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Why do people hate on 'manufactured' people?


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Old 22-12-2009, 11:59
Elasticband
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Believe it or not Leona Lewis is not the be all and end all of the music world. There are many, many more artists making and writing music successfully and surprise, surprise did not appear on X-factor.

Music has had and always will have "pop stars" of the ilk of Leona Lewis, Joe McElderry etc etc.

Nothing new other than perhaps more opportunity...

Talent will out......
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Old 22-12-2009, 12:57
mushymanrob
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Cheryl Cole said Joe McBlueberry "deserved" to be number 1 because he'd worked hard for 6 months to win X-Factor.

On that basis, if he "deserves" to be number 1 after 6 month on a talent show, what does a band like RATM deserve after working hard over 18 years to get where they are today?

Manufactured talent is basically a vehicle for making the likes of Cowell & Walsh money, which is why it's so bland - it's mass appeal muzak with no soul.
ive not read the whole thread, this one highlights EXACTLY whats wrong with manufactured music.

if an artist REALLY had any talent, wouldnt they have got the break without the need for a svengali to manufacture them?

great music is created by great artists, people with something to say and the individuality and talent to be able to convey their music.

cowell et al is a cancer on music, stiffling creativity, churning out 'earnest faced, air grabbing, clones' who all slip into character for the x factor job.
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Old 22-12-2009, 13:00
mushymanrob
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i do kind of agree , because alot of the british female singers of the 60's such as Petula Clark and Dusty Springfield did'nt write their songs

But they did have unique stage pressance and passion for what they were singing where alot of artists today dont
BRAVO! ..... and thats the difference between 'manufactured' acts (and i mean 'acts') and real talented artists. its the difference between a karaoke act and a 'star'.
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Old 22-12-2009, 13:37
E0N
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There doesn't appear to be a singly accepted definition of "Manufactured". I have always taken it to mean an individual or group with limited vocal ability, picked up or assembled by a record label, and thrust upon the public.

Otherwise, to what extent were The Beatles a manufactured band? Would they have made it as big without the marketing genius of business manager Brian Epstein, giving them a complete makeover, telling them what to wear and how to move on stage? They were initially marketed to young girls but their natural talent soon took over.

I have never really enjoyed The X Factor and I swear Simon Cowell was headed straight to hell before Season 3. But I'm not stupid and the one obvious fact about most people who come through these shows, is they can actually sing. It is wholly unfair to not give them a chance to further develop their skills.
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Old 22-12-2009, 16:25
super-saint
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More importantly, why do people insist on putting the word ON after the word hate ?? It's just needed is it.
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Old 22-12-2009, 16:41
Elasticband
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BRAVO! ..... and thats the difference between 'manufactured' acts (and i mean 'acts') and real talented artists. its the difference between a karaoke act and a 'star'.
Not too sure that Petula Clark had a passion for what she was singing....
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Old 22-12-2009, 17:03
BatmanLaBatman
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It's not like they don't have talent. Usually these people are good at singing or dancing, but can't lyrics, play instruments or compose music.
There are also plenty of people who can write songs but can't sing, and people who can compose music but nothing else (and those people who don't want to be famous - and they are a lot of them).
A friend of mine writes songs for a record company (can't sing) and loves her job; and is glad that competitions such as X Factor brings more people into the industry which for her dominated by Americans.
Ideally when you put these talents together you get amazing music.
Totally agree and the world would be a far more pleasant place the ears if more songwriters realised they can't sing and allowed those who can to do the job for them.

People who come from the Xfactor type shows, sell their lives and souls to the industry, become people they are not, wouldn't be famous of it wasn't for being manufactured. There is no issue with people writing other people songs or music. There is a problem when the manufactured lot can't bare their own tunes and actually have a different music taste to what they are sining and being sold out to do.
A manufactured person/ group, only speaks with permission and lives a life that is sold to them in order to be famous. They haven't had to work hard to get where they are, they are placed there.
And that goes for all products of these shows, does it?

there's no doubt, surely, that someone like Leona Lewis has an amazing voice. that isn't something that has been manufactured. she really does have an amazing voice.
Absolutely. You can manufacture a lot of things, you can do a lot in the studio but a voice like Leona's you can't buy or sell. You can't even teach it. You can teach technique but you still have to be able to do it, you can improve control, you can even increase range to a certain extent but a voice like that you either have or you have not.

sorry - but Leona has way more than an OK voice.

lots people down the local karaoke have an OK voice, but Leona has an amazing voice, period.

IMO of course.

Iain
Not just some people at the local karaoke but also some people on these shows have only OK voices. Some of them have even gone on to win them with their OK voices. In fact, I would say I've heard some people at karaokes in my time (two at least I can think of) with better voices than some of the contestants who have done well in these shows.

That said, to say Leona's voice is merely OK is absurd, I agree. Particularly when the FM goes on to compare her with Sarah McLachlan and Mariah Carey. Liking someone's style is subjective and I'm not a fan of Leona per se but I would never suggest she has anything other than an excellent voice.

If they could really sing or dance that great, most likely they could have just gotten a deal from a label by submitting a demo tape or video.
if an artist REALLY had any talent, wouldnt they have got the break without the need for a svengali to manufacture them?
There are a multitude of reasons why many very talented people are not signed. More often than not it's to do with record companies' lack of sense of adventure.

