5pm X Factor: The Winners Story?

You mean the filler that gets made for ITV2 and gets repeated a dozen times, you'd put that as the 5pm show on Christmas Day ITV1?

News at Ten at 10pm? Even the BBC shove news almost to Midnight at Christmas as it's not important

You've also got Coronation Street in an afternoon slot getting lower ratings than it did in a prime time slot!

News at Ten must air at 10pm every single day, Christmas or no Christmas!!!

It was supposedly a bad audience for Strictly as well.

That isn't the business ITV is in though. ITV's business is advertising - and frankly Christmas Day is the last day viewers are thinking about spending cash. The rest of your schedule has been sufficiently torn to pieces by previous posters.


There will always be such a special on BBC1 to compete against though, and like it or not, the BBC usually come out on top. They'll be another Royle Family special next year, and it's no secret that Gavin and Stacey will return for specials in the not too distant future.


So true on both accounts.


Watched the Dancing on Ice Tour tonight on ITV3. Why on earth do ITV hide it away (it did air on ITV1 during the autumn in an early afternoon slot) when it's a cheap filler which could get a few million - indeed even on Christmas Day - if given a primetime slot, and the perfect build up to the new series too - without even commissioning a separate Christmas edition.

The thing is there's no real track record of Ant & Dec's own shows getting over 8m viewers. Their recent series of Takeaway have rated around 6-7m, though I think in the last series an episode or two fell below 6m. So 6.8m for last night was pretty good.

In the past, Victoria Wood's had 8m+. Strictly Come Dancing Christmas specials have rated over 7m in the last 3 years. So I can understand why people said that VW and SCD's ratings were bad (compared to their own high standards).

It makes me wonder for this particular reason why ITV 'hide' The Xtra Factor: Best and Worst on ITV2. As proven by Christmas Day's multichannel figures, 300,000 chose to, over 4 hours on Christmas Day to watch Xtra Factor. I'd hazard a bet that the figures were probably just shy of ITV1's figures.

Why don't ITV "strip" these on the days leading up to Christmas @ 5pm where it'd be capable of 4/5m, with The Winner's Story then on the 23rd December.

Predictions for tonight:

BBC One
18:00 - BBC News: 4.4m (23%)
18:30 - Comic Relief: The Net Result: 3.8m (18%)
19:30 - Celebrity Mastermind: 5.9m (25%)
20:00 - Casualty: 6.6m (28%)
21:00 - Cranford: 6.5m (29%)
22:30 - Outnumbered: 4m (21%)

BBC Two
18:45 - James May's Toy Stories: 3.8m (17%)
19:45 - Top Gear Special: 5m (21%)
21:00 - Steve Coogan: The Inside Story: 2.8m (13%)
22:00 - Knowing Me, Knowing Yule... with Alan Partridge: 3.2m (15%)

ITV1
17:30 - Harry Hill's TV Burp Review of The Year: 4.2m (24%)
18:00 - Dancing on Ice: The Story of Bolero with Torvill and Dean: 4.8m (24%)
19:00 - Midsomer Murders: 3.3m (14%)
21:00 - FILM: The Holiday: 3.1m (15%)

Channel 4
19:00 - Tsunami: 2.1m (9%)
21:00 - The Greatest TV Shows of The Noughties: 2.9m (13%)

ITV1 to win 'evening time', with BBC One winning from 19:00 onwards. The Torvill and Dean Story will do well, IIRC earlier this year it had ~7/8m unexpectedly on a Saturday night.

Apart from that and the TV Burp repeat (which should do better than yesterday), I think ITV will have a stinker from 9pm onwards, really.

BBC Two should have a good night as has been the story for the past week and a bit.

Not so sure about Best and Worst, but I'd definately give The Winners Story an outing over Christmas. Would have been good to see one for Britain's Got Talent too tracking Diversity - but it's all bloody Susan Boyle, even though ITV's viewers preferred Diversity.

The X Factor: Best and Worst I'd then save to give an ITV1 airing in the summer in the weeks leading up to the new series.

ITV really have no reason to care about Christmas day, everything they do underperforms. I'd probably weaken it a bit further by removing the soaps from Christmas next year and replacing them with Ant & Dec and then some kind of music show (An Audience With... or Celebrating...) centred on an act with wide appeal. Viewers clearly aren't showing up for Corrie or Emmerdale on Christmas Day and I struggle to see why they persist.

