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What I find hypocritical when it comes to singing talent |
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#1 |
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What I find hypocritical when it comes to singing talent
Basically, it's that singers such as Cheryl Cole and Britney Spears get attacked over and over for apparently not being able to sing, yet this usually comes from supporters of rock/indie bands where the frontman is almost always tone deaf.
People can say "well they write their own songs"... yes but if those songs are crap and they sound crap when they shout along to them what does it matter who wrote it? Female singers get so much flack if they ever use autotune in their songs, or if they sing badly during a live rendition of a certain song, yet acts like the Arctic Monkeys and the Kaiser Chiefs can't sing on record let alone live and nothing is said of it. I think it's harder for a woman to have respect in the industry than it is for a man, more specifically rock bands who are "credible" by default. Even when the facts are that singers such as Britney and Mariah (she's not relevant to the singing talent section of this rant obviously lol) have written and composed hit songs before (For Britney see Everytime, which she wrote the melody, lyrics and piano to. For Mariah see basically the whole of her back catalogue). Anyway, rant over. |
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#2 |
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i wholeheartedly agree with your opinion.
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#3 |
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I don't think its necessarily hypocritical. I don't mind if someones singing badly as long as they're singing live. I'd rather hear bad live vocals than perfect mimed vocals. I don't really see the point of watching mimed performances, you might as well listen to the CD. I think it usually looks a bit silly too - i.e. on Cheryl's show tonight where she had CD quality vocals even when she was in the middle of a fast dance routine.
The only exception I'd make is Britney - I'm a huge fan so I don't mind if she mimes. Its kind of her trademark now anyway. And autotuning/who wrote the song doesn't bother me either way - but I think live vocals are pretty fundamental to any performance. I think Beyonce's a good example of how you can sing live, without compromising on the performance/dance aspect. |
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#4 |
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I don't think that's the case. First of all, what consists of a good voice is subjective, and some people don't like vocals like Britney's.
Also, I personally have found that the emotion in a song counts for lots. I would take an imperfect singer that felt for their song and were really into their performance over a perfectly polished singer who's performance was completely soulless. That's just me though. Don't know if it applies to anyone else. |
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#5 |
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another who clearly watches x factor too much and has sadly been fooled into believing that singing voice is a measure of how musically talented you are. that's right people - it's not about making good, innovative music, it's about how you sing other people's songs.
...ok maybe that's not entirely related to the point OP was making, but still
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#6 |
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I'd rather hear a bad singer singing a song as if it means something than a "good" singer warbling through a song to make money.
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#7 |
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^^^ kutox
Yeah, the industry is way too SONG heavy at the moment, needs to go INSTRUMENTAL for a while
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#8 |
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Quote:
I'd rather hear a bad singer singing a song as if it means something than a "good" singer warbling through a song to make money.
While someone like Mariah Carey may be 'technically' a very good singer, i'd rather listen to a 'technically' worse singer that has passion and really means every word of the song. The fact that you don't think that Arctic Monkeys can sing on record or live (though i doubt you've seen them live, and have probably only listened to one track off their album before dismissing it) shows that you really don't understand that singing isn't all about technical ability. |
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#9 |
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The thing is that these indie bands, who I think are shit by the way, sing the same on record as they do live. They have nothing to hide like some singers do.
People like Britney sound very different and often mime when performing live. They are almost always about the show. If I hear more vocodor songs I think I am going to implode. It's about authenticity and not just perfection in singing. Some of the best acts don't have perfect voices but they sound as good on record as they do live. By the way... live on TV or radio is completely different to being there live. |
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#10 |
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Quote:
I don't think that's the case. First of all, what consists of a good voice is subjective, and some people don't like vocals like Britney's.
Also, I personally have found that the emotion in a song counts for lots. I would take an imperfect singer that felt for their song and were really into their performance over a perfectly polished singer who's performance was completely soulless. That's just me though. Don't know if it applies to anyone else. that is what singing should be about, conveying an emotion (of any sort) through music. johnny rotten sex pistols, pil), lemmy[motorhead), noddy holder (slade), for example used their rawness to get across the point they were making, technically terrible maybe, but 100% apropriate. |
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#11 |
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Join Date: Apr 2006
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If a person's profession is singing, then that is what I expect - singing! I cannot ABIDE miming
As others have already said, it doesn't have to be technically perfect, but sung with some emotion and depth![]() Unfortunately, nowadays, the backing Band isn't live with the singers either, which doesn't help
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#12 |
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Quote:
Basically, it's that singers such as Cheryl Cole and Britney Spears get attacked over and over for apparently not being able to sing, yet this usually comes from supporters of rock/indie bands where the frontman is almost always tone deaf.
