Yeah the photo I posted was doctored but the one everyone is drooling over ([http://images2.fanpop.com/images/photos/3300000/Lady-GaGa-lady-gaga-3355925-1600-1200.jpg[/url]) is a complete natural, undoctored photo taken on her mum's old 8mm right?

Get serious the only doctored pictures of Gaga are the ones she puts on her album covers. Similar to your argument I have seen her several times on TV, in mags & she rarely looks as good as her promotional pictures.

In fact I nominate http://images2.fanpop.com/images/pho...-1600-1200.jpg for the most air brushed picture of all time.

Correct.


I've no idea what that's supposed to be, because you haven't linked properly.


Of course she has album covers photoshopped, like every other artist out there.


And I'm a close follower of her music, and none of the pre-vintage GaGa stuff looks like that. Someone's been busy with the Photoshop liquify tool in the picture you posted.

Wrong. She can appear aloof, friendly, disinterested or sweet, depending on how she feels. It's all part of the chameleon like persona of Lady GaGa. I imagine we've all seen the Jonathan Ross interview from last year. Well, here's another interview:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XB766ZajaLo


Lazy, simplistic music tribalism. All pop acts do not operate in the same way, any more than rock/hip-hop/metal/country/classical acts do.


You don't sound the least bit like a feminist, because in a thread where it was asked why people obsess about her looks, you went ahead and attacked her based on them.

Since you've brought it up, she dresses sexy in unusual ways that aren't supposed to be conventionally attractive to men - I've lost count of the number of times I've heard guys say: "she's got a great body, but she's too weird for me."

Furthermore, you've fallen into the extremely sexist line of thinking that when a woman dresses sexy it's purely for the titillation of men. Believe it or not, the world does not revolve around what men think. Sometimes people want to dress in a particular way for their own sake out of a sense of self-expression, be it sexual or otherwise. "My body, my choice" is feminist, and whatever Victorian attitude you use to justify describing women who show skin as "slags" is pure misogyny.

I like a few of her songs, Again Again and Speechless are really good, if really similar- whereas I'm not hugely keen on the rest of her stuff.
She has an interesting voice, it's just a shame she uses it for tacky rubbish like 'Alejandro' and 'Just Dance' and I also find her current image quite contrived. Less than a year ago she released 'Just Dance' yet now she's massively pretentious. How you go from making generic club pop to pretending that 'I wanna take a ride on your disco stick' is some kind of massively deep lyric about modern sexuality or something I don't know.
She does have talent, a few of her songs are quite well written, she's like Madonna/Geri Halliwell in that she can self promote like mad and she's quite good on the piano, but at the same time ripping off Bowie, Blondie and the Beatles is hardly as original as people seem to think she is...
She's not ugly though, she's not particularly pretty, but she's not ugly- she does seem to have had a lot of work done.
It is funny though that people always use the same photo of her to prove she's beautiful, everyone has good angles!

So basically she doesn't have her own personality then? She is acting a part, for some reason, and not displaying some kind of chameleon like personality.

Check that interview you posted, she starts speaking in an Australian accent in some parts! So now you'll tell me that's part of her ultra ego too eh?


Gaga, as she prefers to be called, claims to have been influenced by Bowie and that she grew up listening to Glam Rock. So why is her music is R'n'B then?

It is obvious that her songs are produced for the R'n'B market so either she's sacrificing her desire to make Glam Rock or, as I suspect, her management know what sells.


I'm not attacking her, I'm sympathising with her. Having to dress/act like a slut to make up for losses in natural beauty. It happens all the time with young women and is basically the female equibelent of Nepoleon Complex in men that makes short people act "hard".


Not being funny but when a man says "great body" all it means it "she's not fat".


Nothing sexist about it, I'm talking facts here. So you seriously believe that when a woman dresses "sexy" it is totally unrelated to to impressing men? How?

If it makes them feel better, it's only because they are getting more attention...from men. I've never heard of a woman putting on make up and getting all glammed and staying at home.


No it's not though and I actually love the fact you've let 'misogyny' plant the placebo in women's minds that dressing like a prostitute is about self powerment.

Don't you see, that attitude suits mysogiysts who would rather everyone dressed like Gaga.

Yes, it's all part of the persona, and no, she doesn't reveal her real self. Everything is an ever-changing facade.


