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Old 08-12-2009, 20:21
kaycee
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We tried to buy a small tv for someone to use in a flat.

They have no main aerial connection, so needs to use an indoor booster aerial.

We initially lent them our old small analogue tv which worked ok, but when we bought and tried a nice new digital tv it didn't work at all.

We took it home and tuned the stations in while connected to our main aerial, but it still wouldn't work with the indoor booster aerial.

The tv was sold as having built in freeview, but this appeared to be non-existant.

The shop has promised us our money back which is fair enough, but doesn't solve the problem.

Surely there are numerous people who have premises with no access to a main aerial or Sky type dish who manage to use a tv?

Please can anyone suggest a solution.

Many thanks.
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Old 08-12-2009, 20:57
-GONZO-
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Im pretty sure that its not the TV that is the problem, but the aerial more than likely is.
In my experience indoor aerials are not much use with freeview, also for you to get any sort of signal does depend which direction the signal is comming from and whether or not the aerial can pick this signal up.
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Old 08-12-2009, 21:03
David (2)
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just to clarify.....the old *analogue tv* that they used, worked......on analogue (no freeview box connected).

And the new tv has *Freeview built in*.

If thats the case, you could always switch the new set to analogue tv mode (maybe a buttom marked *DTV-ATV* on the remote for switching between the services).

Be aware that some parts of the UK dont yet have a Freeview signal - some locations wont until 2012. In many area's, the Freeview is running alongside analogue, but the the Freeview is on reduced power, so analogue gets picked up more easily than freeview. And in other area's the analogue has been turned off, and replaced by a super strong freeview signal.

As the old tv could find the analogue service, then it sounds like the freeview is either not being broadcast in that part the country yet, or its on air, but on reduced power. In the latter example, an indoor aerial (even a boosted model) will struggle to find that weak freeview signal.
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Old 08-12-2009, 22:49
John Currie
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Please can anyone suggest a solution.
Get an external aerial fitted.
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Old 09-12-2009, 04:55
kaycee
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Get an external aerial fitted.
Not possible for someone living in a rented very small flat.
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Old 09-12-2009, 04:59
kaycee
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Thanks for the replies.

The thing is, apart from the freeview being non-existent, the set isn't picking up any station - analogue included - in any that is remotely watchable unless it is using main aerial - which, as I said, in this instance isn't possible.

What do other people do if they want tvs in rooms without aerial sockets - such as kitchens, bedrooms, or rented accommodation?
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Old 09-12-2009, 05:00
kaycee
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Sorry - double post
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Old 09-12-2009, 09:08
bobcar
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What do other people do if they want tvs in rooms without aerial sockets - such as kitchens, bedrooms, or rented accommodation?
They either fit an aerial lead, use something like an AV sender (if they have an STB somewhere else) or they do without.
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Old 09-12-2009, 09:19
chrisjr
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The problem is you are using the worst possible device for receiving broadcast television signals. In the worst possible location for such purpose.

There are two main issues with indoor aerials.

Firstly is the amount of signal they suck out of the air. There is a near direct correlation between the size of an aerial and the amount of signal it can extract. (in very crude terms I know). As a general rule of thumb the bigger the aerial the more signal it can produce. So a small indoor aerial is already at a disadvantage compared to a proper roof mounted aerial.

Secondly is location. It is no coincidence that the best place for an aerial is up high in free air in most instances. Using an aerial indoors is subject to signal attenuation by the walls and the effects of signal reflections. The more walls the signal has to pass through the weaker it becomes. Add in the effects of the signals bouncing around inside the room and that can further disrupt the signal.

So unless you can see the transmitter mast out of the window and hence have a strong signal to start with you are starting off from a compromised position.

Amplification can help. However it cannot help if the signal you want to receive is buried in noise. it will simply amplify the noise as well as the wanted signal, plus add a little bit of noise itself.

It then can be compounded by the tuner in the TV set. If that is not particularly sensitive then it can struggle to work properly with the already weakened signal from the aerial. Not all TV tuners are created equal. So just because you get some sort of result with one TV does not mean you will get similar results with a different one.

Perhaps not what you wanted to read?

One thing that might work, albeit not very elegant, is to use a small 9relatively) outdoor aerial in place of the indoor one. If you have a cupboard or wardrobe pointing in roughly the right direction then you might be able to hide it on top of that.

Something like a Log Periodic type aerial may do the trick. They are quite compact usually so may be hidden a bit easier.

For example...

http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?ModuleNo=47022

That one is also amplified but you can get "ordinary" versions. Not the cheapest solution going but then again if you cannot use an outdoor aerial outdoors then it may be the only alternative.
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Old 09-12-2009, 14:46
kaycee
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Thanks for all that info, it is very useful. I have come to the conclusion that - as far as tellies are concerned - "progress" (ie from old fashioned bulky tvs to the nicer looking modern digital ones) is something far from being advantageous to an awful lot of people.
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Old 09-12-2009, 14:56
bobcar
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Thanks for all that info, it is very useful. I have come to the conclusion that - as far as tellies are concerned - "progress" (ie from old fashioned bulky tvs to the nicer looking modern digital ones) is something far from being advantageous to an awful lot of people.
There is no reason why a panel TV should have a worse receiver than a CRT, it all depends on how much the manufacturer put into it.

Whether it is an old CRT TV or a new LCD the Freeview reception is much tougher for some locations. This is not always true though for myself my Freeview reception is much better.

One thing I don't think Chris mentioned (he mentioned everything else) is that a TV aerial good for analogue may not be suitable for Freeview - again it depends.
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Old 09-12-2009, 15:22
chrisjr
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There is no reason why a panel TV should have a worse receiver than a CRT, it all depends on how much the manufacturer put into it.

Whether it is an old CRT TV or a new LCD the Freeview reception is much tougher for some locations. This is not always true though for myself my Freeview reception is much better.

One thing I don't think Chris mentioned (he mentioned everything else) is that a TV aerial good for analogue may not be suitable for Freeview - again it depends.
Since we are talking indoor aerials it didn't seem relevant. All the indoor aerials I've ever seen have been wideband. Don't think I've ever seen one that is grouped.

A grouped aerial certainly could produce different results on digital to analogue depending on what UHF channels are in use

Agree about the tuner. The display technology or age of set doesn't really come into it. It is simply how well, or poorly, the set is designed.
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Old 09-12-2009, 18:49
bobcar
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Since we are talking indoor aerials it didn't seem relevant. All the indoor aerials I've ever seen have been wideband. Don't think I've ever seen one that is grouped.
I was talking about proper aerials as a general point so we cross threaded.
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Old 09-12-2009, 19:11
David (2)
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this may sound obvious, but if you are moving tv's from one location to another, are you scanning for channels (both analogue and digital). One location maybe served by a different transmitter to the other, requiring a channel scan (this goes for analogue as well as digital).
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