It has always been there - ever since an entertainer/journey was kept in over a natural dancer.

Perhaps the people on this forum know more about ballroom dancing than the average viewer. Speaking for myself, while I can see that Ricky seems to have a natural talent for dance, and Ali was always graceful, I don't see the same huge gulf between Chris and the others, and to my untrained eye the judges always seem rather picky (which is obviously their job).
I've never even noticed Chris's "hand" problem, all I see is an enjoyable dance with no obvious mistakes getting a lot of flak.
Is it possible that Chris and Ola's limitations are not as obvious to the average viewer as many on here seem to assume?

Also people on this board talk about 'talent' like it's a measurably quality we all agree on. Personally, and I'm thinking generally now, not about any particular couple, that the ability to squash the nerves, put on a show, connect to the audience, make it exciting, etc is part of talent, just as much as the shape of your hands or the direction your foot is pointing. I think people trained in dance are trained to think that unless the position is perfect it isn't good - and I understand that with professional dancing, I'm not dismissing that - but to most of the audience, that isn't the more important factor.

I think that some of the best dances over the years (for me)on SCD have come from people dancing on their nerves, knowing they were risking humilation and that feels brave to me and it's very exciting. Sometimes more technically able people can ride the technique, as it were, and hold some of themselves back and it's less exciting.

I think the entertainer has often won over the talented but here there is clearly a huge gap in popularity (in favour of Chris) and a huge gap in talent (such that it is simply silly to pretend that Chris can win on the merits of his dancing). There are still a few pretending they are entertained by Cola's actual dancing but they are becoming more embarrassed week by week to claim this as the disparity of the finalists appears more and more stark. Which also gives lie to the much repeated canard that Chris is the most improved.

It's basically dawning on everyone that in order to win Ricky has to produce 4 near perfect dances and the probability is that he might lose even then. However he and the ever competitive Natalie might just pull that off as they are determined to go out on a high! I think this is making some Cola fans resentful that this will taint Cola's victory by being too good and the Ricky fans bitter in anticpation that this will be the result.

It's also for some strange reason making Team Cola view Chris as a victim- again - even though he is still the clear favourate they are aware that even if he wins that doesn't mean anyone outside the cult can be persuaded that he really won because his dancing was more entertaining (rubbish except in the people like watching their favourates sense), that he deserves it for working hard (rubbish considering he has a morning job compared to his rival usually having a 14 hour workday) or because he has improved most (then why is the gap between he & Ricki increasing?).

Luckily some anonymous caller in a show is picked on him by telling him she didn't like the result at the weekend so he can claim to be the underdog again! It must be devastating to him to know that 1 person doesn't like him and he only has the support of a couple million who are voting for him!

Any evidence for that ?

I wasn't around for series two but seeing the footage about how he loved to dress up I wonder if people voted him in the final to see what he would wear for the showdance and coming out all Richard Gere he didn't disapoint.

How very condesending!

Rubbish - the real problem is that no one really has the complete package. Ricky is a good dancer but there's something a bit joyless about his dancing. Chris's fun but he isn't anywhere near as good - which one you go for depends on which matters more to you - it's a personal choice. With Jade the only candidate who had both has gone - it's a shame but you can't blame anyone for that.

I was the same. I liked Aled, but I didn't mind that he was denied a place in the final he possibly deserved on the technical merit of his performances, because the Erin & Julian partnership was so endearing and his whole outlook was just so different at the end from at the beginning. Also, he called Craig a silly old queen, which gets him bonus points in my book.


This pre-supposes that as someone supporting Ricky over Chris I must be weighing technical merit over entertainment. I don't. Ricky entertains me more, and it's not really down to technical merit very much at all.

I would have agreed with you - up until last saturday !

I found Ricky far more entertaining than Chris last weekend .

Still, either deserve to win just for making it to the final

Why are you presenting some things as facts when they are quite clearly not?

How do you know there is "clearly a huge gap in popularity (in favour of Chris) and a huge gap in talent (such that it is simply silly to pretend that Chris can win on the merits of his dancing)"?