There won't be any kind of BGT or XF special. World Idol was a disaster even before the ratings because it was fairly obvious that most of the judges didn't want to be there (particularly Pete and Simon) and neither did most of the contestants. From the Wikipedia link that Robbie linked to, it says Cowell disliked the idea of turning Idol winners into losers which pretty much rules out any sort of champion of champions show like Strictly does.

The most I could see is maybe running the Winners Story mid afternoon but I doubt it would be strong enough for the evening schedule. Probably better to let ITV2 get some good numbers out of that instead.

ITV won Christmas in 2004, and that wasn't too long ago.

I genuinely believe that if ITV air the right programmes, they will get success.

And it's not as if ITV will make much of a loss on it, and will be for their long term gain. By putting family shows on at a time of year where all the family is in, families are bound to stay at ITV for the next year.

And it's a good place to start airing some new family drama pilots, as well, as long as it's against weak competition.

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I hate to say it, but I think quite a lot of the ITV2 shows, such as 'The Winner's Story', should be promoted to ITV1. I wouldn't say it if ITV1 didn't need it.

I'm a Celebrity: Coming Out airs on ITV1 to very good figures, so who's to say The Winner's Story won't.

I also believe, the week before The X Factor returns for a new series, ITV should air a week long set of programmes about the last series, along the lines of 'Best & Worst'. But I think they should rename it.

It would be a nice little countdown:-
9:00pm The Ex Factor

That might be a nice name, split from Sunday to Friday in the 9pm slots. OK, it's overkill, but it's only for one week. Commerically, ITV will wholly benefit from it, likely to appeal to over 5-6 million a night.

And maybe that revenue profit could be used to prove ITV with the Christmas TV their viewers deserve.

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The World Idol project is something that could definitely be re-introduced. The problem is, noone wants to watch a serious competition on Christmas Day, of course not. It wasn't planned very well, and wasn't produced very well.

I think the next stage for Cowell and the next stage for ITV is a summer contest, similar to a longer panned out version of Eurovision.

How about holding it every 5 years? They could call it '5 Years Time' or keep with 'World Idol'. It could be the winners of X Factor/Idol formats around the world, in a world public voted thing.

Because Britain will be involved, and as long as it gets off the ground, it could see interest in the Cowell shows sustain and grow like never before. Although it's the summer, 3 weeks of live shows constantly at 9pm from Monday to Friday (with a catch-up at the weekend) could attract over 7 million viewers consistently.

And it'll be kept fresh by the fact it'll be coming back every 5, or even every 10 years.

They did?

ITV didn't quite win Christmas Day in 2004, it was a tie in the Top 10:

Had the BBC not spent 2 and a half hours on a peak time film, they'd have probably won the day. Apart from the top 3, that was a poor rated Christmas! It's harder for ITV now compared to then though, as they're also up against Doctor Who, Strictly and The Royle Family/big sitcom.

Around 10 million viewers being achieved for some shows over the Christmas weekend is excellent. Well done BBC.

BBC and ITV ought be constantly pulling out the big guns for Christmas week - with 30 million potential viewers available (are the other 20 million adults socialising with the TV off?) that leaves a lot of viewers left to pick up for the other channel.

I didn't watch myself due to numerous family members visiting - watched Harry Hill, Eastenders & some Corrie - also Ant & Dec were better than they normally are - will use bbc iplayer to catch up on some shows that were missed.

Some of the ITV offerings were chronic and more Five standard than ITV1

But, arguably, ITV have more bigger hits than BBC1, and have the best serial comedy series, and best serial clip show series.

ITV could win slots on Christmas Day with:-
- Coronation Street (if in the afternoon)
- Emmerdale (if in the afternoon)
- Harry Hill's Christmas Crackers [TV Burp review show]
- Doc Martin [maybe not capable of 9 million, but with a big storyline, could definitely be near that figure]
- Benidorm [with the right promotion, Benidorm could really win big in a post-News slot]
- Dancing on Ice [It suits Christmas very well, and it's a nice lead-up to the series in January - I think there should be a showcase of professional performances as well].
- Britain's Got Talent/The X Factor: The Winner's Story
- Films [ITV have proven this Christmas that the festive season is definitely the time to air family films, judging by the success of Santa Clause, Polar Express and Happy Feet. And they aren't even great films. Harry Potter would have brought even more success].
- Ant & Dec [as shown on Boxing Day, the pair are the best comedy team ITV have got. Give 'em the right platform, and they could have a returning comedy show]
- The Muppets Show/You've Been Framed/Creature Comforts could all claim a sneaky slot win.

