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difference between 1080i/1080p
Keefy-boy
18-12-2009
i have a 1080p capable tv and a blu ray player but between them is an av amp that will pass 1080i but not 1080p due to it's age.

been watching blu-rays at 1080i and it's pretty good, my question is would 1080p be so much better that it would justify the expense of a new av amp?
Gadget Guy
18-12-2009
Wouldn't it be best to plug the bluray player direct into the tv and judge for yourself. Personally I think you would be hard pressed to tell the difference and you can always send the audio through the amp anyway. Save the cost of a new amp.
chrisjr
18-12-2009
They are the same resolution. It is just the way the picture data is passed to the TV that differs.

1080i divides the picture frame into two blocks of 540 lines each which it sends to the TV one after the other. The TV has to receive both blocks then interlace them together to reconstruct the frame so it can display it.

1080p sends all 1080 lines in one block.

So you may not notice any difference in the detail in the picture but there are other effects that can make an i picture look slightly worse than a p picture.

A quick and easy way to see if you can detect any difference is to connect the Blu-Ray direct to the TV and set it to 1080p. Then play the same disk at 1080i

Another reason for changing the amp though may be the sound side rather than the video. If it can't deal with 1080i then more than likely it can't deal with the newer audio formats available on Blu-Ray. So that could be an additional excuse for that letter to Santa
grahamlthompson
18-12-2009
Originally Posted by Keefy-boy:
“i have a 1080p capable tv and a blu ray player but between them is an av amp that will pass 1080i but not 1080p due to it's age.

been watching blu-rays at 1080i and it's pretty good, my question is would 1080p be so much better that it would justify the expense of a new av amp?”

Are you sure it won't pass 1080p most amps even though they can't scale to 1080p will pass a 1080p signal in to it's hdmi output. It would be harder for an amp to delinterlace 1080p to 1080i than simply pass it on. Basically if you can get a picture through the amp it's likely to be the same as the one that's being input.
Keefy-boy
18-12-2009
Originally Posted by grahamlthompson:
“Are you sure it won't pass 1080p most amps even though they can't scale to 1080p will pass a 1080p signal in to it's hdmi output. It would be harder for an amp to delinterlace 1080p to 1080i than simply pass it on. Basically if you can get a picture through the amp it's likely to be the same as the one that's being input.”

if i set the output of the bd player to 1080p the colours and picture are completely distorted.

the amp is a yamaha rxv-1600, about 3 and a half years old. it's supposed to support hdmi 1.1 which does include 1080p. yamaha tech support were unable to give me a definitive answer either way, but it doesn't seem to work!

i haven't yet connected the bd player directly to the tv, which may seem an obvious thing to do, but it means removing the av amp from a built-in-wall cabinet to get to the cables, but i guess i will have to bite that bullet.

many thanks for all the comments so far!
Nigel Goodwin
18-12-2009
You might try mentioning the make and model of your TV, are you SURE it's 1080P? - "Full HD" doesn't mean it accepts 1080P, it needs to say "Full HD 1080P" on the front.
Keefy-boy
18-12-2009
Originally Posted by Nigel Goodwin:
“You might try mentioning the make and model of your TV, are you SURE it's 1080P? - "Full HD" doesn't mean it accepts 1080P, it needs to say "Full HD 1080P" on the front.”

it's a brand new samsung led/lcd it is definitely 1080p capable!
Nigel Goodwin
18-12-2009
Originally Posted by Keefy-boy:
“it's a brand new samsung led/lcd it is definitely 1080p capable!”

No problem then, I was suspecting it might be a similar age to the amp.
Chris Frost
18-12-2009
Originally Posted by Keefy-boy:
“i haven't yet connected the bd player directly to the tv, which may seem an obvious thing to do, but it means removing the av amp from a built-in-wall cabinet to get to the cables, but i guess i will have to bite that bullet.”

Well there is more than one way to skin a cat.

Just get an extra HDMI cable to make a direct connection from the BR player to the TV. That way there's no need to do anything at the back of the amp.
captainmccoy
18-12-2009
I have a Panasonic 37" and the difference between HD broadcasts at 1080i and Bluray at 1080p are clearly visible - although I doubt the lower bitrates and new supposedly more efficient encoders of the tv channels helps them
Deacon1972
18-12-2009
Originally Posted by Keefy-boy:
“if i set the output of the bd player to 1080p the colours and picture are completely distorted.

the amp is a yamaha rxv-1600, about 3 and a half years old. it's supposed to support hdmi 1.1 which does include 1080p. yamaha tech support were unable to give me a definitive answer either way, but it doesn't seem to work!

i haven't yet connected the bd player directly to the tv, which may seem an obvious thing to do, but it means removing the av amp from a built-in-wall cabinet to get to the cables, but i guess i will have to bite that bullet.

many thanks for all the comments so far!”