The only thing that's obvious is that you don't have the foggiest clue what you're talking about. You don't even know what R n' B is. R&B is Mariah Carey, Beyonce, R Kelly, Alicia Keys, Maxwell, Erykah Badu. Lady GaGa's music is primarily electropop.

She is clearly influenced by David Bowie's image in the Ziggy Stardust era, and you can hear that influence in the descending basslines and chord sequences of songs like Speechless and Brown Eyes. Her live performances are often rocked up. Lady GaGa is also into Madonna and Michael Jackson, and is an avowed lover of pop music. It is possible to love both.


There you go again with the misogyny. "Slut", "slag", "prostitute" - all because of the way a woman dresses. Absolutely disgusting. And you really believe the way you think has any relation to feminism?

Women do get glammed up in the company of one another when men aren't around. I've dressed up with my female friends lots of times, and it's purely for the fun of dressing up.

The funny thing is the double standard. You see, if we were talking about a male rockstar who performed topless, perhaps wearing only shorts or tight jeans, no-one would even comment on it. But when a woman does something similar, comments are replete with sexist slurs from misogynists like yourself.


What part of "my body, my choice" don't you get? It means you don't have to conform to what other people think, whether they're prudes, perverts, or those in between.

It means you dress in a manner which you're comfortable with, regardless of whether that's a burka or a stripper outfit, and to hell with what other people want you to wear.

Snozzcumber, great posts.

Thanks.

Seriously you should listen to yourself. You make her sound like some kind of Prophet.

By the way she has revealed her "real self" numerous times. Just search Google images for " Lady Gaga's Bulge"


You mean R'n'B Is only made by black people and white people make pop right? That's what your list seems to imply. Anyway, her first song was "Just Dance" which features Akon and is described by wiki as "An up-tempo dance song, with influences of R&B and lyrically speaks about being intoxicated at a club".

Whether the song, this was her debut and should've set her stall out as an artist, is R'n'B at it's heart is one thing but it has certainly been heavily inspired by R'n'B/Urban culture. The subject matter is pure R'n'B for a start. And when she's not working with Akon, she's working with Timbaland.

Her musical style is no different to Rihanna IMO who is deemed as R'n'B. How "Please don't stop the music" is no different to most of Gaga's works and yet is on practically every R'n'B collection last year.


Yeah but why release poppy, dancy tracks if that's not what you want to perform at your concerts and when will she release one of these rock songs as a single? In the interview which YOU posted she clearly states how she was influenced by Glam Rock and not once does she mentioned being influenced by Pop.

She may like Madonna and Jackson but what artist doesn't? There are certain legends in music that you have to like and can't criticise (unless your name's Lilly Allen). For example I though Paul McCartney was rubbish on X-Factor but Cowell etc go on like it was the greatest thing ever just because he's Paul McCartney. Jacko and Madge fall into this same category....



I see you missed "dresses like a" before all those words, hmmm. Saying a particular woman (not the entire gender) dress like a slut/prostitute isn't the same as me saying she is one and not is it an attack on women as a gender either.

You say I don't know what R'n'B is, well I'm gonna throw it out there and say you don't know what misogyny is.


Past the age of 14 though?


There's no double standard, If such an artist existed I would be just as critical, the only real difference would be I'd get accused of Jealousy for saying anything. Take Phillip Olivier (Tin head from Brookside) I personally think he's a crap actor who is only still getting jobs because his "pecks" are appealing to the mainly female audiences of the things he does.



It's also one of the biggest loads of self-promoting and yet deluded mindsets in history. It's like when Goths say they dress like they do because they don't want to conform to society and yet they are part of one of the most oversubscribed sub-cultures around.

It's fashion, which is driven by the desire to be liked/admired and nothing to do with Gaga having some in-built random clothes selector.

I have no tattoos, no piercings, no plastic surgery, dressed by Next/M&S and yet I bet because of all that I'm more unique that Gaga is.

Well said. You summed up exactly what I was thinking.

http://celebrities.ninemsn.com.au/im...0209_gaga2.jpg

Some old pictures of her pre Lady GaGa, she's far from ugly.

she came across really well on the x factor i thought. i like her music but theres nothing really that different and i stopped reading a lot of stories about 'outrageous' things she had said by February of this year

No, she's just a fun, interesting, talented pop musician.


Nice. Not content with the misogyny, we're moving into intersex/transphobia now. Maybe you could round it off with some good-old fashioned racism or homophobia now?