People can say "well they write their own songs"... yes but if those songs are crap and they sound crap when they shout along to them what does it matter who wrote it? Female singers get so much flack if they ever use autotune in their songs, or if they sing badly during a live rendition of a certain song, yet acts like the Arctic Monkeys and the Kaiser Chiefs can't sing on record let alone live and nothing is said of it. What I and seemingly many others can't get our heads around is how artists like Britney can be doing "live tours" when all they end up doing is moving their lips in time to a backing track. I'd rather go to see some "live" music that is just that, live. Even if the vocals are not always perfect it doesn't matter. I would also like to say that I actually think Cheryl Cole can sing live (impressed me on the X-Factor and the charity concert at the Albert Hall), not perfectly but as you can see that doesn't matter to me. I recognise there are singers of varying ability. The point is though, they all can sing. I'm not completely against auto-tune either. I actually like it when it's used openly and on purpose, like how Kanye West did on his album 808 and Heartbreaks. |
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#13 |
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Quote:
A lot of the front man of these bands can actually sing, they may not be note-perfect vocal gymnasts like Leona Lewis, but they are still singers. I happen to think that Alex Turner from the Arctic Monkeys has a great sound to his voice. Just listen to how he sings on the Last Shadow Puppets album (side project). Tom Meighan from Kasabian is another with a decent vocal if you ever took the time to listen. Even the lead singer of Biffy Clyro (Scottish rock band you may have heard of) has a great singing voice which does so much for their tracks.
What I and seemingly many others can't get our heads around is how artists like Britney can be doing "live tours" when all they end up doing is moving their lips in time to a backing track. I'd rather go to see some "live" music that is just that, live. Even if the vocals are not always perfect it doesn't matter. I would also like to say that I actually think Cheryl Cole can sing live (impressed me on the X-Factor and the charity concert at the Albert Hall), not perfectly but as you can see that doesn't matter to me. I recognise there are singers of varying ability. The point is though, they all can sing. I'm not completely against auto-tune either. I actually like it when it's used openly and on purpose, like how Kanye West did on his album 808 and Heartbreaks. |
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#14 |
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You want to hear a decent female singer? Try Shara Worden. Natasha Khan. Elizabeth Fraser.
Oh and for the record, a lot of today's 'indie' singers annoy the hell out of me, too. But only because they're giving the genre a bad name. OP, check out the likes of Delays, Mew and Shearwater (although a lot of these bands are probably above what is now known as 'indie'), and you'll see that not all alternative singers are like Alex Turner et al. Although, having said this, vocal ability still isn't everything. Shot as his voice may be, I'd still rather listen to Tom Waits over Britney Spears anyday (and this is coming from an experienced singer, too). |
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#15 |
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Quote:
I'd rather hear a bad singer singing a song as if it means something than a "good" singer warbling through a song to make money.
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#16 |
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While someone like Mariah Carey may be 'technically' a very good singer, i'd rather listen to a 'technically' worse singer that has passion and really means every word of the song.
Take the song called Outside which she wrote, or Vanishing which she also wrote, these songs are full of emotion and written specifically about events in her life (outside is about being bi-racial for example). When she sings it's passionate and she clearly means every word, but she doesn't get credit for anything other than having a very technically advanced vocal, which is always said along with a comment like "but it takes away all emotion from her songs" or something of that sort. It makes me wonder whether it's just so that the artist appears attainable, almost everyone could pull off a vocal like Alex Turner's, but very few could match what Mariah does, so it's harder to relate with. I'm not saying everyone has to love her style of singing or her voice, or anybodies style, but different artists are here for different reasons, different niches. You're not gonna see someone like Britney Spears playing a great guitar solo, and your not gonna see someone like Alex turner with a head mic on dancing his ass off. You don't go to see one artist for the same reasons you go to see the other, I don't see a problem with a little diversity. It just seems like women have to work harder than everyone for credibility in the industry. Look at how amazingly talented Beyonce is, and she does it all, yet she has to be so outstandingly amazing for her peers and others to respect her. Anyway I'm leaving this discussion lol, I keep writing essays. |
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#17 |
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Well, take Kurt Cobain or Kate Bush, not technically brilliant singers, but mean what they are/were singing and put a lot into creating something interesting.
