Karoake vs Actual Musical Ability.

I enjoy X Factor as much as the next person, but I don't watch it expecting it to produce anything of lasting musical worth. It's not set up to usher talent through. It's almost a bit like a lottery.

Do they work harder, or do they just do different work? Leona probably puts a bit more choreography into live performances and videos than Snow Patrol do, for example.

Iain

Knowing the efforts of both acts, they definitely do put in far more work, but more importantly for a longer period of time. Their fanbase has to grow organically without such a big marketing budget behind it, and to guarantee that the band has longevity, so they spend years getting to the same stage as an act like Leona. these bands believe in their music so they put in the hard slog - and then you see someone with a big budget swoop in and take the credit for their work.
Don't get me wrong, all these artists work hard, but I think there is a huge difference in what is considered hard work for some of these acts.

Exactly the TRUE music fan has a very wide slection of generes and time periods. I have weird obscure indie bands like Asobi Seksu, Bon Iver, Portishead, Sneaky Sound System, Cat Power to commercial acts like Sugababes and Mini Viva.

I have music going all the way from Nancy Sinatra to the current top 40 in terms of time as well.

If you only listen to the top 40 then you deserve the superficial manufactured pap tag.
If you listen to only unknown talented bands you deserve the music snob tag.

Either way being limited is bad, real music listeners will give everything a go. And own the top 40 as well as bands who will not be heard of by 99% of the population.

i do kind of agree , because alot of the british female singers of the 60's such as Petula Clark and Dusty Springfield did'nt write their songs

But they did have unique stage pressance and passion for what they were singing where alot of artists today dont

I personally think there is a doubt that Leona Lewis has an 'amazing' (please stop using that word people it is way to over used & is really annoying - anybody else agree?) voice.She has an O.K. voice.There are plenty of other people with better voices than her & she is a half way clone between Sarah McClachlan & Mariah Carey anyway.She is also annoying when she does vocal gymnastic warblings when it doesn't fit in with the song & is over the top in a similar way to Mariah '5 octaves' Carey (so what - does that make the song sound good).

"Why do people hate on 'manufactured' people?"

What the hell does "hate on" mean? Is it like "hate", but with an extra "on" added for effect?

sorry - but Leona has way more than an OK voice.

lots people down the local karaoke have an OK voice, but Leona has an amazing voice, period.

IMO of course.

Iain

exactly. out of that list i just have some Cat Power (since hearing cross bones style) and Bon Iver.

a good gauge of a good song is how it translated when other people do it - a good example being when the Arctic Monkeys famously did love machine - it worked because it was a good song to begin with.

Iain

You don't have to own it - give it a listen to now & again that's all.Anything coming from Syco you will hear anyway - usually repeatedly across numerous media stations.

It's because most manufactured pop acts sound manufactured. Their music is targeted towards the majority audience.

It's also about being original. I love originality (in fact I sometimes crave it... but it has to be good original, not just stupid, pretentious stuff). Manufactured acts do what's in at the time. They are just whores being pimped out by their record label pimps.

There are exceptions, of course.

I don't really care where people come from, because you like what you like, but it's often obvious that someone has been manufactured. Their sound is very... manufactured.

Unfortunately a lot of the "manufactured" artists can't sing or dance very well. They would never have become successful in the traditional way. A lot of them are only successful because of the publicity surrounding these shows.
I don't mind Leona Lewis because she can actually sing, but she is in the minority of the manufactured artists.
If they could really sing or dance that great, most likely they could have just gotten a deal from a label by submitting a demo tape or video.

Sorry I happen to disagree, the Americans have gone cold on her as well (her album only got to no.13 in Billboard with only 120k sales).She is also usually a boring listen - alot of people would agree with me.Some people would say she is crap even, I would say she is way over rated & has lack of variety as well.Album reviews by music mags not that brilliant.Over hyped methinks.

i think when people say they think she's crap, they just mean they don't like her / the songs she sings.

i don't really like Mariah Carey, but clearly she can sing.

that's the trouble with a lot of these discussions - people mistake not liking someone with thinking they're crap.

but i defy anyone to hear Leona sing, for example, run and say that her voice is only passable, let alone crap.

