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Old 16-12-2009, 12:54
iain
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But you think everyone who buys X Factor likes it?
well, yes, it does seem to be the most likely explanation.

why else would they be buying it?

Iain
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Old 16-12-2009, 12:56
iain
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Of course they will be, this is a PROTEST!

Feel free to join!
its not me you need to convince about that.

Iain
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Old 16-12-2009, 12:58
iain
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I'm not being obtuse, Iain, I'm saying that it's a matter of scale and impact.

All singles are released with some form of marketing comms strategy, whether that's PR, radio, TV, press, social media, online, whatever. This Facebook RATM is using social media effectively. "The Climb" is using a TV show. Other singles might use radio airplay, or a PR stunt.

The issue that people have with Joe McElderry's single is that The X Factor is such a powerful marketing tool that it removes all the competition, the need for musical quality, all the fun, from the Xmas No1 battle.

It's the scale of it that annoys people.
i know that all singles are released with some form of marketing.

but my point is that both TXF and the RATM facebook campaign are above and beyond the marketing that other singles would typically receive.

whatever else, that much shouldn't be in dispute.

Iain
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Old 16-12-2009, 13:05
missym82
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well, yes, it does seem to be the most likely explanation.

why else would they be buying it?

Iain
if they liked it that much why didn't they buy it when it came out in March? It only got to number 11 - I think that says it all
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Old 16-12-2009, 13:08
celesti
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if they liked it that much why didn't they buy it when it came out in March? It only got to number 11 - I think that says it all
Not necessarily; people may not have heard Miley Cyrus' version, whereas this version was shown to around 19 million people.
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Old 16-12-2009, 13:08
iain
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if they liked it that much why didn't they buy it when it came out in March? It only got to number 11 - I think that says it all
Joe's single came out in March?

are you sure?

assuming you're talking about Miley's version, maybe - and this is just a wild stab in the dark - they hadn't heard it?

as such, it doesn't tell us anything, let alone everything.

Iain
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Old 16-12-2009, 13:10
minority
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Joe's single came out in March?

are you sure?

assuming you're talking about Miley's version, maybe - and this is just a wild stab in the dark - they hadn't heard it?

Iain
I would guess he is on about the original version and not Joe's cover of it.

Singing a Kids, miley cyrus cover....what a way to start your career!
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Old 16-12-2009, 13:11
decemberboy
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well, yes, it does seem to be the most likely explanation.

why else would they be buying it?

Iain
Thanks, that's all I wanted to know.
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Old 16-12-2009, 13:15
totallyclueless
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I'm not being obtuse, Iain, I'm saying that it's a matter of scale and impact.

All singles are released with some form of marketing comms strategy, whether that's PR, radio, TV, press, social media, online, whatever. This Facebook RATM is using social media effectively. "The Climb" is using a TV show. Other singles might use radio airplay, or a PR stunt.

The issue that people have with Joe McElderry's single is that The X Factor is such a powerful marketing tool that it removes all the competition, the need for musical quality, all the fun, from the Xmas No1 battle.

It's the scale of it that annoys people.
Excellent response, I think this sums it up for most people. The X Factor has become the Tyrell Corporation of pop music, and RATM4XMAS is a grassroots campaign to take it down.
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Old 16-12-2009, 13:18
C-Dog
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Well here's my opinion. Whilst I personally think that x factor is a load of crap (my opinion) and a major reson for the decline of music quality in the mainstream, this RATM is as much as a novelty as the X factor single.

I don't follow the charts. Couldn't care less who's no.1. I just find it so strange that those who want RATM to go to no1 and the same for Jeff Buckly, I would imagine they wouldn't follow the charts also, so really why care? The charts are becoming irrelevant imo.
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Old 16-12-2009, 13:21
iain
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Thanks, that's all I wanted to know.
you forgot to say why else you might think people might be buying it.

why do you think people might be buying it, other than the fact that they, you know, like it?

Iain
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Old 16-12-2009, 13:22
missym82
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Joe's single came out in March?

are you sure?

assuming you're talking about Miley's version, maybe - and this is just a wild stab in the dark - they hadn't heard it?

as such, it doesn't tell us anything, let alone everything.

Iain
You know fine well what I mean....

from my experience people who buy the x factor single are people who listen to the charts and know what songs are out so I think a lot of people who are buying Joe's version certainly did know the Miley Cyrus one but are only buying it because of the X Factor. Fair enough if they like it but it's a cheap move - it was out in March, soundtrack to a Hannah Montana film - I think Joe is a lovely singer and seems like a lovely boy but the song is terrible and unfortunately for him I can't see it getting much better
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Old 16-12-2009, 13:23
missym82
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Not necessarily; people may not have heard Miley Cyrus' version, whereas this version was shown to around 19 million people.
19 million might have watched it but they sure as aint aren't buying it...imagine if everyone who watched the show actually bough the single! Smug wouldn't be enough to describe Simon Cowell!
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Old 16-12-2009, 13:24
akenny01
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hope rage get num 1
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Old 16-12-2009, 13:26
iain
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You know fine well what I mean....

from my experience people who buy the x factor single are people who listen to the charts and know what songs are out so I think a lot of people who are buying Joe's version certainly did know the Miley Cyrus one but are only buying it because of the X Factor. Fair enough if they like it but it's a cheap move - it was out in March, soundtrack to a Hannah Montana film - I think Joe is a lovely singer and seems like a lovely boy but the song is terrible and unfortunately for him I can't see it getting much better
yes, i edited it afterwards.

i'm not sure about your experience, but from my experience, 15m + people watch TXF which dwarves typical singles sales these days.

from my experience, its mostly young people who are bothered by the singles charts, whereas people of all ages watch TXF.

either way, it seems likely that far more people saw Joe on TXF than ever saw Miley's version.

i get that a lot of people don't like it, but what's with the holier than thou attitude that makes people find it so difficult to accept that other people might actually buy it because they like it?

for what its worth, its not something i would buy, but find it pretty inoffensive on the radio.

