That's not my argument here. Indeed, the thread's about the judges comments, not the audience reaction.

The votes do seem to have a tendency to head towards panto gurners, regardless of how good or poor the technique in other aspects of the dance. However, it's the judges seeming inability to see "selling it" in other terms that I'm talking about here.

I've always tended to give the celebs the benefit of the doubt and assumed that their facial expressions are what comes naturally to them rather than something they are 'putting on' for the dance. I think the facial side of things is a technique to be learnt, just as finishing properly with the hands is, and if one is pushed for time in training then it's going to take a lower priority.

That's not to say that faces are never pulled deliberately - sometimes good (the Charleston faces), sometimes with dire conquences (Tom Chamber's Paso, anyone?). But I think a lot of time what we see is just what happens to occur as a product of nerves, trying to remember the steps and getting caught up in the dance. It seems a little harsh to keep going on about the contrast between the facial expressions of a sports reporter and those of two actors.

I also say this as someone who had 'SMILE!' hissed in my ear at the start of my first (and thus far only) dance exam - quite frankly there was so much going on in my head, my face was the least of my concerns!

Anyhoo, I think 'selling it' comes from the fact that Chris has thrown himself into it every single week - he's never had a 'this isn't my dance' excuse, when he's gone wrong he's carried on, and he's been willing to push himself out of his comfort zone and embrace whatever the competition has thrown at him. That's good enough for me.

Then I don't get the argument really, cos by implication it would conclude that the judges are robots with only objective criteria to award points on which foot went where and which lines were finished and which weren't. When the reality is, one judge can often say of a dance that was great technically and I thought you sold it brilliantly, while another sitting next to them can say that was great technically but I didn't think you sold it. They're as subjective as anyone else when it comes to something like 'selling' a performance ... the gloss to the undercoat of their supposed objective marking on technique, if you like.

I don't think a face can really be devoid of any expression at all. However, if Chris adopted a neutral expression (as I'll call it), or even a non-exaggerated one, then it would be more obvious what's lacking in the rest of his dancing and it would probably mean the end of claims that he "sold it".


So it was often claimed about Rachel. I'm not convinced it was true.

Re Chris, I actually preferred his dances this week to Ricky's. Ricky's seemed very dull, for some reason, while Chris's were fairly good, despite the faces.


The pros doing it annoys me too, and I did kinda mention it in the first post in the thread.
Some of the guest pros were even worse.
<-- One was like that.

So it's not all that extraordinary that Chris is doing it if the pros do it themselves.

It's part of the way dance is presented and it becomes a subjective judgment whether you find the faces the dancers pull off-putting or not.

Moreover, it can irritate more with some dancers than others. I couldn't help but laugh at the strange faces Tom Chambers used to pull, but I don't seem to mind or notice as much with Chris.

Incidentally, this was the first week I rather enjoyed Ricky's dancing. I finally got what all the fuss was about

There's no such implication.


I don't especially care how subjective the judges' tendency to equate OTT facial expressions with "selling the dance" is. I just think it's (a) wrong, and (b) annoying.

Wrong, because there are clearly other ways to sell a dance (does anyone want to claim, for example, that Vincent and Flavia failed to "sell" their Argentine Tango?), and because wide-mouthed gurning isn't selling - it's just an over-exaggerated expression.

Oh, that's clear then ... in which case, sometimes I'd agree with you and sometimes not. Bit like Craig going on about Ricky's pigeon toes and bandy legs ... it's not something that distracts me or I even notice much. Doesn't seem a bugbear with other judges much either.

Sometimes Chris puts on what I call the 'shriveller' when he dances ... think it was a disdainful look christened by Compo in some old episode of Last Of The Summer Wine. It actually makes me chuckle, but in a good way. With someone else doing it, my reaction might be irritation.

I didn't say it was extraordinary.


Regardless of whether gap-mouthed gurning is off-putting or not, it does not = "selling" the dance.

That pros do it is not a point in its favour, imo. It's a point against the pros who use those faces.

Unfortunately, professional ballroom and latin dancing seems to have evolved in some unfortunate directions, rather like the way some breeds of dogs have ended up with features that cause health problems. The pressures of competition can produce some rather strange effects.


I cringe whenever I see Tom's leap into this showdance in the clips that introduce "Choreography Corner".

Me too. I nearly voted!

Does nobody agree with me that having the right facial expression is also part of technique and perhaps we should cut people a bit of slack?

I find it impossible to take Chris seriously when he is making those ridiculous faces. He can get away with it in the Charleston, which is just a fun dance, but in the sexier dances he just looks laughable.

