But you dismiss the song in the LLAT for not being in the top 10 You didnt care about it's longevity or selling power, you keep saying it was a mistake by the record label to release it

Mariah is not selling much anywhere anymore and is irrelevant now. In her hayday, which is the period Leona is in now she was a worldwide artist and sold well all around the world.

What a load of tosh. She isn't fit to be spoken of in the same sentence as those artists.

Are you taking the piss?

No but that's what Simon said when this year on the x-factor. He must have know what he was talking about

Sales of Leona's new album in the UK haven't been great, JLS have outsold her 2 to 1 and are still outselling her. Personally i don't think she did herself any favours with that racism shite she was spouting a few months ago.

As a second single it was a mistake, had she released another song (namely Take A Bow or Forgive Me) I believe she would've had another Top 10 hit and then people wouldn't be starting thread saying she only had two top 20 hits.

That's the way the public determines if a song is a hit or not, which is silly but that's the way it works. A Top 10 is a hit and otherwise it's a flop. This thread is a testament to this.

Simon said she was up there with Madonna, Michael Jackson and Beyonce?

I think there are some positives from Echo so far. Mainly that it could still sell a not totally awful amount without a hit single (I expected worse sales than Battlefield). Happy was a very slow build and changed tempo too much which I think limited its success on US airplay. There are poorer songs on the album with more chance of being successful because they fit better into radio or can crossover to multiple platforms.

The success of BL, BIT and the album has put her in a position where she can make appearances on the top TV shows (Dancing With The Stars, for example) and get Grammy nominations.

So I don't think there's really any question about her having cracked America. The question would be can she sustain it after this flop lead single.

JLS are competting in a different market to Leona. Apart from Subo no other female artists this year have achieved the same or come close to what Leona sold with spirit. I think when you take into account other female artists releases i.e Cheryl and Alexandra who have sold a similar amount to Leona then what she has achieved is what could be expected in the current market. Anyone who expected more were being un-realistic imo. She is not robbie williams or take that so she doesn't have the fanbase at this point in her career to be expecting 250K + sales everytime she drops and album.

He didnt say their names but he said she was one of the biggest artists in the world and that everyone wanted her. For me those artists I mentioned are some of the biggest artists in the world so it is only right to mention Leona alongside them if Simon says she is one of the biggest artists in the world. Prephaps Simon said she was because that is how she is regarded in the industry

So in the UK, is that based on physical CD copies like in HMV etc? Does it include iTunes and Amazon?

All three are under performing. Leona's sales shouldn't be compared to Cheryl's or Alexandra's as both had massive singles while Happy has badly under performed (total sales of less than 200K I believe and a chart run on 2-4-10-15-28).

There is a good reason to believe that Leona's sales will pick up if she manages a real hit with longevity. The other two are not selling well despite massive singles. If you can't sell with a massive hit then how else can you ?

Ah so a bit of spinning from you there. You should know by now Simon is full of hyperbole. It's just his style and nobody really takes him seriously anymore.


It includes downloads and physical CDs. All sales.

Personally I dont think she is flopping in the US, I just think she is not an established artist there yet and this is reflected in her sales. Alicia Keys did not have a hit single yet she will shift about 350k albums this week in the US. The difference between Leona and Alicia is that Alicia is extablished, she has released many albums over several years with success and has been able to build up an maintian a large fanbase. One album is not enough to establish Leona in the US and the way the spirit era finished was not sufficient to generate enough hype for Leona's comeback. She can still do well but it will take time. She will not be an instant success. You can see in the past there have been many British acts, Oasis for example who have had some success in the US, but failed to follow it up. Breaking the US in reality takes many years, a lot of hard work and a lot of releases.

[quote=Ethereal;37341440]Ah so a bit of spinning from you there. You should know by now Simon is full of hyperbole. It's just his style and nobody really takes him seriously anymore.
QUOTE]

I think he is serious when it comes to Leona. She is important to him and I dont think he would Bullshit people. This is one of the only times I take him seriously.

Alicia is a completely different artist to Leona, Mariah, Shakira, Kelly, etc. She has huge critical acclaim, a 12x Grammy winner. She is not a commercial pop artist and doesn't need a huge single on Pop radio to sell. She is a critically acclaimed R&B artist with a strong commercial appeal.

Simon's main job is A+R. He's not stupid and does actually follow the music industry. He would have to be deluded to think she's massive but clearly he wants the public to believe so.

Leona had more hype than Alex and is more established in the UK than Alex, plus the music she makes appeals to a wider audience than Alex and Cheryl's so i'd expect that to cancell out the effect of Alex and Cheryl's hits. If you are a new artist you need a hit to get your foot on the ladder. Alexandra needed a hit to sell 135K in the first week, she is a new artist without a fanbase. Leona on the other hand already had some form of fanbase from the spirit era.

For "biggest artists in the world" think present tense. It's no huge exaggeration. Spirit is the best selling Sony release of the past 3 years and BL was the biggest single in the world in 2008.

The Black Eyed Peas are often described as one of the biggest acts in the world which I'd say is a fair description. Because they're selling lots of albums and having hit singles. There's a jump from that to being one of the biggest artists in the history of popular music like Michael Jackson (who, without wishing to be too blunt, is no longer of this world anyway). Someone like Madonna is bigger in profile than she is in sales these days.

I don't think of Paul McCartney as one of the biggest artists in the world right now. His albums don't set the world alight. But he is one of the biggest artists ever.

You've got to differentiate here.

I thought he was telling the truth. I thought she might be regarded in this way by the industry. But now I think about I think that Simon and Clive Davis might believe that. It would explain their thinking re happy. To mean it seemed like they thought she could put anything out and the album would be flying off the shelves like it did in the spirit era because it was Leona. There were clearly much better songs on Echo, yet they choose that as the lead single.

So whose level would I be more correct in putting her on do you think??

Err, do what Lady GaGa and Beyonce have done and build up album sales gradually? Gaga's album did not have one week where it sold more than 50k despite huge single sales initially. Alex, Cheryl and Leona all have platinum albums off the back of one song, that's not underperforming. And taking Susan out of the equation, Alex is the best-selling debut British female artist this year. She is thrashing the likes of Little Boots and Pixie Lott in sales, so if she is under-performing then God help the rest of them.

Yeah but they only had hit singles to rely, not hit singles and 2 performances on the UK's biggest TV show!!!

It didn't do much for Will Young, Leon Jackson or Same Difference. Rihanna's performance did little for album sales and she is one of the biggest global acts at the moment. Little Boots had the highly prestigous Sound of 2009 behind her, and Pixie Lott has won various awards. Both have been very highly critically acclaimed. Some might say that is more important than the tag of x-factor contestant once they are out there competing in the real world.