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It was a problem for Ali.
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Bonnie96
13-12-2009
It's always puzzled me why an actress would have problems portraying aggression, passion, sultry(ness) (?) and any other emotion needed for the Latin dances and the Tangos.

I can see where it goes wrong for her technically - her movements have none of the sharpness, the staccato necessary - she's too soft and flowing, although that is beautiful in itself and perfect for the more romantic Ballroom dances.

I think visually, she has an uphill climb being so fair both in skin tone and hair.

I'm well aware that is rather shallow reasoning and probably contentious but it occurred to me that if she had had eg Laila or Natalie's hair colouring etc, that would have created a more dramatic impact when she first took to the floor for the AT and set the scene better. I remember also having that impression with the Tango last week and the Paso.

Have other blonde or fair haired celebs been successful at portraying the character for the more passionate dances?
alexgr
13-12-2009
Very true, I can't think of one fair haired celebrity who has completely sold an AT, it's just not the right look for the dance - Mark looked perfect for the AT. The last fair haired celebs to do the AT were Emma and Matt in series 4.
tabithakitten
13-12-2009
Not the Argentine tango, but Zoe Ball did a pretty good job with the ballroom tango in series 3.

You do have a point though. It must be a lot easier for those who naturally look the part expected from the dance to live up to the role.
black_vine
13-12-2009
Well the fair haired pros do it well: ie. Natalie Lowe, Camilla Dallerup. Both very fair but convincing.

Quote:
“It's always puzzled me why an actress would have problems portraying aggression, passion, sultry(ness) (?) and any other emotion needed for the Latin dances and the Tangos.”

I liked Ali and I could tell she was trying to get a character finally with her Argentine Tango. I don't think it was her finest hour but I'm glad she tried.
Her Latins ofen lacked character and portrayal of emotion and I increasingly felt like she had no excuse, really because a)she's an actress who has played such roles b)Brian specialises in Latin c)Her and Brian have a romantic relationship so they have a store of real emotion to use
soulmate61
13-12-2009
Originally Posted by Bonnie96:
“It's always puzzled me why an actress would have problems portraying aggression, passion, sultry(ness) (?) and any other emotion needed for the Latin dances and the Tangos.

I can see where it goes wrong for her technically - her movements have none of the sharpness, the staccato necessary - she's too soft and flowing, although that is beautiful in itself and perfect for the more romantic Ballroom dances.

I think visually, she has an uphill climb being so fair both in skin tone and hair.

I'm well aware that is rather shallow reasoning and probably contentious but it occurred to me that if she had had eg Laila or Natalie's hair colouring etc, that would have created a more dramatic impact when she first took to the floor for the AT and set the scene better. I remember also having that impression with the Tango last week and the Paso.

Have other blonde or fair haired celebs been successful at portraying the character for the more passionate dances?”

Ali speaks with a soft voice and avoids conflict, appearing to be generous and diplomatic, good-humoured even when in physical pain, seeking harmony and approval more than dominance and confrontation.

I would not say that a fair-haired girl would always be typecast, and typecasting herself, as a fairytale princess.
Is not the acid-tongued Joan Rivers blonde? As for blonde Madonna, no chance of her instinctively seeking soft shapes with no cutting edges. But for me much rather have Ali.
Bonnie96
13-12-2009
Originally Posted by soulmate61:
“Ali speaks with a soft voice and avoids conflict, appearing to be generous and diplomatic, good-humoured even when in physical pain, seeking harmony and approval more than dominance and confrontation.

I would not say that a fair-haired girl would always be typecast, and typecasting herself, as a fairytale princess.
Is not the acid-tongued Joan Rivers blonde? As for blonde Madonna, no chance of her instinctively seeking soft shapes with no cutting edges. But for me much rather have Ali.”

I'm not talking of the real Ali but a character she needed to portray.
Madonna is a prime example of one who sets the mood first by costume, hair etc and then acts out each new re-invention of herself.
Joan Rivers she'd have scared the Gauchos back to the Pampas! (Bet she's no real blonde either )
thenetworkbabe
13-12-2009
Originally Posted by black_vine:
“Well the fair haired pros do it well: ie. Natalie Lowe, Camilla Dallerup. Both very fair but convincing.



