i wonder how many really good innovative christmas singles are lying in waste paper bins every year because its simply not worth trying .

The thing is this. There have been many different types of Christmas No.1 in the history of the UK singles chart: Christmas-themed songs ranging from the tacky to the inspirational; great or popular pop or rock songs; novelty songs of little quality; and, in recent years, mediocre covers by reality talent show winners.

Now, barring the good old days when it took weeks for a song to even reach No.1, most of these songs will have been released to coincide with the Xmas No.1 battle. So what is wrong with a group of people saying "You know what? Why don't we take a good, old song and make that Xmas No.1 instead, as the charts are basically down to marketing strategy and media spend?"?

exactly if RATM group pull this off,it will give other artists the idea that putting out a really good christmas song wont get automatically trampled over by The X Factor winner

yes, i said no as in 'no it's not just because of that'. i must apologize for not being entirely literal. you just seem to be attacking everything i say.

Not sure about that, as the RATM song isn't selling loads because of the quality of song alone. It shows that orchestrated campaigns are needed.

Most songs have orchestrated release campaigns, don't they?

Exactly The X Factor's is over many weeks before the release

I hate both the damn songs equally. RATM is a load of crap, and Joe's just a schmaltzy ballad, bad at least its a damn sight more christmassy than a song about burning crosses (I know its actually about hypocrisy, but burning crosses...at Christmas )

I wish the Muppets or that Status Quo one sneaks up behind them whilst their both fighting, that would be a turn up for the books.

i didn't say there was anything wrong with it.

i just said that it was hypocritical and ironic to artificially manipulate a particular song to the top of the charts in as a protest of songs being artificially manipulated to the top of the charts.

and what is this Facebook thing, if not marketing strategy?

Iain

the muppets is slowly climbing up the download charts,just needs more advertisment

Not with Facebook group campaigns that garner nationwide coverage they don't.

How could he be behind it? The song was written over 15 years ago and as with any song, you have been able to download it on itunes for years- so there is no 'release' so to speak...

i'm not attacking what you say, i'm just trying to figure out what it is you're saying.

i can only go by what you write, and if you didn't say 'no, its not just because of that', then i'm not going to know that's what you meant.

again, this is a discussion forum - no need to take people disagreeing with you so personally.

Iain

I don't really see how it's hypocritical. The campaign is not about the fact that people are artificially inflating the charts, as you disingenuously imply. All singles are released with a marketing campaign.

The campaign is about the fact that the media strength of TXF gives whatever mediocre song Cowell decides on an almost unassailable lead in the race. This is about saying "No. We can, on limited resource, get a different, better song to No.1".

Come On Joe!!!

If he were to have bought the publishing rights to it, he'd be aware that such a campaign would see sales rise massively, particularly a song that seems to oppose what he's putting out.

I'd be massively surprised if it was his doing, mind you.

If you think RATM is a better song then poor you!!

Er no, because its a record company ploy to hype up sales. Both records are on the same label.

the only link to Simon Cowell this song has is that the song is on Epic(a subsiduary of Sony Music) and Simon Cowell is on the Board of Sony BMG and his label Syco is also another subsiduary of Sony Music

its hypocritical because it involves doing the exact same thing that its supposedly in protest of.

who's to say its a better song anyway? its hardly a universally known classic.

Iain

No, not yet. But with TV spend, or radio spend, or press spend, or, in the case of "The Climb", a television show that ran for about three months getting up to 16m viewers.

This facebook campaign is just a marketing campaign put together by amateurs with very little resource. If someone does have a great song, they should put together their own campaign. You seem to be implying that most singles, apart from TXF and RATM, just get chucked out there without a plan.

If anyone tells you this is any sort of serious protest, I'd laugh at them. Personally, I haven't bought the single because I don't care about the charts, as I don't follow them anyway.

That said, I just think this is a bit of fun really. I must admit, it'd be funny if it got to no1 instead of Cowell.

All the talk of 'manipulation' and telling people to do certain things, and they'll do it, is a bit absurd. People will do what they want- it's not like either side is brainwashed- if they buy it, it's because they want to- I don't see why the reason should be important.

So I don't have a problem with either side (though I am secretly rooting for RATM) I don’t think they’ll be winning many new fans though. Hardly the most accessible alternative music out there.

How does it involve leveraging a television audience of up to 16 million viewers a week to get a mediocre song to No.1?

And I personally think "Killing in the Name" is a better song, and, while I accept some people will say that is a subjective judgment... well, it is to the people that are buying it.

Even if RATM don't beat Joe (who?) singing whatever it is, at least it's made the Xmas #1 spot something to be fought over, rather than the XF shoe-in it's been for the last few years.

I'd be interested to know if the pre-orders for Joe are counted, and how many there were (they're the worst offenders - how can you pre-order a song *you haven't heard yet* by an artist *to be determined*?)

and you point is? a lot of artists are on Sony

they could have picked MeatLoafs Bat Out Of Hell that was released on the same label(Epic/Cleveland)

Journey's Dont Stop Believin also on a Sony subsiduary(Columbia)

esentialy your basically saying that if they picked any track from any of these labels
* Columbia Records
* Epic Records
* RCA Music Group
* Jive Label Group
* Legacy Recordings
* Sony Music Nashville
* Provident Label Group
* Sony Masterworks
* RED Distribution

that its down to Simon Cowell or Sony themeslves,i really do feel sorry for your pessimism

the fact that people keep bringing this link up(and its a teinuous one at that) is silly