It's not like they don't have talent. Usually these people are good at singing or dancing, but can't lyrics, play instruments or compose music.
There are also plenty of people who can write songs but can't sing, and people who can compose music but nothing else (and those people who don't want to be famous - and they are a lot of them).
A friend of mine writes songs for a record company (can't sing) and loves her job; and is glad that competitions such as X Factor brings more people into the industry which for her dominated by Americans.
Ideally when you put these talents together you get amazing music.

And the award for post of the year goes to...

Completely agree

It's about the music having 'soul' and judging the music on merit, not on something designed to appeal and make money.

The old "popular doesn't mean right'' applies.

So artists who write their own songs aren't out to make money at all?

I hate the old cliche that any rock/indie artist is "doing it for the music" and not the cash

I think its because the shows are rubbish. The way the early stages are conducted unfair due to the way in which people who cannot sing are put through to "sing" for the judges when they are appalling and are only there to be mocked!

Cheryl Cole said Joe McBlueberry "deserved" to be number 1 because he'd worked hard for 6 months to win X-Factor.

On that basis, if he "deserves" to be number 1 after 6 month on a talent show, what does a band like RATM deserve after working hard over 18 years to get where they are today?

Manufactured talent is basically a vehicle for making the likes of Cowell & Walsh money, which is why it's so bland - it's mass appeal muzak with no soul.

OP, who has released any songs your friend has written?

Of course they're out to make money, but by writing their own stuff they form their own style of music, that's why rock music has so many genres and sub-genres. All boy bands stick to the tried and trusted bland ballard formula and are pretty much interchangeable for that reason.

manufactureds fine, i dont think that many people have a problem with it. i think the main problem is the x factor monsters - i was getting abit sick of people saying 'joe deserves the number 1'. he doesnt deserve it more than anyone else does! infact half the artists in the chart work 10 times harder than he ever will. makes me feel quite sick infact...

Its because it is sick...

You mean to tell me Jedward had talent?

People who come from the Xfactor type shows, sell their lives and souls to the industry, become people they are not, wouldn't be famous of it wasn't for being manufactured. There is no issue with people writing other people songs or music. There is a problem when the manufactured lot can't bare their own tunes and actually have a different music taste to what they are sining and being sold out to do.
A manufactured person/ group, only speaks with permission and lives a life that is sold to them in order to be famous. They haven't had to work hard to get where they are, they are placed there.

I'm not talking about popular really, but talking about manufactured artists in general. Take Lady GaGa, she can write songs for Interscope and sing quite well, but isn't good at writing music - but she has the creative hub of Haus of Gaga behind her.

I'm also not talking about RATM vs Joe here, just the assumption music that's manufactured is automatically bad. You could easily call a writer, composer, producer and singer: a band - only difference is that the anyone could slot in each to suite the song. I'm especially aiming at people calling it talentless.

its mostly about people having to think that the music they like is better than the music that other people like.

for example, i have excellent taste in music, what with my Throwing Muses, Mystic Valley Band and Noah and the Whale CDs, but anyone with any Girls Aloud or Sugababes is a musically tone deaf fool.

weirdly, i have all of the above in my library.

go figure.

Iain

i'd agree with that.

arguably some of the most manufactured music of recent (well, back in the 80s!) were the early singles by FGTH - produced to within an inch of their lives, but they sonically they sounded amazing, and still do.

or the 12" mix of slave to the rythm. the story went that they didn't do a full album, as they blew the entire budget producing that one track. you can absolutely believe it listening to it - every little sonic nuance is perfect, and it sounds amazing. but again, completely manufactured in the studio.

Iain

This answers Stiffy's question. I'm not a close friend of her and she's not allowed to say anything about actual work.

sorry, but i would disagree that people like Will Young, Leona Lewis or Girls Aloud don't work extremely hard, or have necessarily become 'people they are not'.

as for being manufactured - what does that really even mean?

there's no doubt, surely, that someone like Leona Lewis has an amazing voice. that isn't something that has been manufactured. she really does have an amazing voice.

Iain

i would say they deserve to have a string of big selling albums, and sellout tours. which they have.

hurray!

what's with all this McBlueberry crap anyway? isn't it traditional for stuff like that to at least be some sort of pun? but all that is is another word that sounds a bit like his name. not exactly comedy genius, is it?

Iain

She isn't allowed to tell anyone what songs she wrote?
Doesn't she get a writers credit?

The problem is when you see smaller bands/artists busting their backsides for years upon end, but getting no luck, yet you get someone who has never seen an instrument in their lives or written a song but do a great Karaoke of Tina Turner getting a record deal before the musician on the road.

If we're not careful the current era could end up being remembered as just the era that covered other songs and never gave new original artists a chance to break out. That's my "Beef" with Manufactured popstars.

Cue the angry X-factor Mob calling for my head

because a manufactured act isnt an "act" at all...its a figurehead with slight vocal ability, for record companies to channel company produced music through with a specific image etc.
An act write and produce their own music, and can perform it live to high standard.
So manufactured "acts" do nothing in comparison, and do not deserve the success they achieve.

i wouldn't call for your head, but we could have a pop quiz!

1. how many successful artists has TXF launched into the music industry in the last five years?

2. how many successful artists have appeared on the music scene in the last five years that have had nothing whatsoever to do with TXF?

there's loads of great music out there - this idea that its being overwhelmed or drowned out by XF contestants isn't really the case at all.

Iain

leona Lewis is a good example - there is no doubt that she is a hard worker, but Snow Patrol work harder, yet she got the same if not more attention when she covered Run.

She didn't go through all the time in the studio that Snow Patrol did, writing and rewriting it, learning it then relearning it differently to play live, working with the producer to get it just right,. Yes, she did a bit of that when she recorded it but nothing like the effort that Snow Patrol put in.

But with a bigger marketing budget, Snow Patrol don't get half the credit. Everyone knows it's a good song, but when people credit Leona Lewis for it rather than Snow Patrol, it's hard to not dislike manufactured acts.

I could travel around the country singing in grotty pubs and the like, but it doesn't make me a better singer than those who go on TV talent shows.

I couldn;t care if people are manafactured. If the songs are goods, then to me that is all that matters.

Exactly my point