[Solamenn]

Originally Posted by Muttley76

i didn't see it as a goodbye though, it was more the rebooted show going full circle. The end is where we start from, as Jack once said. I don't think it was even so much about Rose as about us being taken back to the start where one day soon Rose will wake up, go to work, meet Nine and we are off....

Yes, I agree. It had a charm and a fresh look that the goodbye in JE hadn't because the goodbye in JE to me was "What ? Again ?" but this moment was in a sense a send off before the beginning. I'm not sure I'm clear

Originally Posted by Macek

I'm all up for mixing stories and more Delgado, but just to throw some continuity to the mix, how about the E-space trilogy? Even if not every story might be to everyone's taste, it's still interesting and worth seeing probably.
(I know we have Four on the list already, but we could file it under K9 or something. )

I'm open to all suggestions as you know it, I only wait for more opinions in one direction or another so that we can satisfy as many persons as possible.

So I remind the suggestions : The Claws of Axos (Three and Delgado's Master) and the E-Space trilogy.
Voice your thoughts, people

[Macek]

Originally Posted by Muttley76

i didn't see it as a goodbye though, it was more the rebooted show going full circle. The end is where we start from, as Jack once said. I don't think it was even so much about Rose as about us being taken back to the start where one day soon Rose will wake up, go to work, meet Nine and we are off....

Exactly. I can understand many different problems people had with EOT, (or any other RTD episode actually), but this scene couldn't be more harmless...

[Peppermint Aero]

Bubble and I are just starting part 1. He is already holding my foot as I type this...

10's last line/look on his face

And 11 - well I liked him BUT the lughting made his face look all lumpy and odd! All i could think was that he looked like that awful comedy show they used to do where the heads of famous people were all huge and exaggerated! But I did quite like him. But I was still too sad to enjoy him at the time as there was so much of 11, more than i expected!

None of the EOT was really what i expected, and I can't really explain that. Maybe I expected more because they had gone on and on about how epic it was all going to be, but I did enjoy it. The second part much more so than the first, which could easily have lost 15 minutes without changing the plot at all. All those shots of the Master at the end - ok, ok we get it, they all look like him Adored all the Doctor and Wilf scenes, they were my favourites

Must go, Master just killed people, Bubble needs me!

[weedledeedle]

Originally Posted by Peppermint Aero

Bubble and I are just starting part 1. He is already holding my foot as I type this...

10's last line/look on his face

And 11 - well I liked him BUT the lughting made his face look all lumpy and odd! All i could think was that he looked like that awful comedy show they used to do where the heads of famous people were all huge and exaggerated! But I did quite like him. But I was still too sad to enjoy him at the time as there was so much of 11, more than i expected!

None of the EOT was really what i expected, and I can't really explain that. Maybe I expected more because they had gone on and on about how epic it was all going to be, but I did enjoy it. The second part much more so than the first, which could easily have lost 15 minutes without changing the plot at all. All those shots of the Master at the end - ok, ok we get it, they all look like him Adored all the Doctor and Wilf scenes, they were my favourites

Must go, Master just killed people, Bubble needs me!

WB PA

nice to see you around here again, don't leave it too long though, cos we all love reading about Bubble and Baby Bubble

Part II to come - get the kleenex ready

[Muttley76]

Here is the TW survivior video with final results....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0RHwSLx04sc

[NewbieCanuck]

Originally Posted by Solamenn

I like your idea.
Because it's true that Martha's story was all nicely wrapped and she was happy, thanks to TW, whereas Mickey's future was still left a bit vague after JE and still looked a bit like the stupid clingy boyfriend.

A thought I had last night just before bed was that having Martha leave her fiancé and marry Mickey makes it easier to put her in Torchwood, if that's the plan.

1) It gets rid of the outside spouse. Rhys has that covered and Tom would be superfluous, if admittedly far more decorative.