I liked Ali and I could tell she was trying to get a character finally with her Argentine Tango. I don't think it was her finest hour but I'm glad she tried.
Her Latins ofen lacked character and portrayal of emotion and I increasingly felt like she had no excuse, really because a)she's an actress who has played such roles b)Brian specialises in Latin c)Her and Brian have a romantic relationship so they have a store of real emotion to use”

She's spent 3 months not allowing a relationship with Brian out in the open so turning it on would be contradictory. She's also suffered from having music which more often than not has led to balletic and beautiful rather than forceful choregraphy. Thats the fault of whoever has picked it and rationed out the more expected, suitable or crowd pleasing tunes. She's also had choregraphy that has emphasisd difficulty or nice lines rather than making things look dramatic. As it is, I am not certain at all what she could do if you gave her Alesha or Rachel's tunes and choregraphy and told her to get on with that or even if she had a go at one of Mark or Tom's routines as the female.
FunkyFoxtrot
13-12-2009
Originally Posted by Bonnie96:
“It's always puzzled me why an actress would have problems portraying aggression, passion, sultry(ness) (?) and any other emotion needed for the Latin dances and the Tangos.

I can see where it goes wrong for her technically - her movements have none of the sharpness, the staccato necessary - she's too soft and flowing, although that is beautiful in itself and perfect for the more romantic Ballroom dances.

I think visually, she has an uphill climb being so fair both in skin tone and hair.

I'm well aware that is rather shallow reasoning and probably contentious but it occurred to me that if she had had eg Laila or Natalie's hair colouring etc, that would have created a more dramatic impact when she first took to the floor for the AT and set the scene better. I remember also having that impression with the Tango last week and the Paso.

Have other blonde or fair haired celebs been successful at portraying the character for the more passionate dances?”

The answer to your final point...YES...Zoe Ball.
soulmate61
13-12-2009
Originally Posted by Bonnie96:
“I'm not talking of the real Ali but a character she needed to portray.

Madonna is a prime example of one who sets the mood first by costume, hair etc and then acts out each new re-invention of herself.

Joan Rivers she'd have scared the Gauchos back to the Pampas! (Bet she's no real blonde either )”

A fair point well made. But I believe it to be as impossible for Ali to portray Madona as for Madonna to portray Ali despite both being actresses and blondes to boot. Neither would even try.

When last heard Joan Rivers volunteered to dance a slow foxtrot in Ali style. Her partner danced his fastest ever quickstep.
Vientre
13-12-2009
A good actress can portray different characters a poor one cant, how good an actress is Ali?
Miriyo
13-12-2009
Originally Posted by Vientre:
“A good actress can portray different characters a poor one cant, how good an actress is Ali?”

Yes that's what I was wondering.
mia75
13-12-2009
She always looked absolutely terrified of Brian to me.
His loss of temper, that was shown on ITT, may have had something to do with that.
black_vine
13-12-2009
Originally Posted by thenetworkbabe:
“She's spent 3 months not allowing a relationship with Brian out in the open so turning it on would be contradictory. She's also suffered from having music which more often than not has led to balletic and beautiful rather than forceful choregraphy. Thats the fault of whoever has picked it and rationed out the more expected, suitable or crowd pleasing tunes. She's also had choregraphy that has emphasisd difficulty or nice lines rather than making things look dramatic. As it is, I am not certain at all what she could do if you gave her Alesha or Rachel's tunes and choregraphy and told her to get on with that or even if she had a go at one of Mark or Tom's routines as the female.”

Furthermore it wasn't a problem when they kissed in the AS. She plays a good romantic in the rest of her ballroom.

I don't think the music was to blame either. The song was a great choice for an AT - did you see Bruno on Friday's ITT? He loved it, he could 'feel the heat'. I think Rachel had a harder job with When Doves Cry, Ali's "Pa Bailar" sounded a lot more traditional and I'm sure Ricky & Nat/Rachel & Vincent/Zoe & James would hae done wonders with it. Like I've said on this forum, I'm glad she gave it a go (with a character)
smude
13-12-2009
I think she was struggling last night with her ankle and that affected her nerves. She danced in very low heels. I thought the kiss was relief at getting through.
Evilredzebra
13-12-2009
Ali and Brian were my favourites but let's face it, Hollyoaks isn't exactly the training ground for the Judi Denchs and Laurence Oliviers of the future!
mia75
13-12-2009
Originally Posted by Evilredzebra:
“Ali and Brian were my favourites but let's face it, Hollyoaks isn't exactly the training ground for the Judi Denchs and Laurence Oliviers of the future!”