[I actually think Britain's Got Talent is more family orientated, so the BGT Winner's Story could air on Xmas Day, with The X Factor Winner's Story airing a week before it airs again the next year].

When we talk of Christmas, I think we all have a tendency to overplay the BBC One dominance thing a little. What has happened, in fact, is just that the BBC had a couple of really good Christmasses in 2007 and 2008 that bucked the overall trend.

2009 wasn't as good as the two preceeding years, but it holds up alright looking back further than that.

I agree with both. Everyone has different tastes, and I think ITV, the BBC, Channel 4 and Five should work together to create alternatives to each other in order to maximise viewing. Give everyone something to watch, because Christmas can be hell otherwise. It's the one time of year everyone watches TV.

ITV need to understand that competing at Christmas is important for their overall strategy. I'd like to see all the big guns from all the channels unleashed, and some surprise new pilots as well. The Christmas period needs to keep getting better; we need more and more family entertainment. And on Channel 4, some proper adult alternative shows, like the 100 Greatest and Big Fat Quiz of the Year. These are programmes that really do well.

I'll give you that but it would leave prime time bare

No it wouldn't, it lost its slot both the last time it was on Christmas Day and also yesterday it got lower than usual figures

What exactly is a big storyline in a drama series?

There is no 'post-news' slot on Christmas Day. It could do well but there may not even be another series at all never mind a special

Underperformed and lost its slot last time

Only 1-2m of die-hard fans really care what the winner gets up to next. See the Xmas number 1 backlash and also the 'ITV only show Simon Cowell rubbish' backlash

Depends what you mean by success, whatever films ITV show will get lower than BBC1's. Even if the channels swapped their film rights at the last minute, the ratings wouldn't follow

Would it really be be must-watch against the BBC's big hitters though?

The first one ??, the second one is lazy, the third one would be a repeat

On paper your schedule may look acceptable, add in DFS adverts every 15 minutes, people getting murdered in EastEnders, the power of BBC1's promotions and you've got a loss on your hands and a weaker schedule on the other days when you find out you've used all your big hitters on a day when nobody watched.

What about Christmas with the Loose Ladies?

6 million or so it would get i think.

are you being serious?

Yes, I've never been more sure in my life. Sherrie Hewson will no doubt lighten up the mood on Christmas Day.

Lets all be a bit realistic about ITVs schedule.

Looking at recent reports, its been suggested that on an average day, ITV will make approximately £3 million pound in prime time (this seemed to be the figure when people were talking about the loss ITV made on footy). However, you would have to factor in to this that there will not be so many companies wanting to advertise, and that it is generally assumed that the BBC will win, so again alot of companies will probably want a discount on there adverts. Add to this that they could probably increase primetime rates to about 5pm/6pm, and I think ITV will struggle to take £2m on christmas day.

Look at the BBCs schedules (rough guess at costs)

Dr Who (reported at approx £1m per episode)
SCD (Probably quite cheap as its a quick episode fitted in to normal shooting, and an inhouse production, so say £300,000/£350,000)
Eastenders (reports seem to suggest roughly £550k/£600k per hour)
Royle Family (Sit coms are known to be expensive, and again made by an independent so probably about £700k/£800k for the hour)
Gavin & Stacey (probably about £350k/£400k per episode)
Catherine Tate (sketch show so probably approx £250k).

Thats without the cost of the Gruffalo, The Incredibles etc which are not cheap.

ITV could not afford to make that kind of loss on a night! ITVs schedule probably makes a loss on christmas day as it is!. Looking at cost versus audience hour specials of there soaps is the best solution for them.

