posted by What name??:
“He is the poorest dancer left in the competition and his supporters know this but still want him to go through which is why they are blowing a gasket this week about changing the rules, the judges being biased by favouring the better dancers, slating all those who can dance better, blah, blah, blah.
It's silly as he is the most popular person and will probaably therefore go through anyway but they seem to want everyone to ignore what is obvious from watching the show. HE IS THE POOREST DANCER LEFT and neither his "personality" or his relationship with Ola can change what is obvious to anyone with eyes in their head and a modicum of honesty.
Donnie Osmond has been performing for 40+ years and still couldn’t remember a whole routine or learn to keep a proper stance throughout a number after months of training. He won anyway which is how the show goes. However, it is ridiculous to pretend he is a great dancer - as silly as those who are acting outraged because Chris’ Charleston wasn’t given 10s when to a neutral it is clear that he didn’t get a 10 because his routine was not good enough – even though it was his best performance because the dance suited him.
It doesn’t take a dance purist to recognize the quality of someone’s dance just someone who isn’t blinded by their partiality.
A personality can win SCD, as can a great dancer, as can a good dancer with a nice personality depending on the year. Chris is a not terrible but not good dancer with a huge fanbase and he has a chance to win just as Donny Osmond did. Those are the facts.”
“He is the poorest dancer left in the competition and his supporters know this but still want him to go through which is why they are blowing a gasket this week about changing the rules, the judges being biased by favouring the better dancers, slating all those who can dance better, blah, blah, blah.
It's silly as he is the most popular person and will probaably therefore go through anyway but they seem to want everyone to ignore what is obvious from watching the show. HE IS THE POOREST DANCER LEFT and neither his "personality" or his relationship with Ola can change what is obvious to anyone with eyes in their head and a modicum of honesty.
Donnie Osmond has been performing for 40+ years and still couldn’t remember a whole routine or learn to keep a proper stance throughout a number after months of training. He won anyway which is how the show goes. However, it is ridiculous to pretend he is a great dancer - as silly as those who are acting outraged because Chris’ Charleston wasn’t given 10s when to a neutral it is clear that he didn’t get a 10 because his routine was not good enough – even though it was his best performance because the dance suited him.
It doesn’t take a dance purist to recognize the quality of someone’s dance just someone who isn’t blinded by their partiality.
A personality can win SCD, as can a great dancer, as can a good dancer with a nice personality depending on the year. Chris is a not terrible but not good dancer with a huge fanbase and he has a chance to win just as Donny Osmond did. Those are the facts.”
I can't talk about Donny Osmond as I haven't seen DWTS. I don't make the claim Chris is a great dancer. I don't think any of the 4 left are great dancers. They have as many weaknesses as strengths.
However I don't blow a gasket because somebody popular wins a light entertainment show. They're not dancing for a professional contract.
Originally Posted by What name??:
“But they obviously don't want that. What they want is a show were the celebs are motivated to work on their dance and therefore produce some good quality entertaining dancing and create competitive atmosphere (which is why the judges scores are important) and one which attracts a non-dance audience and keeps personalities in til late in the competition for their fans (which is why the viewers vote is important).
In other words the show is meant to be balanced. However if the poor dancers fans keep moaning about some people (dance judges especially) prefering people who can dance being unfair then it gets ridiculous. Of course dancing professionals and judges will prefer contestants who can dance or make an effort to learn!”
“But they obviously don't want that. What they want is a show were the celebs are motivated to work on their dance and therefore produce some good quality entertaining dancing and create competitive atmosphere (which is why the judges scores are important) and one which attracts a non-dance audience and keeps personalities in til late in the competition for their fans (which is why the viewers vote is important).
In other words the show is meant to be balanced. However if the poor dancers fans keep moaning about some people (dance judges especially) prefering people who can dance being unfair then it gets ridiculous. Of course dancing professionals and judges will prefer contestants who can dance or make an effort to learn!”
How generous (and patronising) of you and the dance purist at the BBC to allow the public to pay good money to keep their favourites in week after week, until the latter stages of the competition. Only to throw them out in favour of those who you deem to be the better dancers.
I hope you'll be able to stay up and watch the show when it's consigned to late night BBC2 as Come Dancing was.
Originally Posted by What name??:
“He is the poorest dancer left in the competition and his supporters know this but still want him to go through which is why they are blowing a gasket this week about changing the rules, the judges being biased by favouring the better dancers, slating all those who can dance better, blah, blah, blah.
It's silly as he is the most popular person and will probaably therefore go through anyway but they seem to want everyone to ignore what is obvious from watching the show. HE IS THE POOREST DANCER LEFT and neither his "personality" or his relationship with Ola can change what is obvious to anyone with eyes in their head and a modicum of honesty.