Totally agree - imagine a Tango done with a big smiley face - would be all wrong !! There has to be expression in a dance or it would be soulless and to say anything different IMO is ridculous

Some dances have to be 'sold' it is part of their makeup - A samba - the party fun dance and that is how it should be approached - same goes to some extent in the Jive and the Cha should be cheeky and the rumba romantic that is the flavour of those dances danced without them and the character is gone.

As Flavia and Vincent showed the Tango is all about the couple being wrapped up in each other - and again it would be ridiculous if they were smiling - but Flavia and Vincent would be the first to put on the smiles etc if they had been doing a Samba for instance.

Expression can also be in the way the dance is danced and Chris and Ola did express the Samba last night - might not have been technically perfect but all the flavour of what the dance entailed was there.

Please see Natalie Lowe's tango face...

That was pretty weird for a professional.

(Oh dear. Just realised I might be branded a "basher". So I probably should put up the tomato-shield and explain I have no problem with Natalie. Not my favourite, but her competitive spirit is welcome and always good to redress the Latin-pro imbalance on the show).

Chris has a mobile face. People who don't like him term it "gurning" pejoratively.

Compared with training, when he's always counting, he tones down his expressions and mouth-movement a lot on the night. He has really improved and tries to make his expression fit the dance.

But he has a reputation to live down now and viewers tend to have grown very fixed by this stage and are not prepared to acknowledge progress.

I have highlighted the key part of your comment.

It has to be appropriate to the dance. Having the right facial expression is miles away from 'pulling faces'.

I am no fan of Natalie at all unfortunately I find her off putting she is certainly good at Ballroom and she admits that is her forte but I do not like her Latin routines much and I feel that it is her Latin that will lose Ricky the SCD crown

He has the same 'set' to his upper and lower jaws as Tom Chambers. I don't think there's a great deal he can do about some of his expressions - it's just the way his face is put together.

Hey, one man's meat...

To me Ali doesn't even have ONE facial expression I can remember! I swear I wouldn't recognise her if she sashayed through my front door in a ballgown with Tess Daly for company to the strains of the Dave Arch band.

I have to say I think the biggest problem with Ricky's cha cha last night was the awful choreography.

Totally agree!

What is "wide mouth gurning" to one person is enjoyment and expression to another. You don't like Chris's facial expressions, therefore you have decided that they are inappropriate and OTT. Others clearly don't agree but it doesn't make them wrong (or you for that matter). The performance side of dancing is subjective. For example, you found Colin Jackson's AS "nauseating". I'd suggest you were in a minority there but it doesn't make you wrong. That's how the performance came across to you - fair enough. Likewise, you can't see how anyone can watch Chris "gurning" and think it had anything to do with selling the dance. Again, fair enough but also fair enough that others have a different perspective.

As to the likes of Rachel and Vincent and Flavia not having to adopt the same facial expressions but still being able to sell the dance - this is not an exact science. There is no one way to sell a dance, just like there's no one way to interpret an acting role. Many people have played King Lear over the years and some performances will have been light years away from others. People will have their own idea as to how the part should be played and may love some interpretations and hate others. This doesn't necessarily mean that one is better than the other. It's all subjective.

I agree. Facially, Ali appears to be entirely emotionless. She performs the different routines well, but her facial expression remains the same, she never appears to get "in character".
At least Chris gives it a shot, it doesn't always come off, but he is improving. It also seems he can't win with the judges, in the Waltz I thought he tried to look kind of "wistful"..it suited the mood of the music. Craig then said he should have looked more cheerful. I suppose they (the judges) want the celebrity to dance around with that "rictus grin" so beloved of the dancing fraternity..I remember it well from my younger days watching the old "Come Dancing" in the 60's

I think that's part of his appeal - his attempts at 'expression' might go a bit over the top at times, but you can see he's having a damned good try.

However, as you say, he's definitely improving. and his dances certainly don't lack personality, that's for sure.

I agree entirely. But my question was referring back to my post further up the page (which got lost in the middle of a debate) where I was trying to put forward the idea that maybe the celebs don't deliberately pull certain faces - there may be an extent to which it just 'comes out that way', and that getting it right is a technical skill that is challenging to get right on top of all the other things they are trying to remember.

Yes, Ginger, it obviously doesn't come easily to some of them. Chris has to try very hard indeed to adapt his face to the required expression. All credit to him because I think his waltz face was perfectly acceptable despite the fact that he'd probably far rather count/laugh/chat his way through it.

He's working hard and doing a darned good job.