I don’t think that is true. Some people, in fact many, have obviously persuaded themselves that he has improved greatly and can sell a dance because they like him rather than grown to like him because he has improved greatly and can sell a dance. That is why despite their shrill insistence they aren’t convincing those that haven’t joined the fan club.

He seems like an OK guy. I admire the fact that he and Ola are making the best of what they have and exploiting their bubbly personalities, I admire her choreography which has been brilliant attempts to disguise his weaknesses but that doesn’t mean that his dances are good, entertaining or great performances. Trying to persuade the uninitiated is like trying to persuade friends that your kids are superbly talented when they do their party pieces at Xmas and making them sit through it 3 times in order to convince them. In other words it ain’t going to do anything but bore them.

But I don't believe anyone is trying to convince or persuade or convert you.

It would be a futile exercise.

People are just laying out the reasons why Chris and Ola happen to be their favourites. I don't believe anyone is disputing the fact that they are technically the weakest couple left.

But the fun and joy they bring to the show make up for their technical shortcomings and are considered equally important qualities to those who view Strictly as nothing more than light entertainment.

It doesn't matter though does it .. people obviously aren't voting for him for his dancing ability.

Chris and Ola could even get away with 'puppetgate' (infact they practically have been).

People talk about Ricky/Ali's lack of personality .. there would be a field day on here if either of them came out and danced a waltz (one of the, if not THE most, simple of the dances) with a look of constipation on their face.

You have a point, but that's what I meant by equal bias.

Performance isn't an exact science. What is a great performance skill to one viewer is a big ham and cheese sandwich to another. Neither viewer is right and neither viewer is going to convince the other most of the time.

Saying that Chris is a great performer isn't necessarily bias - it's opinion unless you're his mum or girlfriend which is obviously a different case altogether and it's why your "kids at Christmas" analogy doesn't quite work for me.

If you like Chris's style of performing - you are going to think it's good.

You don't like it so you think think it's a pile of old rubbish and don't mind saying so.

It doesn't necessarily mean that either side is biased and neither does it mean that either side is necessarily unbiased.

You can't hold that it's the "unbiased" who don't think that Chris isn't a good performer. The people who don't like his style of performing are just as likely to be biased to one side as pro Chris viewers are to the other. It's not just Chris's fans who have a monopoly on bias.

Really?


To which it was obviously pointed out that he has only performed one dance well in months and then regressed the next week.


And when questioned about why should everyone just fall in line and agree with the party line and that some weren't seeing this mythical improvement especially as the judges are still repeating to him the same comments they did in the begining week after week after week. Gurning, shoulders, poor content, mistakes etc etc etc.


Facts are mutable in Cola world. Must be the sugar

I see what you are saying but I disagree. Peformance isn't an exact science but equally it is not entirely subjective.

There are few that would agree that Carlos Acosta is a worse dancer than Chris for example. Or that de Niro isn't a better actor Madonna. You might say it is purely opinion and therefore subjective but I would say that one is just a better performer as I'm not a complete believer in relativity.

In this case all the judges of dance background, performance background and the dancers themselves are critical of Chris' demeanor and failure to portray the essence of his dances. Nearly everyone who doesn't label themselves a fan or supporter can see that he is poor at performance and yet you would have me believe that it isn't bias that is effecting his fans. I can't think this is coincidence when the link is so obvious. I think even most fans of his performance style if they went to a show and saw someone dancing that way would think they were cheesy. It is only their background knowledge of his personality and elationship with Ola that makes them like their dances not the actual performance.

This is further indicated by the fact of his supporters deciding to vote for him and support him before he dances each week or they even can judge how he is taking to a particular dance which further incicates that how and in what manner he dances is fairly irrelevant to them.

That's OK. If you like someone you like them. But it is creepy to insist others should too.

The SCD/ITT marathon is based on loads of VT of them being themselves and learning about dance. Who they are, how they speak, what kind of person they appear to be completely informs our opinions.

We don't view them exclusively as dancers. They don't claim to be. They are professionals in other areas who are learning to dance and hoping to entertain.

Their dance ability is but a proportion of their appeal. How much effort do they seem to be making? How much are they enjoying it? How likeable are they in general?

That's like watching a singer who can't sing .. but can put on a show with a bit of a dance routine and some pyro (John and Edward for instance).

Anyway .. this is getting like the Kings new clothes .. this myth that Chris is a good performer .. no-one that pulls those faces could possibly be deemed a good performer .. what's good about looking like your trousers are three sizes too small?.

If the others did it during their ballroom dances .. we'd all know about it.

