I think to the general public she doesn't matter and is barely noticed. She doesn't speak.

I think the arrest played more of a role with casual viewers and the fact their VT's are boring and they have no ITT face time and the fact they both do come across as a bit 'dull' for television. Quiet, private, focused. Both rather introverted

Ricky's brush with the daft Pap isn't an issue for me. I think that pap was 100% in the wrong, and if he got flattened that's his own fault. I'm not predjudiced against him because of looks / soap actor or any of those things. SCD has, and always will be 50% popularity contest. More in fact if the viewers vote hold more sway in the event of a tie. If a contestant doesn't engage the public, for whatever reasons then they won't win. Ricky simply hasn't engaged with the public, that's why he's not getting the votes - simples. Judges overmarking doesn't do him any favours either. Telling FM's to revise their voting in his favour is just as likely to seal his fate as the judges overmarking does.

Well if because one person goes against what you believe is more likely to make you not vote for them, that's a bit daft. I would never not vote for someone just because a FM thinks I'm wrong, ive got more sense than that.

Stewie, I never derided you personally by stating I believe people should change their reasons. I'm allowed my opinion just as you are. Like many people said to me last nght quite rightly, I think you need to calm down and take a step back and put my comments into context. If I had said "i believe Stewie is a complete ****" then I could undersand your anger but disagreeing with your opinion without insulting you is all I did and is also allowed on here.

But who is the best dancer?
Is it the dancer that tops the judges leader board - in which case should no one vote for anyone but the judges pick for that night?

What about the weeks when Ricky hasn't been top - should no one have voted for him either because by that judgement he wasn't the best dancer either?

Are you intimating that in any given week the person the judges decide is 'the best' should be exempt from the public vote and through by virtue of being judges choice that week and the also rans fight out the rest of the postions amongst themselves?

Who is to say Chris or Ali or even Laila didn't come out (or aaahhhtttt) do the dance of their lives for the dances/choreography they were allocated that night?

Some people judge on dancing alone (although it's interesting that some Rachel fans last year are Chris fans this and some Tom fans last year are Ricky fans this which does seem to suggest it's all a bit ethereal), some dance on personality alone and some a combination of the 2. Sometimes they mesh ... sometimes they don't. That's all part and parcel of Strictly.

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Last edited by Stewie_C : 06-12-2009 at 15:05

duplicate post

I've done as asked. Calmed down a bit, and reviewed your comments objectively. The thing is this:- What got me riled up is the comments that the criteria people use to determine who they vote for is wrong, and people should revise their voting criteria. OK, I accept that you didn't mean to offend people, and believe me I know how this place operates and in my case no offence was taken. I accept that you have apologised for any offence caused, but at the same time the assertion that people's method of choosing who they vote for is wrong hasn't been withdrawn as far as I can make out. Now that may be genuinely how you feel, and I accept that. I also accept that several glasses of champers might have been responsible for the thoughts actually making it to being posted, when the sober Dr. B. would probably not have worded it that way. However, it should be obvious in the cold light of day that that assertion is likely to be the cause of some offence. Although it wasn't aimed at me by name, I probably fall into one of the groups of people voting on the wrong criteria - hence my getting the hump.

'overmarking' is one of the most bizarre concepts on these boards. If I were to believe these boards then everyone is overmarked and everyone is undermarked. What it really means is that if you like Chris and Ola and they don't dance as well as either Ali or Ricky such that the judges score Ali and Ricky higher then by default Ali and Ricky have been overmarked simply because the judges don't agree with you whereas in reality they have been marked correctly but you are too biased to see that.

It's all subjective. Overmarking. Undermarking.

Despite the fact that I've posted loads on this thread it is a rather bizarre notion that preferring oranges to bananas means you are crazy. I like Cola best. Others see dance-heaven in Ali Bastian. Apples and pears. Lambos and Maseratis. United or City.

Its got nothing much to do with the public as a whole (who watches, who doesn't watch, who votes, who doesn't vote? ) Its got nothing much to do with personality either and more to do with VTs. first impressions, and biases.

Rachel Stevens had massive support when she had her own pop fan base and can still win FHM polls with men and she can beat Tom 26-1 with the same dances and personality if you change the audience on the SCD tour. Inspite of ( possibly because of) this, she can't get votes on the TV show with a predominantly older white female audience. Louisa can also do better on the tour than with the TV audience. Emma Bunton was and is massively popular, but not with SCD voters.

All TV reality shows have some sort of problem with certain types getting the votes and others normally getting hardly any. The list of black people going early everywhere is long and the list of white southern, obviously middle class, females winning is short. SCD's recent voting's has common features with that for IAC and dancing On Ice - look at who went early on IAC and who would have gone on SCD without the dance off. Voting may also have changed over the years as a result of the voting scandals and fewer people voting - although it has to be said that the first series of SCD had a hopeless case in the final 2 and the first series of DOI didn't get its strongest dancer to the top 2. Swash, Pasquale, Biggins, De Campo, Nolan, Carty, MacIntyre would all do well on SCD too. You also have the gimick candidates doing well recently with Eoghan and J and E on X Factor or Brian on Big Brother - possibly because they attract younger voters . You also have the problem on SCD that its a lot harder for the producers to counter this by making it clear that other people are better dancers . Lloyd Webber or Simon Cowell would give people they wanted out a dire song that was unsingable or dull - on SCD you suspect Chris would win votes dancing the undanceable song.

