records released, people hear about them, and buy them.

without the involvement of, i dunno, a cynical three month long tv series culminating in a sure fire number hit, or the promotion of a song via a viral Facebook campaign.

suppose RATM gets to number one - i might lament the days of old when songs didn't have to rely on viral Facebook campaigns, but got to number 1 on their own merit.

talking of which, like it or not, Joe has spent three months demonstrating his merit to TXF audience, and unlike RATM, hasn't had to rely on a viral Facebook campaign.

Iain

With no marketing support at all? No press? No TV spots? No music video? No PR? How often does this happen?

All singles have some support, it's the means and scale of support that is the issue.

so what if we are? at the end of the day as a music fan it is exciting to see a much better, creative , credible song (and this doesn't have to be RATM it could be anything) succeed over a musical outlet thats given way to so many uninspiring repetetive bland artists. If that means I'm taking a musical high ground, so be it. But thats only part of the main point. You're picking out little bits for you're own convenience.

The RATM song is awful. I want Joe to get to number one. He really deserves it imo.

here here . joes cd hits the shops tomorrow so that will give it a massive boost

You people are sad. Really sad.

Which people?

RATM have crashed itunes!

They have gone back ahead of Joe it appears! They have been closing all day and now it's frozen!

This is gonna be closer than we all imagined! Physicals will be the key tho...how much Joe sells!

Like has been said, the physicals will obviously push Joe in front of Rage (unfortunately) as people will be picking up the CD as a stocking filler type present. Thanks to the lack of a 'Killing in the Name' physical copy it'll get left in the dust.

i didn't say not without regular press, tv spots, music videos etc.

(how else do you think people hear about stuff?)

what i did say was without either a cynical three month long tv series culminating in a sure fire number hit, or the promotion of a song via a viral Facebook campaign.

clearly both are above and beyond regular press, tv spots, music videos etc.

and something which hasn't been mentioned yet, but this competitive edge will almost certainly boost sales of both songs, even if RATM does end up being number one.

Iain

mainly because of the patronising superiority thing.


sure - but there's very little credibility or satisfaction about seeing a song, seemingly chosen at random, doing well not on its own merit, but simply as a tool resulting from a viral campaign to prevent something else from being number 1.

and i disagree that it is a small point - as far as i can tell, its the entire crux of the issue.

Iain

What a choice?
They are both fookin' awful.

Surely something better should have been backed to take on Cowell's crap karaoke act.

I'd say that RATM currently being #number 1 on the midweek album charts suggests that enough people like this 'random' song to want to buy the whole album.

That isn't part of a viral campaign.
That's just music fans buying music because they like it.

Some would say that's the ultimate proof of something doing well on its own merit.

oh come on! you're telling me there's no connection between the Facebook campaign, and RATM sales?

and that a lot of people aren't buying it primarily to stop TXF from being Xmas number 1?

as for album sales, i'd put that down to people hearing RATM through the campaign, and buying it because they like it.

just as i'd put people buying Joe's song down to people hearing it on TXF, and buying because they like it.

Iain

How are you defining "regular" activity? What makes either the RATM campaign or TXF different?

Maybe people saw the group, listened to the song and bought it because they liked it. Or maybe people saw the group thought 'I remember that song from when I was 18, I never did buy it so I'll buy it now'
After all you believe that people only buy the X-Factor song cos they like it so what's the difference?

How many RATM downloads have you guys bought so far then? I'm up to 5. Down with The King of the Beavers and his evil empire!

how about the sort of typical press, TV spots, music video, PR that any other single would get.


well, if you're now going to argue that TXF is no different to the promotion of any other single, then what's the problem?

if you can't recognise the difference between TXF and the RATM campaign and the coverage that pretty much any other single gets, then i think you're just being obtuse/.

Iain

i think that a lot of people will be buying it just to stop TXF getting to number one, regardless of how much they like it.

Iain

But you think everyone who buys X Factor likes it?

Of course they will be, this is a PROTEST!

Feel free to join!

It's a protest for sure. Cowell is buying the Christmas number one due to the success of his tv show. He's the ultimate tv pimp. LOL This year people have enough of his pimping!!!

Haha I want to see Cowell's face! First the christmas number one then the whole empire. This is a music revolution albeit being led by an unlikely source!

If he's beaten to Christmas no.1, it really won't be the start of his downfall. It'd be a minor blip at the very most, and add another little sub-plot to the next series of his show.

Little battles like this can be won, but a war on Simon Cowell will only see one winner, and he's got ridiculously white teeth and square hair.

I'm not being obtuse, Iain, I'm saying that it's a matter of scale and impact.

All singles are released with some form of marketing comms strategy, whether that's PR, radio, TV, press, social media, online, whatever. This Facebook RATM is using social media effectively. "The Climb" is using a TV show. Other singles might use radio airplay, or a PR stunt.

The issue that people have with Joe McElderry's single is that The X Factor is such a powerful marketing tool that it removes all the competition, the need for musical quality, all the fun, from the Xmas No1 battle.

It's the scale of it that annoys people.