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I'm now going to have to reload itunes from the start! Advice pls...
Trollheart
16-12-2009
This thing I've been experiencing (those of you who have followed my other threads) with the tagging/Album Artist thing is just getting ridiculous, now to the point that some of my albums ---- AGAIN! --- are unable to be located because (I assume: I checked one and that was the only reason I could see why) this god-damn Album Artist tag is again sticking its stupid nose in and upseting itunes.

Prior to this, I highlit ALL album, did Get Info and checked the Album Artist field, in the hope that would remove it (or add it --- ffs, I don't care, once they're all the same, one way or the other!) and off it processed.

Hours later, I copied some of the "new" files off itunes to my ipod, and lo and behold! certain tracks cannot be loaded because they cannot be located! Same problem.

GAAAHHH!

So now I intend to take EVERYTHING off itunes, check the tags and reload it all back on. Oh joy!

Can ANYONE advise me of a fool-proof way to make sure that the Album Artist tag on all albums is either not written, or written, in all cases? Or if anyone else has any advice? I don't want to go through all this again and find I have the same problem....

Thx for your input guys.

TH
Trollheart
16-12-2009
Right, and what I really need now is a specific tagging prog, which will let me either add Album Artist to those files without it, remove it from those who have it, or allow the program to ignore it completely.
And preferably in batch mode, as I'm working with about 15,000 files here!
Any ideas?
FTR I have Tagscanner, TagTuner, MP3nity already...
player1
18-12-2009
I use mp3tag

http://www.mp3tag.de/en/
frasera
19-12-2009
check files tagging is correct in other players.
if so file is tagged, and itunes library has not updated for some reason. tags should be in the file, so you dont really have to reenter anything. perhaps just drag it back into itunes after deleting from library is all
Fromez
19-12-2009
Your options are to do things manually a la Tagscan and iTunes, or you could backup some of your music and give Musicbrainz Picard a go (connects to the net and retrieves tag data automatically). You could try it on some problematic albums (folder copies though) and see if it fixes them. You also have the choice to accept changes or not as far as I remember.
archiver
19-12-2009
I feel your pain Trollheart. I'm having my first ever experience of anything Mac and I must say I'm not impressed. I'm shocked that a program can get to version 9 and be so poor, although, perhaps earlier versions were better? I realise that the problems you and I are having are due to inconsistent mp3 tags, but I would have thought the user would at least get a warning, if not a choice of ways to fix it. To just appear as though the 'sync' operation completely worked is very unhelpful. It took me ages to find which files were missing and to work out what the problem was. As a Linux user, I don't like being forced to use Windows or OS X anyway.

The first shock was when it told me it would check "my music" folder for files. That's OK I thought, I don't have a "my music" folder. I think it found every .mp3 on every file system it could access! Not what I wanted at all. Anyway, sorry to rant in your thread.

Anyone know a way to stop it looking at every folder?
zapod
19-12-2009
OK, Trollheart, to give you a bit of background, I've installed a fresh copy of iTunes on the Windows partition of my Mac. I've imported 3 CDs into the empty iTunes and had a fiddle with the files/settings etc. Apologies in advance for the long post BTW.

First, you seem really hung up on the Artist Album field - this field has no bearing on how music is listed in iTunes OR your iPod - the Artist field only is used for that. However, (through my fiddling) I found that the Artist Album field does affect the way iTunes stores the mp3s on the filesystem.

If I select an artist [The Beatles] (crtl-A the tracks) then choose to do a mass edit of the info, then change the Album Artist to [The Muppets], iTunes creates a new folder called 'The Muppets' and under that the albums belonging to the Beatles. The folder named 'The Beatles' disappears. All the music remains unchanged and iTunes shows 'The Beatles' in the Artist column, and they would show up under 'The Beatles' on your iPod after a sync.

Now, I've just wrote a big spiel wrongly, because iTunes exhibits particular behaviour which only becomes apparent after a bit of experimentation.

As I stated, setting the Artist Album to something other than the Artist forces iTunes to store the music in a folder named after the Artist Album.

If, in windows explorer, you change the Artist folder name, iTunes will be unable to locate the files, because it's database hasn't been updated. Crucially, though, if you rename the folder (still outside of iTunes) to match what you had in the Artist field, then iTunes will find the music the next time it runs.

So, if I manually change the folder named 'The Muppets' back to 'The Beatles', then run iTunes again, it's able to find the music (probably because if the Album Artist folder can't be found [The Muppets], then look for a folder named after the Artist tag [The Beatles]).

Now, if I then go back into explorer and change the folder named 'The Beatles' to 'The Who', iTunes loses track of the files completey and asks if I want to locate the music.

In this situation, for many files, you'd need to delete the songs in iTunes - and notice how it doesn't prompt to ask if we want to keep the files or move them to the recycle bin - then use the Add Folder option to re-incorporate the tracks into iTunes.

Now, getting back to the Artist Album issue, I found that if I selected all the music in iTunes, then chose to do a mass edit of the info, all the tag fields appear blank. If I then put a check mark against Album Artist, then hit OK, iTunes then goes and re-builds the underlying file structure to match the entries in the mp3's Artist tag.

In my experimentation, I changed both 'The Beatles' and 'Bryan Adams' Album Artist field to 'The Who' - sure enough the two Artist folders disappear and are replaced by one named 'The Who'. (At this point, iTunes still shows The Beatles and Bryan Adams as Artists).

I then did a ctrl-A on all the tracks, did a ctrl-I, then put a check against the blank Album Artist field (the other fields were blank also). I hit OK, and 'The Who' folder disappears from explorer to be replaced by 'The Beatles' and 'Bryan Adams'. (The filesystem re-build I mentioned).