2) It makes Martha a bit more of a "bad" girl. Perhaps it was because of the schoolgirl crush aspects of her feelings for the Doctor

Originally Posted by Solamenn

Which one do you think about ?
To me the only other would be that he comes back in DW, but the character is a RTD creation and the question "are you going my way" could be just as well a way of checking if Alonso is gay than a way of asking if he'd be interested in going to Earth

I didn't take it as either of those questions. Jack's never been interested in definitions of sexuality. He assumes everyone is interested in him, and he's usually right. And he'd also rightly assume that the Doctor, who's spent so much time stopping him from flirting, isn't about to fix him up with someone who wouldn't be potentially interested.

I saw it simply as a chat-up line, with no destination in mind other than leaving the bar together.

Now, onto far more important issues. Namely, do Adipose never get any bigger, or do Adipose parents allow their children to run around unescorted in bars? Where's a good nanny when you need one? Oh that's right - in a puddle on the pavement.

I know in the Writer's Tale RTD described adult Adipose as 15 feet tall, but as it hasn't been shown on screen it can't be considered ironclad valid.

[Peppermint Aero]

Originally Posted by weedledeedle

WB PA

nice to see you around here again, don't leave it too long though, cos we all love reading about Bubble and Baby Bubble

Part II to come - get the kleenex ready

Hmm, well he might not ask where the David Doctor has gone - because he has been reading the bedtime stories on Cbeebies since Christmas week lol! Oh yes - I bet I've seen more of David than you He does penguins well...

"He's turned all the boys into the Master Mummy - that's not good! "

[evil twin]

hey folks - happy new year & happy holidays to everyone!
(& Happy Anniversary Thread!)

(sorry this has turned out rather long, but it grew a bit after I started!)

I missed the first ten minutes yesterday and like solamenn, wasn't sure how I felt about the ep the first time through - lots of running about and missiles, I wasn't really sure what was going on - but I've watched it through properly today a time (or two) and like it a lot now. Think I can watch the confidential now and start to come back to normal

The few things I didn't entirely like:

Originally Posted by Tigger-Roo

The only part that really niggled me was throwing the diamond from the time locked war zone out over earth and for it to land there.

yeah, that rather annoyed me - so, timelock = nothing in or out? Except for magically flying diamonds, what?

...and the falling a mile out of the sky and getting a few cuts. Tut.

.. and the general amount of master-cackling and people-shaking-heads: we could have had more plot with that time!

- the skull bit. Not sure quite what that was for.

Rassilon: who takes the two people who voted AGAINST a decision along to be there at the decision's deciding point? Oh yeah, a super-megalomaniac. Fair enough.


Things I really really liked:

-Bernard cribbins, is of course, awesome.

-I like the cacti a lot.

Originally Posted by Tigger-Roo

The Master was awesome as is JS and I loved it when he came back to save the Doctor...get out of the way!

-me too. Utterly

In fact one of the things that made me feel slightly odd about the episode the first time I saw it, was that this was much more about the master: all the stuff to do with the drums being real, and working out how to find where they were coming from, and then do something about it. And that he was (I can't remember who already said this) kind of a manipulated victim. That kind of got me .
I loved the Gallifrey-rising/falling scene with rassilon and the doctor and the master, which is basically 15 minutes of people telling the master what's going on and how things are a good/bad plan, and he's reacting to everything and changing sides every 10 seconds. I think JS did an amazing job on this.
Anyway

[Makes me wonder: if/when (when, surely?) they bring back the master, how will they deal with that? Will the drums still be there or will that have moved along because it's dealt with now?
And I'm a bit sad the timelords couldn't stay in some way, I think I'd have liked knowing they were around in the background somewhere and might appear at any moment rather than being locked off. Still, who knows?]


-DT in general, obv!
but particularly the i'm-still-alive-knock-knock-knock-knock bit...

