Maybe to help cut down on some of the criticism about under & over marking the judges should only score the dances once everyone has danced and then just score them from best to worst - no more silly 10's from Alesha and no more silly 3's from Craig just an overall mark depending on how many couples are in the competition - it would also stop them marking an early dancer high and leaving themselves no where to go with the scoring
Don't Judge the dances until everyone danced
And you don't think that people would still argue about their favourate being underranked rather than undermarked? How sweet and innocent of you. 
It might not be too difficult to judge when there are 4 or less couples. But for the first couple of shows it would put the couples at the beginning at a distinct disadvantage.
I do like the group dance and think this should remain next year. Its a good way to compare them all at the same time.
I do like the group dance and think this should remain next year. Its a good way to compare them all at the same time.
Originally Posted by What name??:
“And you don't think that people would still argue about their favourate being underranked rather than undermarked? How sweet and innocent of you.”
“And you don't think that people would still argue about their favourate being underranked rather than undermarked? How sweet and innocent of you.
”
no I know people will still complain but it would make things clearer for the judges and people watching
Good idea but impractical when you have 14 couples to score.
The judges will be hard-pushed to remember in any detail routines performed early on in the show. This will render their scores even more unreliable.
The judges will be hard-pushed to remember in any detail routines performed early on in the show. This will render their scores even more unreliable.
Originally Posted by -Sid-:
“Good idea but impractical when you have 14 couples to score.
The judges will be hard-pushed to remember in any detail routines performed early on in the show. This will render their scores even more unreliable.”
“Good idea but impractical when you have 14 couples to score.
The judges will be hard-pushed to remember in any detail routines performed early on in the show. This will render their scores even more unreliable.”
surely they could make notes & provisional scores and then review them once all the couples have danced they could always review footage whilst a pro dance of guest singer was on
Possibly the judges could individually rank the couples as they perform?
That is, the first couple out set a standard and each subsequent couple is ranked accordingly.
Is 2 better than 1? Was 4 better than 1 but not as good as 2 or 3?
Then the couples are given marks for where they rank in each judges scheme of things a la the public vote.
Would still probably be too impractical but at least the judges would only need to keep overall standard in mind rather than individual marks.
Just another suggestion.
That is, the first couple out set a standard and each subsequent couple is ranked accordingly.
Is 2 better than 1? Was 4 better than 1 but not as good as 2 or 3?
Then the couples are given marks for where they rank in each judges scheme of things a la the public vote.
Would still probably be too impractical but at least the judges would only need to keep overall standard in mind rather than individual marks.
Just another suggestion.
Originally Posted by tabithakitten:
“Possibly the judges could individually rank the couples as they perform?
That is, the first couple out set a standard and each subsequent couple is ranked accordingly.
Is 2 better than 1? Was 4 better than 1 but not as good as 2 or 3?
Then the couples are given marks for where they rank in each judges scheme of things a la the public vote.
Would still probably be too impractical but at least the judges would only need to keep overall standard in mind rather than individual marks.
Just another suggestion.”
“Possibly the judges could individually rank the couples as they perform?
That is, the first couple out set a standard and each subsequent couple is ranked accordingly.
Is 2 better than 1? Was 4 better than 1 but not as good as 2 or 3?
Then the couples are given marks for where they rank in each judges scheme of things a la the public vote.
Would still probably be too impractical but at least the judges would only need to keep overall standard in mind rather than individual marks.
Just another suggestion.”
Really good idea i like this method
Originally Posted by Jan2555*GG*:
“Thats pretty much what they did in the group VW and look what a horses backside they made of that.”
“Thats pretty much what they did in the group VW and look what a horses backside they made of that.”
The problem with the group one was that there was too many couples for them all to watch so they missed things. If they ranked on the individual dances they wouldn't miss things. I think this would be the most fair way
Originally Posted by Kittykat scot:
“The problem with the group one was that there was too many couples for them all to watch so they missed things. If they ranked on the individual dances they wouldn't miss things. I think this would be the most fair way”
“The problem with the group one was that there was too many couples for them all to watch so they missed things. If they ranked on the individual dances they wouldn't miss things. I think this would be the most fair way
”
They would have been better to do the VW like they do the group dances on Dancing with the Stars.
Let them all dance at once for a set length of time and tap the couples from out so at the end the only couple left dancing is the winner.
Why should SCD - a mere tv show - have to be so different to sports such as gymnastics or figure skating where judges mark as they go rather than waiting 'till the end? 
I don't believe it would cut down on the conspiracy theorising either. 'twould increase it instead.
I don't believe it would cut down on the conspiracy theorising either. 'twould increase it instead.
Originally Posted by Late Romantic:
“Why should SCD - a mere tv show - have to be so different to sports such as gymnastics or figure skating where judges mark as they go rather than waiting 'till the end?
I don't believe it would cut down on the conspiracy theorising either. 'twould increase it instead.”
“Why should SCD - a mere tv show - have to be so different to sports such as gymnastics or figure skating where judges mark as they go rather than waiting 'till the end?