Donnie Osmond has been performing for 40+ years and still couldn’t remember a whole routine or learn to keep a proper stance throughout a number after months of training. He won anyway which is how the show goes. However, it is ridiculous to pretend he is a great dancer - as silly as those who are acting outraged because Chris’ Charleston wasn’t given 10s when to a neutral it is clear that he didn’t get a 10 because his routine was not good enough – even though it was his best performance because the dance suited him.
It doesn’t take a dance purist to recognize the quality of someone’s dance just someone who isn’t blinded by their partiality.
A personality can win SCD, as can a great dancer, as can a good dancer with a nice personality depending on the year. Chris is a not terrible but not good dancer with a huge fanbase and he has a chance to win just as Donny Osmond did. Those are the facts.”
“He is the poorest dancer left in the competition and his supporters know this but still want him to go through which is why they are blowing a gasket this week about changing the rules, the judges being biased by favouring the better dancers, slating all those who can dance better, blah, blah, blah.
It's silly as he is the most popular person and will probaably therefore go through anyway but they seem to want everyone to ignore what is obvious from watching the show. HE IS THE POOREST DANCER LEFT and neither his "personality" or his relationship with Ola can change what is obvious to anyone with eyes in their head and a modicum of honesty.
Donnie Osmond has been performing for 40+ years and still couldn’t remember a whole routine or learn to keep a proper stance throughout a number after months of training. He won anyway which is how the show goes. However, it is ridiculous to pretend he is a great dancer - as silly as those who are acting outraged because Chris’ Charleston wasn’t given 10s when to a neutral it is clear that he didn’t get a 10 because his routine was not good enough – even though it was his best performance because the dance suited him.
It doesn’t take a dance purist to recognize the quality of someone’s dance just someone who isn’t blinded by their partiality.
A personality can win SCD, as can a great dancer, as can a good dancer with a nice personality depending on the year. Chris is a not terrible but not good dancer with a huge fanbase and he has a chance to win just as Donny Osmond did. Those are the facts.”
I don't watch the whole show but that couldn't have happened very often, judging by the reviews I was reading. And his musicality and timing were fantastic in the dances I saw - and these are the qualities that tend to draw me to someone, rather than their heel leads. Chris has a certain amount of that natural feel, which is why he appeals to me more than say, Laila. And the partnership is also very important, so, while I'll agree, technically, Chris is the weaker technical dancer of those remaining, he's one of the most entertaining on other levels. I love Ricky's dancing generally, but last week my fave dances were the Charlestons - I can be impartial.
Old news :yawn:. The Daily Star is 2 years too late. This happened with Gethin (Alesha was obviously going to get more votes that Matt so I knew he was 'doomed', especially with Matt dancing a 40 dance in the DO). Clearly it's a slow news day or the Beeb have upset them again.
Originally Posted by nancy1975:
“I don't think any of the 4 left are great dancers. They have as many weaknesses as strengths.
However I don't blow a gasket because somebody popular wins a light entertainment show. They're not dancing for a professional contract.”
“I don't think any of the 4 left are great dancers. They have as many weaknesses as strengths.
However I don't blow a gasket because somebody popular wins a light entertainment show. They're not dancing for a professional contract.”
Neither do I. But equally I dont' pretend that those I like are necessarily the greatest at dance or those that produce dances I love are necessarily interesting. Nor do I believe SCD is only about dance. I like to be realistic I do.
Originally Posted by River Man:
“How generous (and patronising) of you and the dance purist at the BBC to allow the public to pay good money to keep their favourites in week after week, until the latter stages of the competition. Only to throw them out in favour of those who you deem to be the better dancers.
I hope you'll be able to stay up and watch the show when it's consigned to late night BBC2 as Come Dancing was.”
“How generous (and patronising) of you and the dance purist at the BBC to allow the public to pay good money to keep their favourites in week after week, until the latter stages of the competition. Only to throw them out in favour of those who you deem to be the better dancers.
I hope you'll be able to stay up and watch the show when it's consigned to late night BBC2 as Come Dancing was.”
Hope you realise that I don't make the rules and I'm also not a judge, nor a dance purist. I'm just someone who noticed how the rules of the show work and accept them rather than moan continually about them and try to change them to suit my particular favourate's position each year.
Originally Posted by nancy1975:
“So Chris can't dance or made an effort to learn?
Ricky W comes aht and performs everything the same to me...all his dances have blended into one undefinable mush as far as I'm concerned.
As for Ali's Latin..
I'd still much rather have a good dancer who can entertain me in the final rather than a 'great' dancer (debatable) who doesn't entertain me.
IMO.”
“So Chris can't dance or made an effort to learn?
Ricky W comes aht and performs everything the same to me...all his dances have blended into one undefinable mush as far as I'm concerned.
As for Ali's Latin..
I'd still much rather have a good dancer who can entertain me in the final rather than a 'great' dancer (debatable) who doesn't entertain me.
IMO.”
Agree with you Nancy.