Ricky manages it.
Camino
13-12-2009
Originally Posted by Vientre:
“A good actress can portray different characters a poor one cant, how good an actress is Ali?”

ive never seen Ali acting in anything but if she cant get in character for some of the dances it leads me to belive shes not a particularly good actress
missfrankiecat
13-12-2009
Originally Posted by Camino:
“ive never seen Ali acting in anything but if she cant get in character for some of the dances it leads me to belive shes not a particularly good actress”

Let's face facts people. If she was a 'good' actress she wouldn't be doing SCD.
clayton_st
13-12-2009
Lets face it, the show is fixed.
Ali only got FIVE TENS for one of her dances and so she can't be as good as mug puller Hollins.
Veri
13-12-2009
Originally Posted by Bonnie96:
“It's always puzzled me why an actress would have problems portraying aggression, passion, sultry(ness) (?) and any other emotion needed for the Latin dances and the Tangos.

I can see where it goes wrong for her technically - her movements have none of the sharpness, the staccato necessary - she's too soft and flowing, although that is beautiful in itself and perfect for the more romantic Ballroom dances.

I think visually, she has an uphill climb being so fair both in skin tone and hair.

I'm well aware that is rather shallow reasoning and probably contentious but it occurred to me that if she had had eg Laila or Natalie's hair colouring etc, that would have created a more dramatic impact when she first took to the floor for the AT and set the scene better. I remember also having that impression with the Tango last week and the Paso.

Have other blonde or fair haired celebs been successful at portraying the character for the more passionate dances?”

What's happened to the idea that some Latin dances are fun, party dances, rather than aggressive, passionate, sultry, etc?

In any case, the "acting" that seems to be demanded in SCD is exaggerated, theatrical, ham acting, rather than the sort Ali's been doing on tv.

Originally Posted by Evilredzebra:
“Ali and Brian were my favourites but let's face it, Hollyoaks isn't exactly the training ground for the Judi Denchs and Laurence Oliviers of the future!”

Look at how bad Lynda Bellinghgam was.

And she'd even done a lot of theatre acting.
Hun1
13-12-2009
I don't personally think it has to do with her fair complexion at all. The fair pros sell it well. I felt Ali's problem in the AT was her nerves. She looked wobbly and whilst her face was trying to portray a sassy character, the nervous look broke through many times. Nervous energy can be a blessing and or curse, some people can take it and use it to their advantage and to spur themselves on with it. For others, the adrenaline cursing throughout their body causes the physical side effect of shaking.

Also, Ali doesn't seem comfortable with public displays of 'sex'. She seemed incredibly self conscious at times, for a brief moment there would be a spark of it, which was then crippled with self recognition of something she is not comfortable displaying publicly. There's this flipping obsession with selling sex appeal on Strictly lol! For me, the AT is more about the build up and interplay of an uninhibited courtship that is, shall we say, less romantically focused. It's not about sex appeal – there is a huge difference.

I just think Ali found it increasingly difficult to get pass her nerves.
Veri
13-12-2009
Originally Posted by black_vine:
“Furthermore it wasn't a problem when they kissed in the AS. She plays a good romantic in the rest of her ballroom.

I don't think the music was to blame either. The song was a great choice for an AT - did you see Bruno on Friday's ITT? He loved it, he could 'feel the heat'. ”

I didn't find their positive comments on the music at all convincing. Compare to how they were about Ricky's AT music, where their enthusiasm seemed far more genuine.

Quote:
“I think Rachel had a harder job with When Doves Cry, Ali's "Pa Bailar" sounded a lot more traditional and I'm sure Ricky & Nat/Rachel & Vincent/Zoe & James would hae done wonders with it. Like I've said on this forum, I'm glad she gave it a go (with a character)”

Zoe and James?
Ignazio
13-12-2009
Originally Posted by Bonnie96:
“
Have other blonde or fair haired celebs been successful at portraying the character for the more passionate dances?”

For the most part I agree with you, I think colouring does add drama to many latin dances - and of this years celebs I would add Jade as a perfect example of the flashing eyed seductress; but it isn't impossible for a blonde to take on the latin persona - Zoe Ball was excellent at acting out the arrogance required for the more passionate dances.
Ignazio
13-12-2009
Originally Posted by mia75:
“Ricky manages it.”

He's a natural in the ballroom - but I don't think he'll be writing an Oscar acceptance speech any time soon.
napoleonsolo
13-12-2009
perhaps 'dancing with the stars' has more money to spend, but their extensive hair and make-up dept frequently turn the celebrities & partners out in dance-appropriate wigs/hair pieces. i'm thinking of kelly osbourne's ever changing hair colour/style - perhaps you think this would have helped ali? personally, i just think she was a bit of a drip considering she is supposed to an actor by profession!
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