Wasn't sure how I felt about 20 min of goodbyes, but I love Martha and I love Mickey (don't get them being married, but whatever). Laughed out loud at Jack's one. Cried at Jessica Stevenson's one. Feel like Donna's missed out a bit somehow. The Rose one didn't make me feel irritated with her so that was a step forward.

DT's last line made me cry again, good choice RTD, .


And onto the new one.... I thought he looked a bit weird to start with - maybe because he's such a different shape from DT - but the 2010 trailer looks really good so I'm looking forward to it....

...but i'm glad it's not happening just yet .
I'll be glad to have some time to let it settle.


Drat: Feeling mournful again, off to watch the trailer a few more times..

[Solamenn]

Originally Posted by NewbieCanuck

2) It makes Martha a bit more of a "bad" girl. Perhaps it was because of the schoolgirl crush aspects of her feelings for the Doctor

Someone (and I don't remember who or where) talked about Tom being Martha's rebound for the Doctor. And I thought it was a good idea.
But, to use your words, I found Tom much more decorative than Mickey

Originally Posted by NewbieCanuck

I didn't take it as either of those questions. Jack's never been interested in definitions of sexuality. He assumes everyone is interested in him, and he's usually right. And he'd also rightly assume that the Doctor, who's spent so much time stopping him from flirting, isn't about to fix him up with someone who wouldn't be potentially interested.

I saw it simply as a chat-up line, with no destination in mind other than leaving the bar together.

I like the idea that was discussed here : that The Doctor fixed them together because he knows that Jack is crushed by the guilt of what happened in CoE and Alonso didn't seem like a happy bunny either, presumably because he felt some sort of guilt over what happened in VotD (or maybe totally something else that we may hear about).
So the Doctor would have given those two lonely men a chance of a new beginning in a new relationship, finding solace in each other. Maybe also knowing that they'd be good for each other.

Originally Posted by NewbieCanuck

Now, onto far more important issues. Namely, do Adipose never get any bigger, or do Adipose parents allow their children to run around unescorted in bars? Where's a good nanny when you need one? Oh that's right - in a puddle on the pavement.

Definitely Adipose kids allowed to wander in bars without surveillance
And it added a sense of cute to an already very fun scene as it is a definitely huggable creature

[Peppermint Aero]

Hmm - that looks different written to how it was said! It was 'he's turned all the boys into the Master, Mummy' not some new adversary for the DoctorDonna, the MasterMummy

'They're not going to save the Master, Mummy.'

'Not unless he promises to be good'

'Otherwise.... he would get them!!!'

[Solamenn]

Originally Posted by Peppermint Aero

Bubble and I are just starting part 1. He is already holding my foot as I type this...

10's last line/look on his face

And 11 - well I liked him BUT the lughting made his face look all lumpy and odd! All i could think was that he looked like that awful comedy show they used to do where the heads of famous people were all huge and exaggerated! But I did quite like him. But I was still too sad to enjoy him at the time as there was so much of 11, more than i expected!

None of the EOT was really what i expected, and I can't really explain that. Maybe I expected more because they had gone on and on about how epic it was all going to be, but I did enjoy it. The second part much more so than the first, which could easily have lost 15 minutes without changing the plot at all. All those shots of the Master at the end - ok, ok we get it, they all look like him Adored all the Doctor and Wilf scenes, they were my favourites

Must go, Master just killed people, Bubble needs me!

Hi PA

[Macek]

Originally Posted by Solamenn

I like your idea.
Because it's true that Martha's story was all nicely wrapped and she was happy, thanks to TW, whereas Mickey's future was still left a bit vague after JE and still looked a bit like the stupid clingy boyfriend.

I thought he stopped being Rose's clingy boyfriend back in Doomsday, when he developed relationship with that big gun.

Martha/Mickey scene, on its own, was great. I just felt a bit left out, like someone forgot to sell me last gossip on Martha, and I used to love those gossips. Since she left the Doctor, it was the only way of finding out what's happening with her. And you can't blame me for being interested...