Wikipedia can be edited by anyone - you could have written that for all I know. There are plenty of examples of white R&B singers. Jon B, Justin Timberlake, and Robin Thicke, for example. Don't Stop the Music, Disturbia and Umbrella are all dance-pop tracks.

R&B - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PWrT1dWagqk

Dance-Pop - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2_hbz7XMah0

Come back when you can tell the difference between genres.


Because she likes both, as I've said. Speechless is due for a release, and it's not a dance song. People don't have to be restricted to a single genre if they don't want to.


It's one interview. In other interviews she says she's into MJ and Madonna. The Madonna influences are obvious too.


Yes.


IF such an artist existed? How about 50 Cent or Axl Rose of Guns n' Roses? You may pretend that you'd criticise them as often for their overtly sexual styles, but somehow I doubt you really do.


"Dresses like a" doesn't magically alter the ugliness of your thinking. I know what misogyny is - the ideas you're expressing are a stark example of it. You are exhibiting a hatred of women through your contempt and disdain for female self-expression through clothing and fashion.


Fashion is not purely driven by the desire to be liked or admired, it is also driven by self-expression. The difference between your typical Goth mentality and yours is that they don't expect people to dress like them. You abuse people for the way they choose to dress.

Now, seeing as I doubt I'll be changing your views any time soon, and I've shown them up for what they are, I'm done here.

P.S. Thanks, Aenima.

In your opinion...



I'm actually quite offended by the accusations you make but then it seems standard DS policy to accuse anyone you don't agree with of being sexist/racist/homophobic.

I quite clearly corrected you on what Misogyny is and yet you ignore that and carry on as if "my misogyny" is established fact.

I obviously need to give you some clearer guidance..

Misogyny is the hatred of women, so how has me making a comment on ONE woman's style is anyway me saying I hate all women? If you are offended by terms like "dresses like slut" etc then you could claim sexism at best but you'd still be wrong...but at least closer.

Again "transphobia", if that word even exists, would imply I hate transsexuals yet in fact all I did was make a joke about the common Lady GaGa rumour that she is one.

Basically, it's the same as me saying "Graham Norton is gay" and being accused of homophobia a result.

Point me to where I said I hate women or hate transsexuals please...oh that's right I didn't.

I said Gaga dresses like a prostitute and made a joke concerning her gender but both are aimed at HER and not the minorities I quoted.

I will apologise though, I will apologise to Prostitutes and Transsexuals for comparing them to Lady Gaga.


To a point I agree but the Music industry doesn’t usually concur.

Rihanna gets nominated for R'n'B awards despite being mostly dance/ballard based and I would rate most slow songs produced by black people as ballards to be honest. If you must know, the fact what you posted gets called "R'n’B" annoys me as R'n'B is “Rhythm and Blues” and how is any of that like this......????

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zYrVw...eature=related



I can that's the problem, Beyonce makes ballards and has never made a song about how hard her life is and yet it gets called R'n'B...why? Because today R'nB essentially means music produced or performed by black people and has nothing do with the original genre of music.

That is why I claimed Gaga is R'n'B, not by my standards as no true R'n'B artists exist nowadays but by the industry standard explained above that is her music is produced by black people so therefore it iss R'n'B by how the industry view it.

Want proof, Lady Gaga was nominated for Best International Act at this year’s MOBOs (Music of Black Origin) so they obviously consider her "modern" R'n'B. But then you knew that anyway seeing as you’re such a big fan.

One can only presume you wrote thousands of letters to the organisers of the MOBOs to tell them that GaGa does not do music of black origin and how misogynistic there were for nominating her.


You’ve ignored my question, I didn’t ask you when she’d bring out a non-dance song, I asked when she was gonna release a Glam Rock record...Speechless isn’t it.


Another point you’ve missed, Nearly ALL artist claim to like Madonna and Jacko it isn’t original. I would actually have more respect if she didn’t like the obvious big artist that everyone likes/claims to be influenced by.


Hate 50 Cent, knob head who acts harder than he actually is and probably the most untalented rapper I’ve ever seen. I wouldn’t say his style is overtly sexual, more typical cliché rapper.

Guns ‘n’ Roses are OK but you’re talking about a band that did what they did when it was at least original (doubt they’d do it now) and neither did they have “fit bodies” as a girl would say so in no way could you be cynical about their motives.


It changes the context which is quite important considering how you try a twist things.