The votes for Chris are all about what he does .. or what he and Ola do .. outside of the dance floor.

He may as well of been in the jungle .. if we were just going to vote for Mr Personality.

I agree that performance isn't entirely subjective but it's too simplistic to say that because Chris has been criticised for aspects of his performance by "those who know" that it means he can't perform. He has also been praised for "selling the dance" and I would argue that is part of performance. I also think you're being far too general in tarring all of Chris's fans with the same "bias" brush. There will be fans of his that are biased and will claim a good performance even if they've watched with their eyes shut (non fans would probably say that would be a good performance ) but there are others who became fans of his because they enjoyed and appreciated the way he performed.

In any case, originally, it was less that I didn't believe all Chris fans were biased about his performance simply because they're fans (although I don't), but more that your OP seemed to claim that those who criticised him were unbiased. I think I may have misinterpreted here. When you said, "Clearly unbiased people don't think so", you weren't saying everyone (or even most) people who criticise him are unbiased but more that there are unbiased people watching who know about dance and don't think he's a good performer. That's fine and I'd agree to a certain extent but I still think it's too simplistic.

I'd say there are many unbiased people who, while they wouldn't claim that Chris is the best actor there, enjoy his performances more than those of Ali or Ricky even though they are clearly better technically. I haven't and I can't imagine I will ever vote for Chris (unless there's a massive, unprecedented epiphany in the next couple of shows), yet I enjoyed watching Chris's samba more than Ali's on Saturday because of the "performance". Does "more enjoyable" mean "better"? Possibly not. But I don't think you can divorce the two completely.

Not quite.

It's like listening to a singer who has soul in their voice even if they aren't note perfect compared to someone who never sings out of tune but always without emotion.

I know who I'd rather listen to....

Ooh, I'm right with you there, darling.
xx

Absolutely. It's why Leona Lewis' cover of Run is one of my least favourite things in the world. On the other hand, Judi Dench's Send in the Clowns is actually amazing despite its obvious technical shortcomings.

However, I'd dread to think of someone who combines no technique and no performance.

This is totally off topic as to where Chris is in my book - I think he has some technique and overdoes the performance personally, so I'm not sure how to classify him!

He's having a blast.

I wish I bought that.

That's what I see, and that's what I see in Ola. It's what's vivified her this year.

Nothing will replace Jade this year but the pair of them are a damned good substitute.

yes, that's why whenever anyone sings off key during the live performances they get slaughtered on here.

he hasn't got 'soul' in his performance .. his face looks like a tortured cat and his shimmies make 'dad dancing' look cool.

Fair enough - I don't feel it myself, is all.

Agree wholeheartedly on Jade, though - her departure has hurt this series more than I think the producers expected it to.

If you don't tap in to a vibe you don't (or should I say 'If one doesn't etc etc...).

I'm still surprised that so many have expressed such regret about Jade's absence. As an athlete - especially a female one - I expected her to get a bad 'press' because she'd be seen as over competitive, arrogant, blah, blah. Certainly I saw plenty of knee jerk reaction to that effect both here and also on the BBC forum (I read it, to see who's thinking what.....!) in the early days, but I was delighted to see what looked like an inexorable rise in her popularity as the competition progressed. I'd like to bet the BBC hadn't foreseen it, either. I really think she could have won.

She's a bit like Banquo's ghost this year.

But Team Cola are fun. They make me smile very, very broadly. In the absence of Jade & Ian, that will have to suffice this year.

Re:Jade

There are always going to be lots of viewers who want to vote at least in part for excellent dancing.

Jade appeared in the dance off early on when viewers were still getting to know the celebs and before Jade and discovered her wow factor.

As the series progressed it became apparent to many (me included) that there was some disparity in the celebs. Those who could nail the dances technically had trouble selling them and vice versa.

I think it's fair to say that most viewers look for someone who can dance very well and engage them while doing so. It was becoming apparent to a fair number that, at the time of her exit, Jade was probably the only celeb who could really do that (I know Ali and Ricky fans will disagree - I don't pretend to speak for them). She could sell a dance, she was strong in both disciplines and she had charisma.

It's a shame she went before her time - I really think she would have had a decent chance of going all the way. She's the only celeb I've voted for this series and the way things stand, I can see it remaining that way.

Still, never say never. I'll wait to see what the remaining three do on Saturday and beyond before I decide.

Whre's my post?

It's lost.

We don't know how close the votes are between Ricky & Ali or even Chris for that matter I am expecting Chris to get the final but with Ali & Ricky it could be down to just how good there dances are on Saturday

deleted - posted in wrong thread!