Iain

Leona spread her demo's around for over a year but couldn't get a record deal, that why she entered / was advised to enter X-factor.It was her last shot at success.

she's passable

This article explains my dislike of the vocal gymnastics - it just doesn't sound good
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...toryId=6791133

So easily replaced-imagine taking Beatles, Bowie, Stones, Dylan, Roxy Music, Kate Bush and any number of groups/singers out of music-think of the void just on their songs, forgetting their influence-it would be huge.


If you took The Satudays out-just give their singles to Girls Aloud. If you take Leona Lewis out-give her songs to Alex Burke.

Then theres the voices. They probably are very good/better technically-but thats boring. Theres no character at all. Ray Davies, David Bowie, Beatles, Bolan, Bush had so much more to their voices and were much better for it.

And the total shortage of styles. Who wasthe last manufcatured artist to really experiment with adding a bit of Jazz, or Music Hall, or Chamber, Rock (& Roll), Folk or any other type you can name. Its always ballad, pop, Urban or synth or a mixture between them four.

They're my main reasons.

I think a lot of that has to do with having the right look. You don't have to be able to sing well/play an instrument, you have to be attractive in a very set way. I don't know that it's quite as bad for men although I think it still applies. But thats not just music, it's TV (probably more American tv) and Films, I went to the cinema with a friend not that long ago and we spent most of the film trying to work out which actress was which, they've all started to look the same.

I think if you're going to call music "art" then the intention behind the act of creation is important. Pieces of art make a statement or have some broader meaning other than the practical function of generating money for a record company, so if music is manufactured solely for that purpose then it lacks something which "organically" created music has. Holding a note, or playing a guitar for that matter, is simply a technical skill; it's what you do with that skill that determines the quality of a piece of art. The greatest technical painter in the world would be quite useless if all he/she did was paint bowls of fruit.

What has this to do with Leonas version of Run? Everyone knows that Leona didn't write it. She did a demo album before she went on the XF. I know people gave her more credit for Run than she deserved but at the end of the day she is talented and does write her own songs, and whether she came from a talent show or not this needs to be remembered and respected. The XF gave her her big break when she struggled for many years before with it, and there could be more people struggling to make it in the industry as well who would need the kind of exposure the x-factor gives them. I'm not really sure what im trying to say here so i should probably stop typing :L

I don't think Leona is that talented other than being able to sing very well. She cannot dance and as a consequence her career has mainly been restricted to ultra slow, emotional ballards.

Admittedly, "Forgive Me" is more upbeat but she even struggles to look good in a heavily edited video so how she would "perform" the song live convincingly would be interesting to see.

IMO Leona suits backing singer more than front woman but that's just me.

As for Run, I was understanding she made it for Jo Wiley's Live Lounge and not for some promo album pre-X factor but I could be wrong.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aFWdKq21_yY

Last shot at success????

She is 24 now so was 21 then.. and spread her demos around for a year

Just using Snow Patrol as an example (there are countless others), it was about 8 years of hard graft and releasing albums before they got their break.

Its all about instant gratification these days

enter contest > win contest > get number 1 single(cover) > get number one album (mainly covers) > maybe...just maybe now you can be creative and write a few tracks...more than likely someone else will write them for you .

Please could you tell me how many covers you see on either of these tracklistings -

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_N...#Track_listing
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spirit_...#Track_listing
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overcom...#Track_listing

I see one on Leona's album (which was a re-invention of the track) and another on the deluxe edition (Run, again not the run-of-the-mill cover)

Ok maybe 'cover' was the wrong word... looking through those links I can see that out of all the tracks on the 3 albums only Leona Lewis had any sort of writing credit(co writing with 2 other people) 1 song out of the 38 you linked. So OK not covers but they have hardly had huge creative input other than to sing the song.