Well he would have had to have been incredibly lucky to have guessed someone would choose to do a protest against the x-factor and then use this exact song!

Or maybe you're saying he had publishing rights before then? Seems unlikely. It's hardly the type of song I'd expect him to have on his books.

I know, it's a hypothetical 'what if Simon Cowell was behind it all?'. If he had bought the rights to the Rage song, he's savvy enough to know how to exploit his own show in such a way to make even more cash. It's a fairly machiavellian fantasy though, even for him.


I'm not, I'm saying that the RATM single is unique in that it's tapped into a notion of opposing X-Factor that transcends regular promotion and advertising. It's hard to see how a similar campaign could be conducted every year, when the behemoth it opposes is really just saying 'watch our show, buy our song'

If this succeeds it may encourage record companies to go all out in promoting Christmas singles in the knowledge that no.1 isn't necessarily a lock, but it wouldn't be the same as what's happening now.

So when you said "orchestrated campaign", you meant "anti-X Factor campaign"?

Basically, yes. Looking at it, an orchestrated campaign can be pretty much anything that's publicised or advertised, so apologies for the vague term I used.

You make it sound like Simon could just waltz in and buy whatever the hell he wanted. Who says the rights were for sale? Aren’t RATM giving the profits to charity? I’m not sure they’re the type of band that would just sell the rights to their song to Simon Cowell! It’d damage their credibility.

And he would have had to have bought it just before it was kicking off to make sure he made money + nobody knew it’d get such a huge response then.

Also, if he had bought the rights, I’m sure it would have been found out and mentioned by now, don’t you think?

Also, will you stop saying the song 'opposes' the x-factor! It has nothing to do with the x-factor, it was written before the x-factor existed- it's about police brutality and aside from perhaps finding it amusing, I'm pretty sure the band couldn't give a f*ck about the x-factor and whether their song beats it.

The kind of people who are whoring this song out as some sort of opposition to the x-factor are actually a bit of an embarrassment to metal fans.

The point here is that either way Sony are on to a winner and are getting extra coverage through people's misguided belief that buying the Rage Against The Machine record is some sort of strike against the establishment. You're getting played like a violin.

I cannot speak for anyone else but I disagree. I do not care who the money goes to, one fat cat studio exec is much the same as any other. Its not about trying to get back at Sony, Simon Cowell or anyone else. It is to stop this years xmas number 1 being another x factor winner doing a cover.
Not a strike against the establishment (although if that were the aim I can think of no better band), just a strike against having another crappy x factor number 1.

It's completely hypothetical, I don't believe any of this actually happened.

I don't believe RATM have commented on it yet, the Facebook group behind it has set up a charity page. If they do comment and decide to give the proceeds to charity though, all the better.

I'm not entirely sure they have too much say in who owns their rights as they're part of the Sony BMG back catalogue. I read that was part of the terms of their deal, especially after initially disbanding. May not be the case.


Other versions of Hallelujah sold big last year, he knows the value of putting something against X-Factor. It would be a gamble to pick the RATM song, but he's got a few quid spare I'm sure.

Again though this is a VERY big 'what if?'


I'd certainly hope so. Imagine the eventual unmasking if he did though, it'd be like a Scooby-Doo villain.


You misunderstand me; I'm aware of the original intent of the song (of course it has nothing to do with a show in the 2000s) but it has been used for this as it has a choice quotable ending that can, and has been applied to oppose X-Factor; see the campaign slogans.

The opposition I refer to is related to the people championing the song as an alternative, not the acts of the band themselves or even the actual song.


I'd like to think RATM are a little bemused by it all, if they even know too much about it.

That's largely the way I feel too.

Why care about the charts though?

Most people I know who listen to alternative music couldn't care less about the charts.

Well, you grow up with the charts though, don't you. Especially the Christmas No.1. I don't care that much, but I do miss the excitement of listening on the Sunday evening before Xmas, and all that.

celesti; quoting that would take too long

Basically, what I am saying is, I don't think there's a cat in hells chance he has the rights to it! It's too unlikely, I know it was hypothetical, but none of your hypothetic arguments are particularly strong are they! In fact, I think between us, we just showed that it'd actually be incredibly unlikely- but yes, I'll admit it's possible.

And as far as I know, bands do have a say in who they sell their rights to. RATM were pretty big in the US. I'm sure they have more control over their music than you think. At least more than a lot of smaller bands.

And yes, I realise the song has been used by some people as some sort of serious protest against the ex-factor, which I find funny. The song may not be particularly poignant and admittedly, it isn’t one of my favourites, but the song has a serious meaning. It’s a shame it’s been cheapened in this way to beat some x-factor song, that no true metalhead would give a flying f*ck about anyway

I can understand people buying it for a laugh (would be funny hearing it on christams day ) but as some serious protest against the x-factor? That’s just sad.

Edit: Yes, the band do know about it. Tom Morello (guitarist) has twittered about it and like I said, I heard money was going to charity.

He does seem mostly amused by it tbh, as anyone would be if it was there obscure(ish) song from the 90's suddenly getting this attention. Probably laughing at us zany Brits

Perhaps when I was younger, when top of the pops was on and people went out to buy singles, what was no1 had a bit more impact (to me).

But for the past decade or so, I don't have any interest in them at all. Perhaps that's mainly because most of the music I listen to happens to be more obscure, or maybe because that aspect of popular culture has declined. Not sure.

Oh, I completely agree. He'd have to be the ultimate puppeteer to pull something like this off; I mean, he's good but not that good (let's hope not at least...)



Ah good, that's the reaction I was hoping to see from him/them.

exactly 100 percent agree

it doesnt matter what label the song is on

yep,last year was the first time id listened to the christmas charts since i was a teenager(well tell a lie i listened to it the year that the Darkness released their christmas record)

it involves attempting to leverage a Facebook membership of millions.

the exact means isn't the point though - its the principle, ie trying to take advantage of a mass audience to boost a song to the top of the charts that, all else being equal, wouldn't be there.

and yes - it is musical taste is subjective. personally, i'm not fussed by either, but would say that one is more Christmassy than the other.

Iain

Well, yeah. It would be horrible listening to No1 after No2 last year.

But what makes your music taste more important then the people who buy the X Factor single? That's why I like the idea of the label making my money out of people's music snobbery.

but its not just my music taste(which is very varied i may add) its 700 thousand other peoples as well,its only the same as having to hear X FACTOR this X factor that

its an alternative as is the many other records bought at this time

and fair play to Sony for whatever money they make as that doesnt bother me in the slightest,ive given Sony a hell of a lot of money in the past,about as much as i would have given EMI or Warners

The exact means is the point, and to say otherwise is to distort the point. The reason for this campaign is because for the past four years the coveted, culturally significant, Christmas No.1 spot has gone to the winner of The X Factor, because that show reaches most of the country across its run, and get a 60% share for the final. This is the primary reason why the winners always get No1, not the quality of the material, and that's what people are annoyed about. The means, not the fact that they are marketed.

nope - i still say both are examples of trying to get a song to the top of the charts by means out with the usual means.

Iain

well OK then - what is it about the taste of these 700k that is any better than the people buying TXF single?

if they simply happen to like the RATM song anyway, why even mention TXF?

whatever else, don't pretend this isn't about some people adopting some sort of self righteous musical high ground, however jokey it may be.

Iain

nothing we all have a choice,the same way we all have an opinion no ones is better than anyone elses

but if supporting this group or any other group Makes me a musical snob then so be it

The usual means being?