What evidence do you have that "There are still a few pretending they are entertained by Cola's actual dancing but they are becoming more embarrassed week by week to claim this as the disparity of the finalists appears more and more stark"?

Where is the evidence to back up your argument that "this is making some Cola fans resentful that this will taint Cola's victory by being too good and the Ricky fans bitter in anticpation that this will be the result"?

And on what basis do you claim that Chris is "the clear favourate"?

I'm not denying you the right to your opinion - why on earth would I - but you make a number of sweeping statements in this post which simply cannot be backed up, so shoot rather some rather large holes in your anti-Chris argument.

Really enjoyed the potted history of Strictly conflict thanks Tabithakitten. I think they should get you on ITT to do a segment on this.

Reading this thread and others I've come to the conclusion different strokes for different folks, you can't please all of the people all of the time

Because clearly despite being near the bottom of the leader board for weeks Chris was never in a dance off. And despite being near the top of the board from the begining Ricki has been in the dance off twice.


By the evidence of my own eyes, the judges scores and the opinions of all those with dance experience who discuss the disparity between their levels of dance. Including Chris, Ola & James Jordon who have all admited that Ricki is a far better dancer!

The other evidence is equally as easy to find including your original post which shows how anyone critiqing the situation is called anti this and anti that and obviously shows how people have become so immersed in their positions they end up in complete denial of the facts and of course also how the tone becomes increasingly bitter for anyone that disagrees with the party lines.

I completely agree with all of this. You can't measure talent. Also, it's that vulnerability that wins my heart and quite often my vote. Sometimes good dancers have it and sometimes the poorer ones.

Every time the hysteria comes out on this forum, I can't help but imagine a fantasy Strictly final between Gene Kelly and Fred Astaire. I would be willing to bet that EXACTLY the same abuse got hurled around. Gene would be "crude". Fred would be "drippy". I doubt either would ever be referred to by their first name; it would all be "that smug Astaire", "that chavvy Kelly" etc etc ad infinitum.

Some people lack grace and generosity of spirit and they're always the ones with the biggest gobs. And I think that's what it all basically boils down to.

I'd still be sulking that Donald O'Connor got knocked out in rigged semi-final to get the judges pet through <sniff>.

That probably wouldn't happen. Donald O'Connor would get through on personality. After all why should Gene & Fred get through when they have it so easy from the begining when poor ickle Donald had a journey.

Ricky noticeably upped his game on Saturday - as noticed by many people. So sure, Chris may well not have been in a dance-off - but nobody actually knows now if there is a "huge" gap in popularity between the finalists.

Sure, everyone knows Ricky is technically a better dancer. But technique doesn't matter that much to the vast majority of the audience. What they respond to is showmanship - and that is why Chris is so popular.

My tone wasn't bitter in the slightest and I'm sorry if you interpreted it so. But I have to note that you are still presenting things as facts which most definitely are not. I'm not so entrenched in anything that I'm in denial of any facts - but you seem unable to back up your argument with any proof.

Where exactly are "the few" Chris fans "pretending they are entertained by Cola's actual dancing but they are becoming more embarrassed week by week to claim this as the disparity of the finalists appears more and more stark"? I have seen no evidence of this whatsoever. This is not a fact at all.

Where exactly are the "resentful" Cola fans and the "bitter" Ricky fans? There may be a few moaning minnies on both sides but I get the overwhelming impression that most posters are roundly brassed off with the animosity directed at all contestants that has crept into here this year, especially in the past few weeks. I certainly am.

Anyone not agreeing with the party lines? I have no problem with that. Anyone claiming their opinion to be fact is a different matter altogether, I'm afraid ... Clearly you are entitled to your opinion but please don't make sweeping statements with no foundation and expect them to go unchallenged.

There are polls on the internet and the betting odds still favour Team Cola although this has narrowed. Chris is still the favourate with eeven the poll on here giving him over 50% of the share - and that was when there were 3 contestants. So Ricky would have to pick up every single Ali supporter and gain votes of Chris to win. That is a wide margin.