The Yamaha RXV-1600 only accepts 1080i via HDMI.

For 1080p resolution you will need to connect directly to the TV, the downside is you will lose multichannel PCM (HD audio) from Bluray as you will need to connect player -> amp via optical for the audio.
Fatwaz
18-12-2009
Originally Posted by captainmccoy:
“I have a Panasonic 37" and the difference between HD broadcasts at 1080i and Bluray at 1080p are clearly visible - although I doubt the lower bitrates and new supposedly more efficient encoders of the tv channels helps them”

you're right about bitrates,a bluray even at 108oi will have a better pic than hd broadcast at same resolution cos of the bandwidth.try watching a bluray at 1080i and 1080p,if you can spot the difference i applaud your fantastic eyesight
captainmccoy
18-12-2009
Originally Posted by Fatwaz:
“you're right about bitrates,a bluray even at 108oi will have a better pic than hd broadcast at same resolution cos of the bandwidth.try watching a bluray at 1080i and 1080p,if you can spot the difference i applaud your fantastic eyesight”


Thanks for the applause.
I tried out 1080i from the Bluray player to the tv and 1080p was better - not by a huge amount but you could see it

Mind you , I've always had an eye for quality .
There are people who cannot tell VHS LP from SP , NTSC from PAL ,composite from RGB or whether something was made on tape or film - although for the latter we go back to the pre-digital age before the filmising and other video trickery arrived
frasera
18-12-2009
depends if your tv is good at deinterlacing. if its a 24p source that was interlaced correctly then it can be reconstructed by the tv to 1080p. course it assumes your tv can do it without botching it up
grahamlthompson
18-12-2009
Originally Posted by captainmccoy:
“Thanks for the applause.
I tried out 1080i from the Bluray player to the tv and 1080p was better - not by a huge amount but you could see it

Mind you , I've always had an eye for quality .
There are people who cannot tell VHS LP from SP , NTSC from PAL ,composite from RGB or whether something was made on tape or film - although for the latter we go back to the pre-digital age before the filmising and other video trickery arrived”

It's bound to be better but you are not comparing like with like. The video data on the bluray disc is 1080p24. To watch it using 1080i the player has to interlace it and increase the frame rate to 25 frames per second which is bound to degrade the quality somewhat.
bobcar
18-12-2009
Originally Posted by grahamlthompson:
“It's bound to be better but you are not comparing like with like. The video data on the bluray disc is 1080p24. To watch it using 1080i the player has to interlace it and increase the frame rate to 25 frames per second which is bound to degrade the quality somewhat.”

I thought Blu-ray players went to 1080i/p60 if the TV wouldn't accept 1080p24, my Sony BDP-S350 certainly does. This will not increase the video speed but will introduce judder.

It shouldn't in principle degrade the quality but it depends completely on the TV being able to recognise that the source was originally progressive. If so it can do a simple weave de-interlacing and nothing is lost - mind you this is a big if. (I'm comparing 1080p60 to 1080i60 not 1080p24).
Mandarintje
19-12-2009
The one thing I suspect...but I can only compare on my old full HD TV that accepted 1080i or less to my new 1080P set.... was perhaps the motion. I'm under the impression that picture quality would be pretty much the same between the two, but that the motion was disturbed with the 1080i.

The way I came to this conclusion is that my BD's (same BD player) looked shuddery on the "old" TV with slow horizontal panning. But it could have just been a rubbish 4000 euro TV that deserves a swift back-hander.
bobcar
19-12-2009
Originally Posted by Mandarintje:
“The one thing I suspect...but I can only compare on my old full HD TV that accepted 1080i or less to my new 1080P set.... was perhaps the motion. I'm under the impression that picture quality would be pretty much the same between the two, but that the motion was disturbed with the 1080i.

The way I came to this conclusion is that my BD's (same BD player) looked shuddery on the "old" TV with slow horizontal panning. But it could have just been a rubbish 4000 euro TV that deserves a swift back-hander.”

There is judder associated with 1080i60 (or 1080p60) when showing a 1080p24 source so if your new TV properly accepts 1080p24 then it will not have this (note the 24 is important rather than the p).

Having said that p24 is not fast enough in itself so will cause problems though it is as good as you get for standard films.
grahamlthompson
19-12-2009
Originally Posted by bobcar:
“I thought Blu-ray players went to 1080i/p60 if the TV wouldn't accept 1080p24, my Sony BDP-S350 certainly does. This will not increase the video speed but will introduce judder.

It shouldn't in principle degrade the quality but it depends completely on the TV being able to recognise that the source was originally progressive. If so it can do a simple weave de-interlacing and nothing is lost - mind you this is a big if. (I'm comparing 1080p60 to 1080i60 not 1080p24).”

You are right of course, but the point is still true you can't say 1080i is visibly worse than 1080p on any TV by simply playing a bluray on it set to 1080i.
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