I can't wait for you to produce a quote for this one. Because for the life of me, I can't remember him saying "both shows will average 20 million".


But this argument doesn't stand up to scrutiny. You say 15.6m people watched the X Factor final. But that 15.6m doesn't mean 15.6m people tuned in at 7.30pm and watched straight through to 9.30pm. It's just an average. It doesn't relate to actually "watching The X Factor final" start to finish as you seem to demand. In truth, the maximum number that watched the whole thing was about 12m. Most likely a bit less.

Hence why we qualify those statements as "an average audience of...".

We're talking about press reporting. To people who don't read about ratings and don't really care. So the biggest number possible is best.




If ITV wanted to get an official audience close to that magnitude, like BGT managed, they should have kept the show to a reasonable length and not moved it to run opposite another traditional event of the year.[/quote]


Robbie, can I ask one question...

Have you ever heard of a little show called American Idol?


I must admit, I've never got the whole Christmas TV thing. It's just left off all day for us. Even the womenfolk aren't allowed to watch the soaps for one day of the year!

Is it a very British phenomenon or do other parts of the world have big Christmas day viewing?

It's like a drug. I keep trying to come off it but can't help myself, I keep coming back.

I think Christmas Day tv is far bigger in the UK as you have the BBC a non-commercial corporation unlike every other tv company in the world. Thus they can afford to put all their top shows on that day, this then makes ITV and co make more of en effort to avoid embarrasment.

I'm so tired of the accusations of bias now I am just ignoring them. Best way round it.

I like the banter and debate, and like Robbie defends the BBC I will defend ITV with similar levels of gusto, even if it makes other people squeal bias.

I'm honestly not bothered, either way and will - and have - praised the BBC where it's due. And I will undoubtedly do so when it is recording bumper ratings for its stronger Christmas schedules. People will ignore that though and continue to flag up praise for ITV1 as justification for their accusations.

When people try and put a negative spin on 15.5 million viewers and a 19.8 million peak bias is, however, blatantly obvious - and indeed it's the people who complain so much of bias that show so much of it themselves.

It's all in the name of fun anyway

People attacking SCD must be deluded.
- It's the most popular format in the world sold to more countries than the Idol format.
-It's basically got the same figures as last year but did not grow.
- It targets an audience that no other channel targets, and it has a strong cult following
- It's format has been on ABC twice a year, every year
- It was SCD that revitalised Sundays as a results and high ratings say last year

The X Factor has done unbelievably, exceptionally well and ITV should truly be congrats to that. The X Factor could subsidise new programs just as it does for Channel 4 with BB.

I have a couple of question abouts BARB ratings - I understand that the number of people actually viewing is an estimate based on a sample of households. The accuracy of readings is determined by the people chosen eg. when someone leaves the room or enters the room -


What if someone is using a laptop or reading a newspaper at the same time - are they still watching tv or half-watching? Just found this answer myself - A panel member (or guest) is defined to be viewing when they are present in a room with a television set switched on.

With Xmas approaching an people have guests or family visiting do they have to estimate how many are actually watching tv or do they have their sample size capped as the same as the number of people in the household? - Now I am thinking there is no limit eg 20 people arrive for xmas dinner and queens speech is on the tv - so all 20 are counted as the sample figure.

Emma Bunton has been revealed as the new Dancing on Ice judge.

Her expertise come from the fact she competed in Strictly Come Dancing.

Alesha Dixon anyone?

Yeh because Doctor Who and EastEnders are renowned for targetting an older audience aren't they. I think it just goes to show on the only day of the year where families get together and watch TV they choose BBC1. Still the nations no.1.

In what way does that make it any less impressive?

"25m saw Joe win X Factor" says Daily Star's front page.

Well they can't count.

This is like watching all the blood vessels go pop in Robbies forehead simultaneously Utterly hilarious & totally deluded. Wonderful stuff indeed.

By the way Fincham was talking to advertisers about audience delivery. Unless the BBC is now officially selling time (as opposed to soft plugging ) then I'm not sure how locking granny up with the kids, closing the shops for the day and engaging in a day of forced joviality is relevant?

It is the one to watch at Christmas. And I think it always should be.

The BBC have an immense amount to be proud of. BBC Two and Four have, this year, crafted some brilliant documentaries. And the latter especially has received credit and good audience figures for it.

The BBC is such a diverse organisation, and just look at their website and it speaks for itself.

The one thing they don't do, and even if they wanted to, haven't really got the experience of doing is: creating hype.

ITV have been working in a commerical field all its life, and has evolved and always looks at the consumer first. The BBC make intriguing programmes, and you can't second guess the moves it makes.

Though, BBC One is starting to become quasi-commercial. Its programmes stink of typical commerical cheapness. The great thing about X Factor and Britain's Got Talent is: money is spent on it and the production values are superb, and BBC One can't match it.

BBC One need to focus on programmes like Strictly Come Dancing, The Apprentice, Doctor Who, Merlin and try to expand upon that. That's their strengths. They also need to fill a vacuum in comedy. I'd much prefer this to BBC trying to be like ITV (courtesy of Jay Hunt). 'So You Think You Can Dance?' is such a ridiculous project in my opinion. They already have a dancing show.