Originally Posted by Scattyjan:
“But I think the majority of the viewers and voters aren't either dance purists nor just go for personality, past finalists and winners have generally been a combination (like Donny - see, perfect example!). Under the old rules less people were unhappy. And more people watched and voted. And generally the better dancers made it through to the end. I have no problem with my fave going out in a public vote but it sticks in the gullet when you know your fave is the majority fave and they go out in a dance off, when they'd have gone through under the old rules.”
“But I think the majority of the viewers and voters aren't either dance purists nor just go for personality, past finalists and winners have generally been a combination (like Donny - see, perfect example!). Under the old rules less people were unhappy. And more people watched and voted. And generally the better dancers made it through to the end. I have no problem with my fave going out in a public vote but it sticks in the gullet when you know your fave is the majority fave and they go out in a dance off, when they'd have gone through under the old rules.
”
Donny could both - Chris can't. Donny could act - Chris hams it up for votes.
Under the old rules there wouldn't have been any females in the last 3 in series 4 or 6 and Alesha would have been the one leaving in the SF in series 5. Some female voters might want all male finals every year but its perfectly understandable why the programme now stops them from getting that.
I wouldn't worry about the public vote being overturned. The numbers of people voting on nearly all reality TV shows has declined.The voters represent themselves alone and are a small proportion of the audience. If the voting indeed has Chris 40% ahead it means the figures are something like 60. 20, 10, 10 which suggests that he has the same sort of extra support that went to JS, Colleen on DOI or Eoghan on X factor - they all had 40% for being hopeless at what their shows were about. If the same people vote as vote as are voting on IAC at the moment, given who is left there and how all the younger females, anyone gay and anyone black went , its not surprising Chris is doing well too.
There are two options how you deal with it. If you allow the public vote to take the weakest dancers through to the final and they win you encourage people to back someone similar next year, the show becomes incredible and indefensible and no one any good will sign up or bother much trying. If you stop them the people backing them for some reason will be upset but the ones switching off because there's no point watching a dancing show where the best dancers go will stay.
As it is its going to be pretty random which way it goes.
Originally Posted by River Man:
“How generous (and patronising) of you and the dance purist at the BBC to allow the public to pay good money to keep their favourites in week after week, until the latter stages of the competition. Only to throw them out in favour of those who you deem to be the better dancers.
I hope you'll be able to stay up and watch the show when it's consigned to late night BBC2 as Come Dancing was.”
“How generous (and patronising) of you and the dance purist at the BBC to allow the public to pay good money to keep their favourites in week after week, until the latter stages of the competition. Only to throw them out in favour of those who you deem to be the better dancers.
I hope you'll be able to stay up and watch the show when it's consigned to late night BBC2 as Come Dancing was.”
The public don't pay to keep their favourites in . They pay to increase the chances of them staying in. Its always dependant on other people's votes and performances. As Chris would have no chance with no votes and can go through in some circumstances however dire his dances are, his voters can still help him in the next two votes. If people vote for the weakest performer though they can't really be that surprised if they don't make it.
Originally Posted by What name??:
“Donnie Osmond has been performing for 40+ years and still couldn’t remember a whole routine or learn to keep a proper stance throughout a number after months of training. He won anyway which is how the show goes. However, it is ridiculous to pretend he is a great dancer - as silly as those who are acting outraged because Chris’ Charleston wasn’t given 10s when to a neutral it is clear that he didn’t get a 10 because his routine was not good enough – even though it was his best performance because the dance suited him.
It doesn’t take a dance purist to recognize the quality of someone’s dance just someone who isn’t blinded by their partiality.
A personality can win SCD, as can a great dancer, as can a good dancer with a nice personality depending on the year. Chris is a not terrible but not good dancer with a huge fanbase and he has a chance to win just as Donny Osmond did. Those are the facts.”
“Donnie Osmond has been performing for 40+ years and still couldn’t remember a whole routine or learn to keep a proper stance throughout a number after months of training. He won anyway which is how the show goes. However, it is ridiculous to pretend he is a great dancer - as silly as those who are acting outraged because Chris’ Charleston wasn’t given 10s when to a neutral it is clear that he didn’t get a 10 because his routine was not good enough – even though it was his best performance because the dance suited him.
It doesn’t take a dance purist to recognize the quality of someone’s dance just someone who isn’t blinded by their partiality.
A personality can win SCD, as can a great dancer, as can a good dancer with a nice personality depending on the year. Chris is a not terrible but not good dancer with a huge fanbase and he has a chance to win just as Donny Osmond did. Those are the facts.”
To honest, if our celebs had the workload, schedule and travelling that both Donny and Mark (at least) had to contend with, then a few forgotten steps would be the least of it!
The percentage vote scoring and the use of the dance off only twice give the 'public popular' DwtS contestants a better chance of progressing and ultimately their 3 person final gave the audience a choice of showman versus dancer versus journey which about covers all the options.
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