I don't buy the fact that the judges manipulate the marks to get the results they want. That definitely doesn't make sense tonight as the judges' positions were absolutely right and I don't see how anyone could think otherwise.

However, if the judges were wishing to manipulate the situation it would seem reasonably easy this year. (I don't really believe it, I just like statistics and probability. I like lies and damn lies too .)

For example, those claiming that Ali's second place goes any way to prove that the judges aren't trying to "fix" anything is wrong. Once Laila had been placed fourth, she was a dead cert for the dance off and the boot given the way she performed. There was no way that the nightmare Ricky/Ali dance off was going to happen then.

It's also seemingly apparent now that Ricky's support is pretty limp following two successive dance offs. This means that, should the judges wish to manilpulate anything, all they have to do is place Ali top next week regardless. She now looks a dead cert to bag second with the public so would obviously be the one out of the three to avoid the dance off.

Like a say, I don't really believe this.

But it wouldn't be very hard to do if the judges were of a mind to do so.

Well they should, the rules are pretty clear. The couples dance and get scored by the judges. Whoever comes top with the judges gets (next week) 3 points, 2nd 2 points and 3rd 1 point except in the event of a tie. This counts for 50% of the vote. The public vote and the order in which they come with the public has the same points system applied to it. Whoever the bottom two are then dance off with the judges choosing who stays and who goes.

If the public can't understand that then the state of education has rapidly declined since I was at school.

As for it being more likely that Cola will go out if he is 3rd with the judges, that should equally be obvious.

Anyway, how do we know that Cola is the preferred winner? All we know is that they got more votes this week and last week than Ricky.

You're missing the point. They're not manipulated into voting for someone they don't like; it's who they like that's manipulated. Shows do that by controlling what the public sees and arranging it in ways that are likely to have certain effects.

Strictly does that too - just how many times in the run up to Blackpool did we see Craig saying how desperate he was to dance at Blackpool and how awful it would be to be eliminated on his birthday

And what did we get...an Ali v Zoe dance off that removed one of the best dancers of the series

For all we know, a majority of viewers would prefer that Ali or Ricky win rather than Chris. Why should they be ripped off and deprived of their preference?

First past the post is widely considered a poor system, and when multi-voting is added as in SCD, it's even worse. For all we know, if a different system (such as approval voting) were used, Chris would stand no chance.

I agree with you there. I think the % method of calculating scores (a la DWTS) is definitely fairer.

Mmm - they won't be cos in the final you need a majority of the public vote to win.

X factor/SCD are just entertainment shows. We are not talking about 1984 here!

X Factor is not an entertainment show - Its Scowell's money printing machine

On the BBC website it says:


http://www.bbc.co.uk/pressoffice/pre...trictly8.shtml

So it doesn't seem like it will change.


What we do know is he had less votes than the other two.


At the rate the banks are being 'managed' I can't see the public doing a worse job, can you?


Not necessarily.

Loom at this this way: The judge's favourite always gets through. In favourite I mean the one who finishes top of the leaderboard - they either are put straight through or saved in the Dance Off.

Up until there are 3 couples remaining, the public favourite will remain also - for example, if Laila had been the public favourite tonight:

Ricky 4+1 = 5
Ali 3+3 = 6
Chris 2+2 = 4
Laila 1+4 = 5

Ricky 4+2 = 6
Ali 3+1 = 4
Chris 2+3 = 5
Laila 1+4 = 5

Ricky 4+3 = 7
Ali 3+2 = 5
Chris 2+1= 3
Laila 1+4 = 5

However at the three couple stage, the public vote loses a lot of it's power. Even though the vote is supposedly 50/50, it's more 60/40 as the judge's could dispatch the public favourite:

Ali 3+2 = 5
Ricky 2+1 = 3
Chris 1+3 = 4

Chris'll go despite topping the votes.

The judge's get their favourite through - the public do not. For a supposed 50/50 system that seems very unbalanced.


Agreed - but they should've been changed before the series began. Or they should've made sure there were 4 people in the semi final, so the public favourite was ensured of progress.

Chris & ola chops to win!!!

Yes - but only if the judges allow it!

Huh... yes, I never thought of it like that.

If the judges wanted to get rid of Chris, they'd simply need to score it Ali - RIcky - Chris:
[LIST][*]Ali & Brian: 3 Judges + 2 public = 5[*]Ricky & Natalie: 2 Judges + 1 public = 3[*]Chris & Ola: 1 judges + 3 public = 4[/LIST]
So, if that happened on the scoring next week (not impossible), the only tactic for Chris and Ola fans would be to vote for Ricky and Natalie, in the hope of getting:
[LIST][*]Ali & Brian: 3 Judges + 1 public = 4[*]Ricky & Natalie: 2 Judges + 2 public = 4[*]Chris & Ola: 1 judges + 3 public = 4 - public decider so C&O go through[/LIST]
Huh.

I think you might just be overestimating the intelligence of many of the voting public. That voting public voted in their droves for Tom last year when mathematically he couldn't be saved. Many of them had simply failed to do any basic maths!

so lets dump the judges vote and go to public vote from here on in, judges give their comment but no score, let us decide who places where.

Fundamentally, the system is designed so that the judges more-or-less get the power to decide one finallist, and the public more-or-less get the power to decide one finallist.

After that, the public then picks the winner.

I don't have a problem with there being at least one good dancer in the final. Am I alone in that?

If you do that you might as well give Chris and Ola the trophy now.

Yes - exactly right.

That's what the X factor do after the final 5 - maybe if the BBC had more respect for the viewers they would do the same!

To be fair, I only realised that once you'd pointed it out, and I'm not stupid.

Well, most of the time I'm not stupid.

Maybe if the BBC had more respect for the dancers they'd scrap the public vote.

I could live with that.

What makes the public fit to judge a dance competition?

I wouldn't dump the Judge's vote. I still think they should score the dances, and get their marks converted into 3, 2, 1. Then the public vote, then the result's announced. Simply no dance off.

The Dance Off is the only thing preventing the public favourite from going through. Nothing else.

In other words axe Strictly Come Dancing.

Its Strictly Come Dancing - not the world latin dance championships.

Why let the public decide anything - why not let's have a dictatorship where Len and Alesha make all our laws and decide who gets put into a concentration camp.

Just joking - but I believe in democracy and public votes. Cos its the least worst system!

Indeed, and with three couples left, the dance off would not be in operation in a "normal" series (one with no withdrawals). As soon as a celeb has to pull out, show policy dictates that the judges have more power over the result than they would have done without the withdrawal.

I don't agree with that.

Yes - but the public don't get the finalist they want potentially just sloppy seconds!

And who is to decide who is the best dancer anyway - hundreds of thousands of people or 5 individuals of whom 2 aren't even proper experts anyway in the field.