Iain
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Old 16-12-2009, 13:26
celesti
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19 million might have watched it but they sure as aint aren't buying it...imagine if everyone who watched the show actually bough the single! Smug wouldn't be enough to describe Simon Cowell!
Oh, of course not; but it's certainly a song that enjoys a lot more exposure now than it did earlier in the year. I think the Miley Cyrus version had seen a rise in downloads as a result also.
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Old 16-12-2009, 13:27
Geelong Cat
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you forgot to say why else you might think people might be buying it.

why do you think people might be buying it, other than the fact that they, you know, like it?

Iain
I think a lot of people buy it because it's a sort of 'end product' of the weeks and months they spend watching X Factor, if you see what I mean. A souvenir of the time they've invested in it. This is one of those cases where the brand (X Factor) is more important than the song itself - people will buy it because it's the X Factor song, regardless of whether they particularly like it (though since it's usually pretty inoffensive, formulaic pop, I dare say they don't dislike it).

I certainly don't think it's down to the quality of the music itself, anyway; less so than ever this year, since 'The Climb' is one of the weakest X Factor choices so far.
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Old 16-12-2009, 13:28
celesti
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I think a lot of people buy it because it's a sort of 'end product' of the weeks and months they spend watching X Factor, if you see what I mean.
This makes sense; a lot of people have essentially invested their time and support in the eventual winner.
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Old 16-12-2009, 13:30
totallyclueless
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Well here's my opinion. Whilst I personally think that x factor is a load of crap (my opinion) and a major reson for the decline of music quality in the mainstream, this RATM is as much as a novelty as the X factor single.

I don't follow the charts. Couldn't care less who's no.1. I just find it so strange that those who want RATM to go to no1 and the same for Jeff Buckly, I would imagine they wouldn't follow the charts also, so really why care? The charts are becoming irrelevant imo.
I largely agree but don't you just think it would be HILARIOUS to see a metal track at #1 for Christmas?
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Old 16-12-2009, 13:30
iain
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I think a lot of people buy it because it's a sort of 'end product' of the weeks and months they spend watching X Factor, if you see what I mean. A souvenir of the time they've invested in it. This is one of those cases where the brand (X Factor) is more important than the song itself - people will buy it because it's the X Factor song, regardless of whether they particularly like it (though since it's usually pretty inoffensive, formulaic pop, I dare say they don't dislike it).

I certainly don't think it's down to the quality of the music itself, anyway; less so than ever this year, since 'The Climb' is one of the weakest X Factor choices so far.
so they like it enough to buy it, and to listen to.

people aren't under some moral obligation to only buy stuff that they consider to be the best that music has to offer.

Iain
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Old 16-12-2009, 13:35
Burning Bright
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The issue that people have with Joe McElderry's single is that The X Factor is such a powerful marketing tool that it removes all the competition, the need for musical quality, all the fun, from the Xmas No1 battle.
Possibly, but according to posts on this forum the single hasn't sold that well. So possibly people have hard the song, decided they don't like it and are not buying it. Which considering the ratings for the xfactor it would seem like the powerful marketing tool hasn't worked that well in the end.

People will buy the music they like, if they don't like it they don't buy it. As I think this single is proving.

Is the xfactor effect really that different to popular groups getting the Christmas number or a novelty act?

If RATM get the number one spot how is that any different to the xfactor winning? It's a nearly 20 year old song that few people will have heard recently, it's not a popular song and people are having to buy multiple copies to do it.

this RATM is as much as a novelty as the X factor single
I agree.
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Old 16-12-2009, 14:09
Maidenfan666
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Im a HUGE heavy metal hard rock fan and it would be neat to see such a band get the xmas no 1 HOWEVER, i dislike linkin park and the rest of their nu metal ilk to quite a degree, so im not a huge fan of RATM or rap metal in general, so im not bothered either way.
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Old 16-12-2009, 14:13
jcheekychappy
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Well here's my opinion. Whilst I personally think that x factor is a load of crap (my opinion) and a major reson for the decline of music quality in the mainstream, this RATM is as much as a novelty as the X factor single.

I don't follow the charts. Couldn't care less who's no.1. I just find it so strange that those who want RATM to go to no1 and the same for Jeff Buckly, I would imagine they wouldn't follow the charts also, so really why care? The charts are becoming irrelevant imo.

Maybe by having RATM it would bring the charts back and show that they weren't irrelevant at all.

If the underdog(RATM) can get to number 1 i think it shows that there is still hope for the old top 40.
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Old 16-12-2009, 14:41
Hotelier
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RATM is now over 100% ahead of Joe on Itunes!.
So, even if Joe sells 50% physical, this wont be enough if the trend continues.
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Old 16-12-2009, 14:52
Victim Of Fate
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i know that all singles are released with some form of marketing.

but my point is that both TXF and the RATM facebook campaign are above and beyond the marketing that other singles would typically receive.

whatever else, that much shouldn't be in dispute.

Iain
No, it is in dispute. You're attempting to introduce a dichotomy where one doesn't exist.

There isn't simply "Normal marketing" and "Special marketing" - it's a sliding scale.
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