Again, I have slagged off Phillip Olivier and now 50 Cent so why is my distain “reserved” for women?
Anybody, man woman or animal who I feel is fake/cheap will receive more than a spoonful of cynicism from me, it has nothing do to with the fact GaGa is a woman.

It seems your brain works like this..

Man makes negative comment about person...person is female..therefore person making comment is a misogynist. I believe that’s called a logical fallacy.


Self expression, LOL. Well GaGa looks more like she’s using David Bowie’s Self Expression rather than her own, which I suspect she doesn’t have. So guyliner and flat peak caps that Goths and Urban types wear respectively are “self expression” are they?

GaGa even admits she takes her style from Bowie so to start implying she has “self expression” and that she’s some some of trend setter are off the mark IMO.



You haven’t shown nothing up and self congratulating yourself on your argument is a bit sad really.

At the end of the day you like GaGa as a person and I don’t but the fact I don’t seems to anger you so much that you have to accuse me of being racist/sexist/”transphobic” etc. I’m surprised you haven’t accused me of homophobia just because I don’t like her and she does campaigning for the gay community.

Fair enough, you think Lady Gaga is a trend-setting, musical genius who writes all her own songs and dresses how she likes. I think she is fame-seeking, attention seeker who gets credited on songs other people have 90% written and is doing Pop/Dance etc just because it...
a) Is the most commercially viable form of music
b) Appeals more to the Gay community who made her famous in the first place.

She exploits the gay scene on one hand for their money but then hangs around with rockers and like Rock because it’s “cooler”


That’s my opinion, but please don’t take what I think about her and try and turn into an attack on me so you can paint me out to have some kind of “ism”.

God if she wasn't a chart topping artist the girl would be locked in a mental institution, she is crazy and has some serious problems she needs to address, if that woman isn't an advert for someone in desperate need of some help then I don't know what is. Can't stand her music or her 'look' because she reminds me of a flea ridden dog that needs someone decent to look after it.

See, Again comments about her looking like a flea ridden dog reinforce my original point.

Whats so bad about not looking perfect?

And btw I don't think she has had any plastic surgery

And comments about her looking like a 'slut'. A slut is someone who has sex with a lot of people not someone who dresses in skimpy cool clothes like Gaga. And she has been so busy lately I doubt she has much time for sex! Besides a lot of her fans are either female or gay so I doubt she is doing it to please men!

People should look at themselves before they go picking on others. I dont think she looks like a man and that must surly be hurtful to her to hear those things. I seen a video on the net claiming she had a willy and that you could see it when she got out the car.

Lady Gaga is only original and quirky to those who have no proper knowledge of what has happened in the music scene in the last 30 years.

as far as the success of her music goes I can only attribute that to savage & relentless marketing campaign done by most likely her record company, I remember over a year ago nobody here had even heard of Lady Gaga and yet there were adverts about her everywhere.

Really? I think the success of her music is down to having a great pop record. People I know don't really want to like Bad Romance, but they find it so damn catchy! Shes had 3 songs in the Top 20 2009 singles, 3 number ones and the second biggest selling album of the year. You can't just put all that down to a "savage & relentless marketing campaign". She's playing to arenas already and has got millions of fans around the world. She's cemented herself in the music industry now and I doubt she will be going anywhere soon.

Personally i think Lady Gaga is great. I like the fact she doesn't come across as a girly girl which also helps. She's not afraid to be wild then reserved. She just literally has been handed the lucky bag with the full set of tools. She's been very lucky and i hope she continues to succeed.

Shakira is quirky, Lady Gaga is just weird

The production is that part that makes an artist stand out with popular music. Even if it is subconcious. If everyone sang against a piano or guitar track, and had no processing on their vocals it'd be a very bland music industry.

It's about creating an atmosphere by placing and using different sounds in the mix. Creating parts that you wont hear first time, but after a few listens you'll hear it. IMO the sign of a well produced track is one where you are always hearing new parts

Production is as an important part as the "look" or the lyrics or anything else.

Now lets go back 30 years and repeat the same sentence about the 30 years before that.

I can't believe people are using the same notes that were used hundreds of years ago!

Music evolves, if you look through the classical music periods in history you see an evolution.

The PianoForte changed music just as much as Antare's AutoTune has

I understand what production is

But I think if you have catchy songs- the differance between good and great production is negligable to most people.

Unless the production was really awful, songs like Just Dance and Pokerface were bound to be popular.