Originally Posted by Listentome:
“You're smarter than me then, because I've completely lost myself.”
I could be humouring you
LOl no...I do get what you mean...I had gone off on a lecture because in the past people have tried to say that their views on certain episodes and music or films is objective because they found something they didn't like about it, therefore they were being fair, (which really doesn't make sense, because surely if you dislike something, doesn't mean it is a measurement of quality)...hence why I thought that is what you were saying....
Originally Posted by Shinyteapot:
“While I agree RTD is very good at creating and developing characters, I don't understand the whole 'plot vs characters' argument. It is possible to do both. That's not to say masses of technobabble are required- the nanogenes in TEC/TDD didn't require much explanation to work- just that interesting character development doesn't mean you need to forego a good plot and resolution that makes sense.
NB- I am not suggesting that none of RTDs plot resolutions make sense! Some I like, some I don't, same goes for other writers too.”
You see this is the main problem I have when people compare how RTD doesn't resolves plots very well, and then they use an example of Moff, to show how its done. But really what is the difference between Donna flicking a couple of switches that were shown earlier on as very much part of the Crucible, and were used by the Daleks themselves to control the stealing of the planets, and saying tecnobabble that she is finally able to understand with a Time Lord brain, to The Doctor waving his fingers about in the air and saying that he is emailing an upgrade (when nothing of such was suggested previously that could be done), or the fact that he hoped the nanogenes would be able to recognise the DNA of Nancy, or that he hoped that Jack would save them from the bomb. All those things are character things, in the same way that the Daleks were destroyed in JE...its not about the deafeating of the monsters...its about everyone living just this once, its about reuniting of a son and his mother, its about a con man doing a brave thing. If you think about it plot wise...they are all big huge holes, that are not very good resolutions at all...but the reason they work so well is because it was written for those character moments. And you'll find that with every Moff story too, all his "resolutions!" are out of the blue stuff, he may introduce something like a horse...but then he makes it go through a bl**dy glass mirror later on to save the day...heck if you try to think about how Reinette moved the Fireplace, and yet it somehow still stayed connected, and all it needed was a bit of a Sonic action to work...you will have a long day trying to explain the sceince behind all that.
I love JE resolution, and I love TEC/TDD resolution too...but if I decided to myself that I won't like anything if the plot resoltion isn't about the plot resoltion, the science or whatever....I'd never watch Doctor Who...because there isn't one story I have seen, classic Who included, that focuses so much on that...plot holes are all over the place.
Originally Posted by Big Steve:
“In regards to RTD I always have taken his stories as they come. For example he writes some great stuff (Turn Left, utopia Children of Earth ect) and sometimes he write's a complete turd (Love & Monsters is perhaps the worse bit of TV I have ever seen)”
Oh I loved Love and Monsters...still do!!!
Originally Posted by Rooks:
“The bolded bit is the important bit and we'll never know. Had Steven Moffat been in charge from day one we might have had the same or greater success or we might have bombed in the first season. It's an irrelevance as it can never be answered (not without a Tardis anyway)
What I do find interesting is the increased number of people happy to see the back of RTD. It seems to be the case that once an actor, writer or any member of the Doctor Who staff leaves the show they get branded as the enemy. People may not like my views on the show but I've at least been consistant in my dislike of RTD.”
It becomes relevent when people say that "Oh it would have happend anyway...so no point in thinking RTD has anything to do with it"....as there was every chance that it could have bombed as badly as Demons did...but what we have proof in front of us is a show that will soon being going into new hands because the RTD era worked for many...
And an increased number of people happy to see the back of RTD??? really??? I have been on this forum and a couple of others...and on general blogs and review sites....to me its seems usually the same voices...that some have probably been there since day one of Rose airing....
But what proves that people are happy to carry on watching an RTD story are the viewers out there...not forum members.....
