When they, like, didn't:


(Emphasis in the original.)

http://www.allabouttango.com/history.htm

As leery Len has demonstrated over and over again, he knows sfa about AT.

Sadly his ego is such that even if an Argentinian AT dancer patiently explained the background to him he still wouldn't get it. He has his own ideas circa 1958. Ditto the paso doble

You can't teach an old dog new tricks, espcially when his views on dance teeter between 1950s and a snog 'round the back of the bike shed, gertcha variety.

Len's dead common really.

I think Len's just telling the story of what the dance is supposed to mean rather than actually giving a historical account of its origins.

Just like the celebs and partnerships on Strictly are given storylines (e.g. this year with the fun and cheeky 'Team Cola', the lovebird angle with Brian and Ali, the one to beat who keeps making mistakes with Ricky) so are the dances: the 'Rauncy Rumba', 'Cheeky Cha Cha Cha', 'Aggressive Paso Doble' etc etc ad nauseum, the AT is no different.

The producers seem to think we need a 'hook' with the couples and this has extended to the dances, apparently we need to be told exactly what we are about to see. Just one of those things that are part and parcel of the show

No need to be so pedantic over the history of dance, just watch and enjoy! (and mute and ignore Len if his description annoys you!)

Hey, he has said it so many times that it MUST be true. He never varies the wording. It was in his original script.

Like Weapons of Mass Destruction. If you say it often enough then it becomes true. Doesn't it?

I am no great fan of Len's but you are right Claire - Len for sure knows the origins of the AT as it is well known - he was just giving the populist version as portrayed by the Valentino film

I have to agree...he could hardly describe it as a ritual dance between a prostitute and her pimp....Anyway who really cares....Gauchos; pimps; protitutes or ladies of the night...What he is trying to evoke is the seedy and raunchy origins of the dance.

I don't understand all the fuss over the AT. I' find it faintly ludicrous, all that posturing and leg twirling.

Thank you for referring to it correctly as the Argentine Tango (to rhyme with time). I'm fed up with Claudia et al referring to it as the Argenteen Tango, or the Argentinian Tango.

At least Len gets it right!

So instead of 'raunch' and 'raw sex' should we really be expecting a cold and calculated approach to what it supposed to represent a commercial arrangement?

As for history, meh.

At some point, the history of all dance forms is mythological. Hell, we can't even agree on how salsa started, and that was only 30-odd years ago.

I've no idea why Len has to witter on about history, when he doesn't do so for - for example - the cha cha or the rumba. Why not talk about the dance? Why not talk about the renaissance in AT over the past 20-odd years?

I agree with you and the rest. Len has the essence of the thing. He can hardly say it's a dance between a pimp and a prostitute, I agree. I dislike the dance myself, but it's a Marmite one.

PS When you think about it, why would a pimp want to dance with his prostitute? Makes more sense Len's way.

In the early part of the 19th century social dancing was done standing opposite each other, think Jane Austen, called contradanza. Then in Europe came the Viennese Waltz, the first popular dance to use the closed hold, quite scandalous at the time, followed by the polka. The European nobility bought these dances with them when they moved to Argentina.

So in around 1880 when the tango originated it was danced on the edge of society in bars, gambling houses and brothels, places where lonely men gathered to meet and drink, they started experimenting with this new dance, which was considered obscene, even the lyrics were quite sexually explicit, although they were cleaned up later, but there were songs like "El Choclo" (corncob) which of course is a not too subtle phallic reference.

To dance in close embrace, cheek to cheek, chests together, legs invading each others space, all this at a time when to have a man put his hand on a woman's back (they were expected to wear gloves) was way too much. Decent families wanted nothing to do with this, and because the women who would dance it had to be paid, the men practiced and perfected their moves by dancing with each other.

From there onwards the AT filtered in to the boarding house areas where the migrants from Europe and the Argentinian interior lived. It was probably bought to the middle class and wealthier families by their young sons, who looking for fun and adventure visited these areas, and on returning home taught the moves to their sisters, and slowly some of the moves were incorporated slyly into waltzes etc, I bet they all felt very daring, this was around 1919/20, so slowly the dance came into society. It was then bought to Europe by families returning home to visit or live.

Now, this is just one version that I have heard, and DJ is right it doesn't really matter where it started.

I can understand not being thrilled by the ATs shown on SCD, Brendan and Lisa's still makes me cringe, they weren't even facing each other for half the dance .

There are so many fantastic ATs out there here is a show AT , sadly Javier & Geraldine no longer dance together.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1fJfB...eature=related

And to boot, we're supposed to imagine they're dancing it in a knocking shop!

I do quite like it though.

It's just another form of courtship. Like a lot of dances. At the very least it gives you a quick indication of how rhythmical your partner might be. Do they smell OK?

I am sure that the VT they showed of Len, discussing the Argentine Tango, this week was the same one that was shown last year.

It might come as some surprise to dear old Len that when you learn AT over here with professional Argentine dancers (the only ones worth bothering to learn from) they don't go on and on about brothels, or pimps or the sodding Pampas.

If you are an AT nutter you tend to do the research out of curiosity - especially about the music.

But when you're actually learning it the emphasis is on the connection you have with your partner, balance, intuition, tuning into him/her, hearing the music and going with it - and being subtle, imaginative and above all, having fun.

So frankly, unless you are an AT fanatic - like some of us here - it hardly matters what you know as long as they put on a good show. Why muddy your vision with grubby images of some whorehouse in Europe. It ain't relevant any more!

Did Len ever say that gauchos danced the tango?

I thought he said the dance portrayed the gauchos and women.

But that would also be wrong.

That's what I do, at the time. Unfortunately, Len appears to have a very particular idea of what the dance has to be like, and it tends to affect his marking.

Sometimes I'm surrpised that Rachel and Vincent "got away with" their outstanding AT last year.

Danced socially it looks more like this: he leads her out and she does some business while he checks her out, then she watches him closely while he moves his mojo and then it's her turn to impress him. And so on.

They don't both do intricate things at the same time because you can't unless you've rehearsed it and you are not dancing for public consumption - you are dancing because you might quite fancy them.

Perhaps they 'got away with it' because Len doesn't let it affect his marking? I think at the time he even said that it lacked drama (I agreed) but still gave it a 10, so it would appear that even if it isn't what he thinks it should, be you can still get full marks.

I think it's pretty clear that Len does let it affect his marking.

That doesn't mean he always does, but who ever claimed Len was consistent?

That time, his reasoning seemed to be: "I didn't say anything about Lisa's stumble, so I'm not going to really say about the fact that for me it could have done (with) a bit more drama".

As great and Vincent and Flavia are, wouldn't it be great for a couple to do a natural AT rather than the showdance AT V&F do? I just feel that they are so much more raw and authentic.