Ricky just does nothing for me and I will gladly put my hand up and say I don't vote for the best dancer and I never have done. For me it's development, character, the chemistry and do I like watching them factors that influence where my vote goes. Ricky is the best all round dancer but he and Natalie have the Ice Factor.

I'm surprised by the vehemence with which some FMs are posting on this thread.



"The sooner people realise this the better"? Better for whom? Perhaps people are perfectly satisfied with their choice of favourite and don't want to switch. But in any event, as someone posted earlier, people are not saying Ricky is not a good dancer - maybe not as good as the judges think, admittedly, but he is nontheless a good dancer. Doesn't mean they have to support him. Eric Clapton is a good guitarist but I don't like his work. Same with Ricky. He doesn't make me want to watch him. He's never done anything that made me go 'Oh wow!'. He doesn't light up the screen for me. Others do, and I will vote for them to try to ensure that they carry on doing so.


Not "utterly rididulous" at all. You are entitled to your opinion as are others, and my opinion is equally as valid as yours. You think Ricky & Natalie are brilliant - I don't. Doesn't make me wrong, so there is no need to despair of me or anyone else who disagrees with you.

Pavarotti was a fantastic singer , The Killers are allegedly very good . Dean Martin was very popular in his day .
I dont like any of them , its very very simple , people have differnt tastes , Ricky may be the most wonderfull dancer , a genius , he may be simply terrifiic , I dont like watching him

And for anyone to tell me that I am missing out , or should see that he is wonderfull , or that I should realize he is the best make me laugh .

Like who you like , vote who you like , support who you wish to support , sing praises for them on high , write columns about them and wax lyrical for all I care
But dont tell me who to like and who not to and who to find good and who not to

Whereas Chris and Ola the "I don't care what the judges think cos the public love us" aren't?

You are absolutely spot on.
I think this is actually at the root of so many arguments on here.
Whilst most people acknowledge that what you say is true with the rules as they are at the moment, not everyone likes the fact.
To some of us, the fact that people choose (as is their right) to pick a favourite who doesn't give the best dance performance is a shame. Everyone acknowledges that Strictly is an entertainment programme, but how that entertainment is defined differs. Some see entertainment in terms of personality and others see it in terms of dance ability, to generalise somewhat.
People have suggested that if you are just entertained by the dance then you'd be better off watching a professional ballroom competition, but for me, the appeal of Strictly is in watching a dance competition for non-dancers.

From en entirely personal point of view, my sense of "fairness" if you like rebels against the idea that the best dancer may not win, but that reflects my personal view of what I would like emphasis of the show to be.
I don't think there is ever going to be agreement between the different groups of viewers over what Strictly "should" be.
I guess the BBC just has to try and find a middle ground. The current drop in viewing figures suggests that they aren't quite getting it right at the moment.

Ricky may do the best foxtrot - but he has bandy legs and pigeon toes and has the personality of a gnat. I cannot warm to him - and I couldn't care if he danced like Wayne Sleep or Fred Astaire - I still wouldn't vote for him. Strictly IS NOT A DANCING COMPETITION - it is an light entertainment show where the general public have half the vote. I will vote for the person I like, the person who tries hard, the PERSON I WARM TO and no amount of abuse from other posters will make me think otherwise.

The public are not mad just because they disagree with other posters on this forum. Everyones' view should be respected and if they differ there is no get in a strop.

Jeez, seriously some fms need to take a chill pill and lighten up. If Chris and Ola Chops win, it's not going to affect their lives.

You can't make the public vote for people they don't like or warm to. Seemples.

FGS

I posted that comment last week when I was in the height of anger, rage and champagne. For once in my bloody life I let go and had a rant on here. I then apologised as I realised that although my intention wasnt to abuse or shout, some people took it that way and when I apologised they accepted and understood why I said it so what is the point of rehashing this? Apart from telling me off?

You know, Ive spent my time on this forum being as fair, kind and respectful towards the FMs and about all the contestants, even the ones Im not a fan of - I just didnt comment on them as I am a fan of if you cant say anything nice/constructive, dont say anything at all which you clearly arent if you saying he has the personality of a gnat which is the epitome of maturity. There are FMs on here who get away with some really vile comments and noone bats an eyelid but then everyone thinks they are funny/harmless and let them get away with it.

Its not very fair to use the bandy legs reason as a negative against him as had been explained a gazillion times it is due to his serious limb-threatening accident he had years ago and the corrective surgery afterwards.

For me, Strictly IS a DANCING COMPETITION. The technique and skill entertains me, I love it as a amateur choreographer and an ex-student of many levels of dance. I, however, realise that for others that it is an ENTERTAINMENT COMPETITION and I have repeatedly discussed that and can completely understand why they believe this but that doesnt mean that my opinion on this is wrong, it just means it is different to YOURS but it is still valid.

I am within my rights to post what I like on here within the DS T&C, the Cola fans/Entertainment fans do not own this forum and therefore should accept there are a minimal amount of people on here who dont agree with them. Most of them are understanding and are willing to debate, some of those however arent.

Thanks for making me rant again, Im sure I will flamed to kingdom come now.
Last edited by drbolognaise : 09-12-2009 at 00:04

Jibber, wibble, burble, tweet.

That Bruce Foreskin's a lovely young lass you know...

What are these giraffes dancing round the screen for? I don't remember Countdown being like this.

Nurse..!

Ooh lovely... pink pills tonight. Pretty...

Regarding light entertainment, hasn't it always?