Originally Posted by Solamenn

Yep, thanks to The Five Doctors. But I really don't understand how he got thrown in the mix.

Time Lords resurrected him for the War? (I'm sorry, that was my best shot )

Originally Posted by Solamenn

Even if what didn't work for you isn't exactly what didn't work for me, I feel a little bit better that I'm not the only one who felt that it was not RTD's best story ever.

It wasn't RTD's best story ever.

[Solamenn]

Originally Posted by Macek

It wasn't RTD's best story ever.

I'm feeling again a bit better

Mmh... Now that we've seen all of what RTD wrote for DW, I wonder which is RTD's best story according to me...

[Muttley76]

No i don't think it was his best story. It was quite high up my list though.

My god that thread about gay people and DW is seriously becoming offensive. I loathe bigiots.

[trollface]

Originally Posted by nottinghamc

The Doctor never had a problem hitting people, he'd never use a gun, and he'd never kill, but hitting someone was never his problem.

He's killed people with guns before. 5 & 6 have killed Cybermen with gun, 4 shot a giant rat in "The Talons Of Weng Chiang", 3 has killed a couple of Ogrons with them, 2 uses a bodged together gun to kill a load of Ice Warriors in "The Seeds Of Death". So nearly half of the Doctors have killed sentient beings with guns.

Originally Posted by Muttley76

I don't think it was even so much about Rose as about us being taken back to the start where one day soon Rose will wake up, go to work, meet Nine and we are off....

I think it's in the commentary where RTD says that he had to think for ages of a way to get Rose in without messing up the continuity before thinking up visiting her before she met the Doctor. So it was definitely shoe-horning her in that came first.

Originally Posted by Solamenn

Where did you get the commentary ? It still hasn't downloaded from iTunes for me !

You can stream it off the main site. (although it's 5 minutes shorter than the broadcast version, so you have to keep moving the picture along whenever they reference something on screen).

Originally Posted by Solamenn

So I remind the suggestions : The Claws of Axos (Three and Delgado's Master) and the E-Space trilogy.
Voice your thoughts, people

Well, the first of the E-Space trilogy, "Full Circle" is my favourite classic story, so I definitely vote for that. The other two are good, too.

Originally Posted by Peppermint Aero

All i could think was that he looked like that awful comedy show they used to do where the heads of famous people were all huge and exaggerated!

Hedz. I used to love that.

Originally Posted by NewbieCanuck

A thought I had last night just before bed was that having Martha leave her fiancé and marry Mickey makes it easier to put her in Torchwood, if that's the plan.

In the commentary RTD says that the only reason he put them together is because then Martha's name is "Martha Smith-Jones", and he thought that was funny.

[NewbieCanuck]

Originally Posted by Solamenn

Someone (and I don't remember who or where) talked about Tom being Martha's rebound for the Doctor. And I thought it was a good idea.
But, to use your words, I found Tom much more decorative than Mickey

Oh Mickey's just as decorative, particularly with his new look. And he'll look even better as the meat in a Jack/Mickey/Alonso sandwich. The poor lad's been running away from his true self far too long.

So the Doctor would have given those two lonely men a chance of a new beginning in a new relationship, finding solace in each other. Maybe also knowing that they'd be good for each other.

I think Alonso has a lot of Iantish qualities - loyal, trustworthy, devoted, shy and definitely a beta male. Jack doesn't do well with equals like Capt. John. He needs to know his place in the ranks, either as a follower (with the Doctor) or as a leader (with Ianto and, I think, with Alonso).

And the best part is, RTD can't kill him, because he already did that to Ianto. And he's not human, so maybe he has a longer natural lifespan. We've already seen his healing abilities are nearly a match for Jack's.

Definitely Adipose kids allowed to wander in bars without surveillance
And it added a sense of cute to an already very fun scene as it is a definitely huggable creature [/quote]

[Muttley76]

Right, must off out for a bit. Laters!