I don't believe it would cut down on the conspiracy theorising either. 'twould increase it instead.”
don't both those sports have degrees of difficulty - though - maybe they should include that in the SCD scores
Originally Posted by welwynrose:
“don't both those sports have degrees of difficulty - though - maybe they should include that in the SCD scores”
“don't both those sports have degrees of difficulty - though - maybe they should include that in the SCD scores”
They do...and both are very specific about what scores points and what leads to deductions.
The good thing about skating marking is they separate technical scores from "presentation". That would work really well for strictly with the judges marking in a much more technical way, leaving the entertainment value mark to the public. We'd hopefully end up with a better balance between the technical and the entertainment aspects and we'd then not need to argue about the judges over or under marking because they would be judging something most of us wouldn't have a clue about!
Of course they'd have to get rid of the current crop of judges and replace them with professional judges who really know what to look for.
Originally Posted by Kittykat scot:
“Really good idea i like this method
The problem with the group one was that there was too many couples for them all to watch so they missed things. If they ranked on the individual dances they wouldn't miss things. I think this would be the most fair way”
“Really good idea i like this method
The problem with the group one was that there was too many couples for them all to watch so they missed things. If they ranked on the individual dances they wouldn't miss things. I think this would be the most fair way
”
That wasn't a problem. A 'normal' competition final has 6 couples in it so judging the strictly group dance should have been a breeze. I even know of one occasion at the British Junior Championships where 4 couples tied for recall to the final so they called all 9 of them to the final and the judges had to place them 1st to 9th.
I have always said that the scores should be delivered after everyone has danced and it should only be a ranking from 1st to last. No ties, no arguments about what a 7,8,9 etc means to each judge. It would be so much better
Originally Posted by breppo:
“Bad idea. It would mean less Alesha on TV.”
“Bad idea. It would mean less Alesha on TV.
”
Surely that's a good thing
Originally Posted by mandyxxxx:
“They do...and both are very specific about what scores points and what leads to deductions.
The good thing about skating marking is they separate technical scores from "presentation". That would work really well for strictly with the judges marking in a much more technical way, leaving the entertainment value mark to the public. We'd hopefully end up with a better balance between the technical and the entertainment aspects and we'd then not need to argue about the judges over or under marking because they would be judging something most of us wouldn't have a clue about!
Of course they'd have to get rid of the current crop of judges and replace them with professional judges who really know what to look for.”
“They do...and both are very specific about what scores points and what leads to deductions.
The good thing about skating marking is they separate technical scores from "presentation". That would work really well for strictly with the judges marking in a much more technical way, leaving the entertainment value mark to the public. We'd hopefully end up with a better balance between the technical and the entertainment aspects and we'd then not need to argue about the judges over or under marking because they would be judging something most of us wouldn't have a clue about!
Of course they'd have to get rid of the current crop of judges and replace them with professional judges who really know what to look for.
”
The 'presentation' mark in figure skating is not an entertainment mark:
Quote:
“... the presentation mark is effectively a second technical mark encompassing several specific criteria explicitly listed in the rules. It's not just opinion or a measure of how much the judges like a skater's performance (or even peripheral matters such as music, costume, or hairstyle, as some sports writers have asserted). While it is possible for skaters to achieve art through their sport, that is not what the judges are considering.
What these judges are looking for in their presentation marks, as specified in the rules, is:
1. Harmonious composition of the program as a whole and its conformity with the music chosen
2. Variation of speed
3. Utilization of the ice surface
4. Easy movement and sureness in time to the music
5. Carriage and style
6. Originality
7. Expression of the character of the music
8. Unison (in the case of pairs skating only)”
“... the presentation mark is effectively a second technical mark encompassing several specific criteria explicitly listed in the rules. It's not just opinion or a measure of how much the judges like a skater's performance (or even peripheral matters such as music, costume, or hairstyle, as some sports writers have asserted). While it is possible for skaters to achieve art through their sport, that is not what the judges are considering.
What these judges are looking for in their presentation marks, as specified in the rules, is:
1. Harmonious composition of the program as a whole and its conformity with the music chosen
2. Variation of speed
3. Utilization of the ice surface
4. Easy movement and sureness in time to the music
5. Carriage and style
6. Originality
7. Expression of the character of the music
8. Unison (in the case of pairs skating only)”
http://www.cbssports.com/u/women/ska...emore12298.htm
Skating now uses a different system, & in it, instead of a 'presentation' mark, there are 'program components' which serve a similar purpose:
Quote:
“The program components score (PCS) awards points to holistic aspects of a program or other nuances that are not rewarded in the total element score. The components are:
1. skating skills (SS),
2. transitions (TR),
3. performance/execution (PE),
4. choreography (CH),
5. interpretation (IN).”
“The program components score (PCS) awards points to holistic aspects of a program or other nuances that are not rewarded in the total element score. The components are:
1. skating skills (SS),
2. transitions (TR),
3. performance/execution (PE),
4. choreography (CH),
5. interpretation (IN).”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Figure_skating