Emmerdale (say £500k/£600k per hour)
Cory (say £500k/£600k per hour)
Mr & Mrs (Probably £250k per episode)
Poirot (probably £1m/1.25)

Now lets be honest, if you an ITV scheduler and you have an episode of your highest rated Drama (Doc Martin) or highest rated comedy (Benidorm), and you are in an advertising downturn, are you gonna place that episode in November where you can get all the bg companies wanting to advertise there christmas goods, or are you going to put it on christmas day, where youll probably have to reduce you advertising rates just to fill all the available slots?

Even when ITV won christmas day, it was by soap specials, who wants to be a millionaire (which is a cheap programme to make), and a drama.

The only reason they still even put a drama like Poirot on is probably because it skews to an older demographic that the advertisers are not keen on, and what ITV seem to be wanting to get away from on there new sunday schedules, while at the same time they can look like they are trying on christmas day!.


BBC can spend say £5 million on christmas day, as it doesnt have to worry about a return, its more worried about it being at its best on the big occasions. On these occasions they could put on ITVs schedule and they would get probably 1million more viewers, as it is in peoples minds to watch the BBC on the big days

I probably watch the BBC alot more than ITV, but even I have to admit (whether you liked them or not) BBC had a full christmas period of programmes and specials, but the cost of this was an october and early november that at time looked a bit bare!. ITV cant do this as those are there peak periods!

Rubbish - Christmas Day has little influence over our TV habits for the year, and as has been said numerous times in this thread, the 25th of December is not ITV's Christmas.


It obviously isn't at all as otherwise they really would compete. Christmas Day is really about damage limitation for ITV.

I was thinking really how pushing a week of movies might be an idea, either in the 9pm slot from Christmas to New Year (rather than original commissions, and taking advantage of no requirements for the news to be fixed at 10pm), or early evening (around 6pm) if they went for the family angle (with soaps pushed back to 8pm).

OK, it is lazy perhaps, but with the right promotion so they sell ITV as the home of Christmas movies, it could be an easy way to position ITV1 against BBC1 over the period.

[quote=PJMillar;37514339]And on Channel 4, some proper adult alternative shows, like the 100 Greatest and Big Fat Quiz of the Year. These are programmes that really do well.[quote=PJMillar;37514339]
They wouldn't on Christmas Day though as these such shows generally pull in the viewers when the alternatives are not that great, and hence are scheduled in less high profile slots. As an aside though I think C4 could do a lot worse than bring back the 100 Greatest... strand.

A strong Christmas day as expected from BBC1 - though Doctor Who and EastEnders were a bit lower than I thought they'd be. From 8pm, ITV1 simply gave up for the evening and though they have to go for the cheap option, surely they could have done better than All Star Mr. and Mrs.?

ITV1 bounced back on Boxing Day though Pirates of the Carribbean did well for BBC1. I'm glad The All Star Impression Show flopped - at least that won't encourage them to make a series out of it.

By the way, a ridiculous piece of scheduling from the ISI next Saturday - why on Earth are they following FA Cup football with a dating show? Surely they appeal to two different audiences? Why not (as others have suggested) hold the programme back until it can have a TV Burp lead in at the very least?

28.12.09

BBC ONE
Celeb Mastermind 3.9m / 16.6%
Casualty 4.5m / 18.2%
Cranford 5.4m / 24.3%
Outnumbered 4.8m / 24.5%

BBC TWO
James May 3m / 13.6%
Top Gear 6.4m peaked 7.2m / 25.9%
Steve Coogan 1.5m / 6.5%

ITV1
Midsomer Murders 4.5m / 19.2%
The Holiday 3.6m / 17.6%

Five
Heads or Tails 0.6m / 2.8%

Thanks dubsj.

In all fairness, with the exception of Outnumbered, BBC One underperformed. Casualty I would have thought would be over 5m with Cranford over 6m. As for Outnumbered, the BBC are probably now regretting not giving it a higher profile slot!

Good night for BBC Two, Top Gear back over 6m and should put a stop to 'axe, axe, axe'! Also good night for ITV1 considering their uninspiring line-up. Struggling to believe a Midsomer repeat beat Casualty! (OK, on the virtue of percentage shares, but still) dubsj, do you have the following ratings:

- TV Burp (5:30, ITV1)
- Dancing on Ice, Torvill and Dean (6:00, ITV1)
- Comic Relief (6:30, BBC1)

Burp 2.2m / 11.1%
DOI: 2.8m / 13.5%
Comic Relief 3.2m / 15.1%