And there is also a general consensus that Ricki is the best dancer. Which anyone who is fair would acknowledge although lots of people don't.

These are facts. How we interpret them is subjective but the facts are the facts. Chris is the favourate and Ricki is the best dancer - fact. All the bitterness stems from these facts and how people chose to deal with them.

'Best' is totally subjective. 'Best' in whose opinion? 'Best' in what way? Sure, Ricky is technically the best dancer. That is a fact, I'd agree. So would Chris! But the best dancer full stop? No, that's not a fact, much as you might like it to be. That's your opinion. There's a difference. You can find plenty of people on here who would prefer to watch Chris dance rather than Ricky.

And what about all the people voting for Chris? Do none of them think he's the best dancer?! Surely quite a lot of them must ...

I notice you have yet to back up the points I questioned in your earlier post ...

And no, all the bitterness does not stem from the 'facts' you quote. They aren't facts - they're your opinions.

All the bitterness generally stems from people not respecting other people's point of views. I respect yours but I have to challenge your use of the word 'facts' when it is inaccurate.

A number of people seem to be missing the point.
Strictly Come Dancing is first and foremost a light entertainment show. I presume the "strictly" bit is meant to be ironic ?..because it was never devised to be about finding a celebrity each year who could be taught to dance at professional level. The idea is to watch the celebrities go through the "journey", all the VT's and associated interviews, ITT etc, are all part of that entertainment. The reason for choosing celebrities in the first place was to entertain..otherwise why not pick a bunch of unknowns ?
Those celebrities who can put in the hours learning and find a way to "connect" with us (the viewers) are fulfilling their contract. If they can successfully learn to dance to a high standard while entertaining us, they are fulfilling more than their contract.
If a celebrity merely went about the task of learning, taking the whole process too seriously, he/she is just not entering into the spirit of the show. Perhaps many people would prefer a show based on a more serious approach. Just have a panel of expert judges and no public vote. We could dispense with celebrities and just have ordinary members of the public. Actually, I would find a show like that quite interesting, but I doubt it would have mass appeal.
As it stands, we have SCD..it's fun, a split between pure entertainment and a dance competition. For those who want to see something different, a new format, sack everyone, change the voting etc. I would say..be careful what you wish for.

I think it's safe to say that any programme based along those lines wouldn't air on a Saturday evening BBC1 prime time slot.

I would imagine that it would at the very least find itself shunted around the weekday early evening slot on BBC2 in a Masterchef style.

Isn't that just your subjective opinion and you don't give any basis for stating it. Why can you clearly state your opinion with no evidence whatsoever as fact but then try to act as the fact police over others?

By the way I did offer reasons why I formed my opinion but you ignored them, which is your right of course but then it is a bit odd and one sided an exchange to then keep on asking questions and to state your own opinions as factual.

That was not how people were talking a short while ago when it was so outrageous Chris might be eliminated in a dance-off when he was by far the most popular w/ claims that he was getting 40, 60, or more % more than the others.

Now that it's no longer convenient to take that line we see the claims that his popularity might not be so great.

It isn't. Don't be ridiculous. It's not totally subjective whether someone's in time w/ the music, for ex., & that is part of being good; best may then follow.

I'm not stating my opinion as fact, much as you'd obviously like me to be. It is a fact that the adjective 'best' is subjective. It has to be - otherwise there'd be no competition as we'd all vote for the same person. If you want the most extreme example, look at John Sergeant. You will find DS posters who genuinely liked his dancing. They thought he was 'the best'. You might disagree with that - I know I would - but that is their opinion and I respect that.

And sorry, but you did not offer any concrete evidence for what you said. You vaguely referred to things you'd seen on here and things other people have said. That may qualify as 'reasons' but it certainly isn't evidence, when you're pointing the finger at both Chris' and Ricky's fans and making unfounded accusations. Please be specific if you want your argument to be taken seriously.