I think they could spend more on some shows but with their every move scrutinised in regards to their spending (because it's public money ) they get a lot of stick if they're seen to be going after big talent or doing anything that costs a fair bit of money. Completely ignoring the fact they might only be trying to make a good show for the public. It's the same old BBC can never win scenario, eg. if they're popular they're being too populist and dumbed down and if they're not popular they're not needed anymore, noones watching etc. You only have to look at this thread 7-8m consistently watching Strictly is considered as the death of that show. I don't understand how but quite a few of the self proclaimed ratings experts seem to think that's the case. Unless they really do only say this stuff to wind up anyone who dares to be remotely positive about the BBC, I never can tell.

I agree, it's a tough shout.

I think the BBC should be commended for Strictly Come Dancing, which is produced so well. I think Jay Hunt has done the show harm by removing Arlene. It is change for change's sake. That's why the executive culture is bad for TV, especially the BBC. It was the same with Moira Stuart, there was no reason - she was doing a fine job - does experience mean nothing these days?

And this kind of bad publicity is the BBC's own doing. I think it's good they're trying to unleash new talent, but that can come naturally, as stars are bound to retire at some point.

I think Strictly Come Dancing is coping well despite the needless scheduling changes as well. One thing I do agree with Simon Cowell about is that it is bad for the viewer that there is petty competition between the BBC and ITV. And it's six of one, half a dozen of the other. ITV clashing soaps, BBC clashing Strictly with X Factor.

I think the BBC and ITV need to come to a gentleman's agreement in order for BBC1 and ITV1 to compete fairly with each other, with the viewer in mind. It would create healthy competition.

With Ofcom not responsible for much, the regulator should take an active involvement in trying to build bridges between the broadcasters, and encourage them to show alternatives to each other. I personally would like ITV split into a commercial making body (75%) and a public service body (25%):-

Commercial arm:-
- Entertainment
- Drama
- Sport
- Factual

Public service arm:-
- Ethics & Current Affairs programmes
- Regional politics show
- News
- Regional news
- Regionalised idents
- 9pm documentaries
- Crown jewels sport
- Programmes for older people (more diversity)
- A new era of morning kids TV (Primeval/other Saturday night family dramas hopefully being the commerical benefit of this operaiton).

This would mean competition between BBC and ITV in all respects.

The main benefit of this:- The viewer always wins, and feels more at home on the channel.

One thing I think would be lovely to see is BBC1 and ITV1 sharing out sport. Because despite the ads, ITV can do sport rather well. It could lead to something like this:-

BBC main sport rights:-
FA Cup
Match of the Day (Premiership highlights)
Six Nations
The Boat Race
The Ashes

ITV main sports rights:-
Champions League
Formula One
Football League Live games/highlights
Boxing
Carling Cup

This would be the interests of all. North One Television were very good at making the Formula One, and I think it suits ITV. Champions League and boxing has always suited ITV, because they make an event of the fights and the particular tournament. Jim Rosenthal is mesmerising with the boxing, and Clive Tyldsley is the voice of the Champions League (rightly or wrongly). Would like to see Des Lynam back doing the Champions League, with Ryder going back to the Formula One.

The BBC would have the bulk of the coverage, and both broadcasters would equally share the England games. The FA Cup definitely belongs at the BBC. It'd be nice if BBC and ITV worked together to try & get some Premier League games.

I can't see how this is possible at all when an F1 race is interrupted by ads every 20 minutes.

Many F1 fans would prefer F1 on BBC.

New ITV show...

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage...#ixzz0Zk6ennO6

Certainly beats Popstar to Opera Star.

I think it might be quite good actually, in a surreal way.

The X Factor's year on year growth is nothing short of astonishing. It has averaged 12 million in the overnights alone - last year's series averaged 10.5m in the officials.

Two recommissions of interest this morning...

- Channel 4 recommisions 'You Have Been Watching'.
- BBC recommissions 'Miranda'.

Not surprised at all that BBC have recommissioned Miranda, given its combined 4m ratings.

The X Factor is yesterday's news.

This effect would be balanced out by BARB householders going to their relatives who aren't in BARB. So I'd have thought it should allow 20. I don't know whether it does though.

Poor scheduling of The Snowman on C4. Tradition should not be messed with

Someone has said on this thread

http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/forums/s...1181811&page=8

That Not Going Out is coming back, but I can't find it in The Sun's TV Biz section

Just in case anyone is waiting, the overnights have been delayed. Don't know why...

Thanks. I'm waiting to see if that Amanda Holden thing was a flop or not and if it was how badly it flopped. The idea has flop written all over it but the ITV Monday effect might have benefitted it.

I see there's more Robson Green on tonight.

What some people don't realise is that the word "popular" is in itself meaningless.

It should be used as a relative term really, as in "SCD is relatively less popular than X-Factor"

Popular used as an absolute just doesn't make any sense.