Cheryl and Britney miming songs written by other people so they can walk around the stage? Where's the talent there, there's no artistry. Cheryl co-writes a few songs, but her album is so horribly repetetive- and Britney could sing and dance at the same time but now mimes so she can walk about. She can play the piano too, but they don't let her use that in her music, she has no input. Someone like Mariah Carey may not be my cup of tea but she at least writes most of her songs, people who just mime other people's I don't see the point of! I don't really like the Arctic Monkeys or whatever either, but not everyone has to be 'technically perfect' or you end up like that boring guy who's going to win the X factor tonight. I wouldn't say it's important to be a technically amazing singer, but it's important to do something a bit more interesting than sing 'Fight... Fight... Fight... Fight for this love!' 50 times with heavy use of autotune. Cheryl's album could be sung by anyone, and probably much much better than she does it. |
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#18 |
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Quote:
This is what I'm talking about. A singer like Mariah has written almost every song on every album, with the exception of a few covers and a few songs which were written for her.
Take the song called Outside which she wrote, or Vanishing which she also wrote, these songs are full of emotion and written specifically about events in her life (outside is about being bi-racial for example). When she sings it's passionate and she clearly means every word, but she doesn't get credit for anything other than having a very technically advanced vocal, which is always said along with a comment like "but it takes away all emotion from her songs" or something of that sort. It makes me wonder whether it's just so that the artist appears attainable, almost everyone could pull off a vocal like Alex Turner's, but very few could match what Mariah does, so it's harder to relate with. I'm not saying everyone has to love her style of singing or her voice, or anybodies style, but different artists are here for different reasons, different niches. You're not gonna see someone like Britney Spears playing a great guitar solo, and your not gonna see someone like Alex turner with a head mic on dancing his ass off. You don't go to see one artist for the same reasons you go to see the other, I don't see a problem with a little diversity. It just seems like women have to work harder than everyone for credibility in the industry. Look at how amazingly talented Beyonce is, and she does it all, yet she has to be so outstandingly amazing for her peers and others to respect her. Anyway I'm leaving this discussion lol, I keep writing essays. ![]() I agree. I think the fact that Mariah is known for her vocal capabilities will always lead to people saying she doesn't sing with emotion. Obviously, "feeling" emotion when you hear a singer is a very personal thing, but I personally feel alot of emotion from Mariah when she sings Vanishing and Outside. It's annoying that if someone who is not a technical singer, sang those two exact same songs, it would be hailed as great, because "although they aren't a great singer, they show alot of emotion" , eventhough it's the exact same song. I'm not saying that everyone should feel the emotion when Mariah sings, but I am saying that JUST because she is known for doing vocal gymnastics and belting high notes, it doesn't automatically mean she doesn't sing with emotion. With Leona, just because she made Snow Patrol's 'Run' a vocal showcase, I still feel the emotion from her when she sings the lyric. Just because she belts Eb5s, and hits a C6 note for example, it doesn't mean she's singing coldly, even if she didn't write the song. Wether or not you actually feel emotion from her is a personal response of course, but it's annoying when people automatically say "oh great, here's Leona again showing of her voice. I bet she doesn't even know what the lyrics are about" :sleep::yawn: |
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#19 |
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johnny rotten sex pistols, pil), lemmy[motorhead), noddy holder (slade), for example used their rawness to get across the point they were making, technically terrible maybe, but 100% apropriate.
Leave Sir Noddy of Holder out of that list. Holder can sing, there is a difference between a raucous voice and a bad voice. Holder was John Lennon's favourite rock and roll singer of the 70's, btw.
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As others have already said, it doesn't have to be technically perfect, but sung with some emotion and depth
Obviously, "feeling" emotion when you hear a singer is a very personal thing, but I personally feel alot of emotion from Mariah when she sings Vanishing and Outside. It's annoying that if someone who is not a technical singer, sang those two exact same songs, it would be hailed as great, because "although they aren't a great singer, they show alot of emotion"
, eventhough it's the exact same song.