They wouldn't have stood a chance if all the people who voted for him [or even the majority] had spent just roughly 50p and downloaded Joe's song from one site. He'd have left Rage for dust. Unless they've all went out and bought his CD perhaps ? I hope Amazon doesn't run out, as I'm ordering it just after Christmas. There's no point in me ordering it now, as it won't get here in time.

Won't it get here quicker if you order it now, though? Or am I being slow and reading what you're saying wrong?

Why would I have a grudge against successful businessmen? In my original post I said Simon Cowell was a brilliant businessman who had concocted a superb marketing strategy to sell records. However, the net effect of this process (be it by Cowell or the millions of other people who have done the same thing) has been to fill the mainstream music space with pieces of music that are, in my opinion (note the word "opinion") entirely worthless on an artistic level. From my perspective they have no lasting appeal, they have no meaning beyond the practical function of generating revenue, they make no statement, they regurgitate past trends for the sake of retaining their audience and, in the case of Christmas number ones, the song becomes almost incidental because people are simply affirming their love of the personality who they've just voted for on a TV show.

Now, call me old fashioned, but I don't particularly like this development. I don't think it's been positive for society, I don't enjoy the music it's produced and I think it's going to have a lasting negative effect on the music industry. If you think it's been a positive development then you're entitled to that perspective.

Good post!

has he really filled this mainstream space though?

surely the charts are only a part of mainstream music, and acts that Cowell is responsible for only makes up a small amount of what's in the charts?

Iain

... people bought the spice girls because they liked the track, they liked it without a 14 week media circus and prime time tv show promoting them. their tracks were technically better and original plus varied. they were individuals with a degree of charisma .... im NOT a spice bints fan, but ill credit them enough for producing decent pop.

anyway, this campaigne IS a rage against cowell...

A poster on Havenforum says his local radio station have said RATM "have the Xmas No.1"

How many people have said to me they're buying Joe's song because "he's so young", "he's a nice lad" "he won X Factor, he deserves it" and not mentioned once they liked the song.

I remember how many pre-orders the X Factor single had last year before the winner was even announced, was that about "liking the song".

If Joe had just released a cover of The Climb without having the X Factor back up, would he still be fighting for the number 1 slot.

and by the way, I have the single and the album from 1992, I do like Killing In The Name, I normally request it when I go to a rock bar.

Agreed.

and for the first time ever I've said something positive about the Vice Girls.

Can't believe nobody has posted this, but we did it!

1 KILLING IN THE NAME RAGE AGAINST THE MACHINE 502672
2 THE CLIMB JOE MCELDERRY 450838
3 BAD ROMANCE LADY GAGA 61677
4 THE OFFICIAL BBC CHILDREN IN NEED MEDLEY PETER KAY'S ANIMATED ALL STAR 52605
5 STARSTRUKK 3OH3 FT KATY PERRY 40742
6 YOU KNOW ME ROBBIE WILLIAMS 38435
7 3 WORDS CHERYL COLE 36232
8 RUSSIAN ROULETTE RIHANNA 34094
9 DON'T STOP BELIEVIN' JOURNEY 33337
10 MEET ME HALFWAY BLACK EYED PEAS 32517
11 TIK TOK KESHA 26571
12 YOU ARE NOT ALONE X FACTOR FINALISTS 2009 24404
13 DOESN'T MEAN ANYTHING ALICIA KEYS 23415
14 DECEMBER SONG (I DREAMED OF CHRISTMAS) GEORGE MICHAEL 22243
15 LET THE BASS KICK IN MIAMI GIRL CHUCKIE & LMFAO 21556
16 MORNING AFTER DARK TIMBALAND/NELLY FURTADO/SOSHY 19687
17 FIGHT FOR THIS LOVE CHERYL COLE 18859
18 FAIRYTALE OF NEW YORK POGUES FT KIRSTY MACCOLL 18457
19 WHATCHA SAY JASON DERULO 18278
20 LOOK FOR ME CHIPMUNK FT TALAY RILEY 17775

presumably it goes without saying that they like it?


i always thought that pre-orders referred to orders from stores from the distributors, in anticipation of sales, rather than pre-orders by customers in shops.


well, yes - that much is obvious.


so presumably you didn't need to buy it this week.

Iain

woooops!!!!!!!!!

Nope, it says that they want to mother the young lad and want to protect him from the "scary metallers"

I'm not entirely sure on your 2nd point, so I'm afraid I can't comment.

However, your 3rd point, are you saying that if Joe had went into a recording studio last month, covered The Climb, and got it released, without 6 months of X Factor hype, he still would had number 2?

I didn't need to buy it this week, but that said, when does anyone need to buy any song. Especially in this day and age when a track can be easily heard on Youtube, Spotify etc.

I did buy it, if anything, to have it in a different format. I have the album on cassette and the single on 7'' vinyl.

Oops!

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And how many people bought the RATM track because they liked it, other than you?

Hasn't this song got to number one in exactly the same way X-Factor singles normally do, by promotion over merit.

Surely if you wanted to "put things right" and restore the good old days of xmas number ones you should have thrown your support to that Peter Kay track which is more like a "traditional" xmas number one.

What happens next year? Cowell won't jump off his X-Factor gravy train just yet so will another facebook group start a campaign to get another unlikely hard rock song to number one?

If so, it just creates Pop X-Factor run by Cowell vs Rock-Factor run by some FB group, both as undeserving of Xmas number one and earning sales through a campaign rather than just producing good music.

post deleted

Ahhhhhhhh!!! Told you so.

that must be it. although i'm not sure these scary metallers are that scary (although the 'post whatever swear words you can think of about Joe' thing on a FB wall is charming), or how buying his record would protect him from them.

i don't know why its such a leap of faith for people to think people might actually just buy it because they like it.


i didn't say that, no.

i agreed with what you said, and said it was obvious.


well, of course no-one ever really needs to buy any music.

but the point, which i thought was obvious, was that if you already have some music, you've really no need to buy it again.

so who knows why people were downloading multiple copies of KITN, other that to artificially boost sales of the track, and fix its chart position.

Iain

Just like how X-Factor's viewing figures are fixed or the liklihood that 20m individual people voted for the winner.

the viewing figures are fixed?

to be fair, i didn't know that.

there's probably a difference between people voting more than once, than people buying multiple copies of something they already have.

Iain

Lol, you've clearly never heard it then.

The chart compilers know precisely how many.

RATM's margin of victory was actually way larger than 50K, but they discounted thousands of multiple downloads.

i'm not sure i'd need to hear something to realise that other people might like different things than i like.

i know its nice to think everyone likes the same great stuff that we do, but it seems that different people really do like different things.

me? i'd take Joe's single over pish like that riverside or i'm in miami, girl that are getting played so much right now.

but i guess some people do like them.

weird, huh?

Iain

presumably any margin of victory created artificially by multiple downloads don't count, therefore the margin of victory is what it is.

besides, going by these threads, it seems that people could get around it. for example, how would they tell if people bought copies from different places, using different cards and different accounts?

Iain