If you do try the actions in that last paragraph or any of the above, please for the love of God, do a backup first.

Sorry for the long-winded posting - this stuff is complicated for me and I've been using iTunes for years - but if any of the above sheds light on you're particular problem then it's all to the good. Besides, gave me something to do while the wife watches Strictly
Trollheart
19-12-2009
Thx guys for all your info and advice.
I have, to be frank, had it with itunes (and with Apple, to be honest: more on that later) --- the fact that it can somehow arbitrarily change tag info to something I did NOT put into an album, only on certain albums and often on ones I haven't touched for ages, and the possibility (probabilty) of this happening again even if I amend the files back, is just too much hassle. I won't be a slave to itunes. I tried it when I got my first ipod. I hated it then, I hate it now.

I'm now using (only second day but no problems so far) JRiver Media Jukebox, and although you have to pay for the full thing after 30 days, thus far it's looking worth it. ONE tag problem ONLY (so far), and it has some cool effects, like 3d spinning albums, that amuse a simple mind like mine!

What REALLY bugs me, and has finished me with Apple and their ipods, is that this program cannot access or recognise my ipod, being a new 5th gen nano, not because of any fault in the program (according to them), but due to the fact that Apple have "locked down" the code for the new nanos so that no other program can access it.

Now that's just annoying.

So, if you use an ipod 5th gen you're forced to use itunes?

So, I'm going back to my beloved Zen. It may not have a dock/player I can use at home, but the Media Jukebox seems to fulfil that role quite well, and the Zen is a joy to use while out and about. OK, it's bulkier than the ipod and doesn't have album art, but it's a snap to use and I have had very very few problems with it in over 3 years of use.

If anyone's looking for an alternative to itunes (and hasn't a 5th gen nano) I'd deffo recommend looking into Jriver's Media Jukebox. Sort of shows you what itunes could/should be.

To respond to zapod, thanks for the long post and yes, I tried doing all that. Worked until itunes decided it AGAIN couldn't locate particular albums, and off we went again. Not going through all that again thanks.

And to archiver, yes I totally agree. If "unlocatable" albums were even marked with a red x, or shaded out, or something, you would at least know they needed to be sorted out, but itunes tells you nothing until AFTER the sync, which you could be doing just before bed. Who wants to go retagging/locating albums at that hour? Sloppy, very sloppy.

I know a lot of people here swear by itunes, and fair play to you if it works for you. Me, I swear AT it, and I've had it at this point. Maybe it's me: maybe it doesn't like me. The feeling is mutual.

So now, I can't use a brank new ipod I paid for, nor, in effect, an expensive dock and player I really liked. But such is life. I'm not prepared to keep putting up with these problems, sorting them only to find they reoccur, ad infinitum. I'm off to better things.
I hope.

Thanks again for all your help guys, but this is, as they say, the parting of the ways. Apple goes one way, I go another, and if I ever see itunes again it'll be a thousand years too soon.

Best
TH
frasera
19-12-2009
itunes doesn't look at a folder unless you told it to:P
archiver
20-12-2009
Originally Posted by frasera:
“itunes doesn't look at a folder unless you told it to:P”

Sorry? I'm new to iTunes, so could you expand on what telling it "to:P" means?
Trollheart
20-12-2009
I believe that's a smiley (tongue sticking out)?
Trollheart
20-12-2009
Originally Posted by frasera:
“itunes doesn't look at a folder unless you told it to:P”

Well, all I can tell you is that something messed up the tags, and with albums I hadn't touched, as I said, in a while.
archiver
20-12-2009
Originally Posted by Trollheart:
“I believe that's a smiley (tongue sticking out)?”

I think you're probably right, thanks. How odd.
frasera
20-12-2009
Originally Posted by Trollheart:
“Well, all I can tell you is that something messed up the tags, and with albums I hadn't touched, as I said, in a while.”

if you check the actual file tags instead of the itunes library info data you'd probably see them unchanged. itunes doesn't change tags by itself, its a very poor auto tagging tool for alread ripped music. people use other programs to tag their files.
zapod
20-12-2009
Originally Posted by frasera:
“if you check the actual file tags instead of the itunes library info data you'd probably see them unchanged. itunes doesn't change tags by itself, its a very poor auto tagging tool for alread ripped music. people use other programs to tag their files.”

Yes, I think what happens is that the most rudementary tags are populated as CDs are ripped, using data culled from the Gracenote database. Imported (ie 'Add to Library') items are not altered as such - iTunes is able to use the tags already present to build the file structure and make it's own internal database match.

However I think that alterning the 'Artist Album' field does cause iTunes to update the file - only because the date stamp kept being updated during my little experimentation session the other night there.

Trollheart, sorry to hear you're quitting the iPod - I know there are other (better sounding) alternatives (even my old MiniDisc player sounded better), but I truly believe the overall package offered by the Touch in particular is a hard act to beat.

iTunes on the other hand - well I was using it on OS9 on the Mac - it predates the iPod believe it or not, but the basic system of organising stuff really hasn't changed that much.

What has changed, to get to version 9 are things like the iTunes Store, movies, photos, TV shows, Apple TV support, album art, coverflow, smart folders and more that weren't present in version 1.

Yes, it's a bit of a resource hog on the PC, it's much better on the Mac (funny, that) and doesn't force Quicktime on you (because it's a principal part of Mac OS already).

Anyway I'm sure you'll be happier on a device you're comfortable with.
Trollheart
22-12-2009
Thx zapod.
Yeah, I'm just about sold on the Creative X-Fi2, and I really like the way JRiver's Media Jukebox works and looks, so I think this will be the way to go.

5th gen nano going cheap, anyone?
Darthchaffinch
22-12-2009
i had all this and WMP; now use Mediamonkey and everythings cool.
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