[Solamenn]

Originally Posted by trollface

In the commentary RTD says that the only reason he put them together is because then Martha's name is "Martha Smith-Jones", and he thought that was funny.

And here we are over-analyzing Martha's relationship with Mickey and gossiping about her divorce with Tom when it was just a whim of his

Thanks for the info about the commentary, but I think I'll just wait for the download then. On Monday I'm back to work and I've already put in my iPhone Bang-bang-a-boom, The Holy Terror, Embrace the Darkness and The Time of the Daleks. So I'll listen to the commentary in between an audio adventure.

[doctordalek]

Originally Posted by SheMoore19

I cried at the bit with Verity Newman as HN/FOB is one of my very favourites and it was lovely to hear that Joan was happy in the end. Nice touch that Verity knew who he was.

This was the bit that set me off.

Loved the whole show, but that moment i found so sad.

[NewbieCanuck]

Originally Posted by Solamenn

And it added a sense of cute to an already very fun scene as it is a definitely huggable creature

But put them in a bar with Jack and Alonso and they're a poor third on the huggability scale.

Originally Posted by trollface

In the commentary RTD says that the only reason he put them together is because then Martha's name is "Martha Smith-Jones", and he thought that was funny.

RTD's Smith obsession borders on the psychotic sometimes. How are we supposed to notice the Master turning the whole world into Masters when RTD's already turned them into Smiths?

I can just imagine how happy the Jones family was to see Martha spurn her doctor fiancé for an unemployed ex-mechanic from a council estate and give up her career with UNIT for being a freelance alien hunter. Who on earth is going to pay them? Sarah Jane can do it because she inherited money from her aunt. Sylvia Noble probably got a phone call from Francine Jones asking for pointers on how to show your complete disappointment in your daughter.

[Solamenn]

Originally Posted by NewbieCanuck

Who on earth is going to pay them?

They sell back what they scavenge to Torchwood and UNIT ?
And they ask for incredibly unreasonable fees when UNIT asks for their help !

[clever chick]

Originally Posted by NewbieCanuck

I can just imagine how happy the Jones family was to see Martha spurn her doctor fiancé for an unemployed ex-mechanic from a council estate and give up her career with UNIT for being a freelance alien hunter. Who on earth is going to pay them? Sarah Jane can do it because she inherited money from her aunt. Sylvia Noble probably got a phone call from Francine Jones asking for pointers on how to show your complete disappointment in your daughter.

I'm sure Martha actually married Tom, didn't they mention in Torchwood that Martha was on her honeymoon? So that would make it even worse for Francine

[NewbieCanuck]

Originally Posted by clever chick

I'm sure Martha actually married Tom, didn't they mention in Torchwood that Martha was on her honeymoon? So that would make it even worse for Francine

Yes she was on her honeymoon, but it was never said that it was with Tom. I'd like to think that Martha hasn't been married, divorced and married again all since July!

Interesting plot hole: The Doctor left Rose on January 1, 2005. The TARDIS took off into Earth Orbit. No time vortex shots. The Doctor regenerates as the TARDIS is ripped apart and starts to crash into the Earth.

In episode 1, he crashes and presumably meets Amy quite soon afterwards. How much do you want to bet it's somehow Spring, 2010 when he lands?

[Peppermint Aero]

Originally Posted by clever chick

I'm sure Martha actually married Tom, didn't they mention in Torchwood that Martha was on her honeymoon? So that would make it even worse for Francine

They didn't say who she was on honeymoon with though...

[Hallamsteriscoo]

Originally Posted by clever chick

I'm sure Martha actually married Tom, didn't they mention in Torchwood that Martha was on her honeymoon? So that would make it even worse for Francine

I think they did say she was on her honeymoon, but did they actually say who with? Were we just left to assume it was with Tom?

Oooo, he's bloomin' sneaky is RTD