Ok maybe 'cover' was the wrong word... looking through those links I can see that out of all the tracks on the 3 albums only Leona Lewis had any sort of writing credit(co writing with 2 other people) 1 song out of the 38 you linked. So OK not covers but they have hardly had huge creative input other than to sing the song.
But this goes back to the earlier argument about songwriters who aren't able to sing. What do you suggest they do? Give up their talent because they can't sing and some people see it as wrong for those who can to sing it for them?

great music is created by great artists, people with something to say and the individuality and talent to be able to convey their music.
It could be argued that being able to convincingly convey somebody else's lyric is even more of a talent.

Anyway, do a lot of people really believe that these songwriters have been through all the experiences they write about? Depending on their style, they'd either be off their t!t$ on happiness or on suicide watch.
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Old 22-12-2009, 17:41
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Manufactured "artists" are souless, sorry.

They have no soul. Someone who gets popular based on word of mouth has a hundred times more respect than these gullible twerps who sell their soul to someone like Simon Cowell for profit. How can you have pride and dignity?

Musicians do it for the love of music, I wouldn't be bothered if I got paid if people appreciated my work, this is the greatest prize of all. That's what music is about. The pay should be secondary and in the case of these media whores - it is NOT. Money first.
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Old 23-12-2009, 10:19
mushymanrob
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There doesn't appear to be a singly accepted definition of "Manufactured". I have always taken it to mean an individual or group with limited vocal ability, picked up or assembled by a record label, and thrust upon the public.

Otherwise, to what extent were The Beatles a manufactured band? Would they have made it as big without the marketing genius of business manager Brian Epstein, giving them a complete makeover, telling them what to wear and how to move on stage? They were initially marketed to young girls but their natural talent soon took over.
.
the beatles were an established, competant bunch of musicians long before epstein managed them...being managed by a businessman is nothing new, 99% of pop groups are business wise dead! theres a huge difference between being managed and being created.

Not too sure that Petula Clark had a passion for what she was singing....
youre not?... did she not make 'downtown' her own? had she not got her own distinctive style? wasnt her rendition of 'i know a place' and 'colour my world' powerful and unique to her style?...

It could be argued that being able to convincingly convey somebody else's lyric is even more of a talent.

Anyway, do a lot of people really believe that these songwriters have been through all the experiences they write about? Depending on their style, they'd either be off their t!t$ on happiness or on suicide watch.
...id certainly agree that being able to CONVICINGLY convey someone elses lyrics in their own style IS a great talent, but txf karaoke crew just do not do that, its a risk, if you attempt it you have to be successful, like dusty springfield on 'goin back'.. otherwise theyll fail miserably.

and yes...i certainly do believe that these writers have either gone through the experiences they sing about, or can empathise with people in the situation who have..
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Old 23-12-2009, 11:50
E0N
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the beatles were an established, competant bunch of musicians long before epstein managed them...being managed by a businessman is nothing new, 99% of pop groups are business wise dead! theres a huge difference between being managed and being created.
The general thrust of your reply reinforces the very point I wish to make: If you have discernable talent and the essential component(s) before being 'discovered', managed and marketed, then you cannot be considered manufacuted.

Kylie Minogue was 'created'; Leona Lewis, who spent a fair amount of time in smoked filled pubs and clubs, was not.
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Old 23-12-2009, 13:10
mushymanrob
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The general thrust of your reply reinforces the very point I wish to make: If you have discernable talent and the essential component(s) before being 'discovered', managed and marketed, then you cannot be considered manufacuted.

Kylie Minogue was 'created'; Leona Lewis, who spent a fair amount of time in smoked filled pubs and clubs, was not.
...i still dont like her, she is just another wailing bint.. unlike the songstresses from the 60's.
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Old 23-12-2009, 15:54
mr_wonderful
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It's not like they don't have talent. Usually these people are good at singing or dancing, but can't lyrics, play instruments or compose music.
There are also plenty of people who can write songs but can't sing, and people who can compose music but nothing else (and those people who don't want to be famous - and they are a lot of them).
A friend of mine writes songs for a record company (can't sing) and loves her job; and is glad that competitions such as X Factor brings more people into the industry which for her dominated by Americans.
Ideally when you put these talents together you get amazing music.
Unfortunately it frequently does not produce "amazing music", it produces here today gone tomorrow music.
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Old 23-12-2009, 16:54
brunolover
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I don't hate manufactured music but at the same time I couldnt imagine being passionate about such an artist or group either.

To me manufactured acts are there for the benefit of record companies and executives in a way to make money by using their control. They decide who they pick, what they sing, wear, how they dance, move and act etc to appeal to the mass market and to make them money. They don't allow for individuality in anyway.

You only have to see X Factor for the proof. They told what and how to sing and are all given strict dance moves and steps to follow to the letter.

What annoys is somehow people think that if someone can sing they deserve success as if that is all that is important. Many acts on these shows can sing to varying degrees but hardly any have a personality or star quality to make them interesting on any level but somehow that doesn't matter.
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Old 23-12-2009, 16:58
Elasticband
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youre not?... did she not make 'downtown' her own? had she not got her own distinctive style? wasnt her rendition of 'i know a place' and 'colour my world' powerful and unique to her style?...


And you're trying to compare this with all of Dusty Springfields output for example...

All the above were just clones of each other, sung in the same style, with about as much passion and feeling as a jelly fish.
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Old 23-12-2009, 17:21
Richlup
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I don't think its the fact that they are manufactured that makes them so annoying, it's the fact that they dominate the music industry nowadays and people who get there by themselves rather than winning a place are shoved out, unless they're really brash like Lady GaGa.

Loads of bands that aren't off TV are manufactured too anyway, in fact, any band that holds auditions for a musician is manufactured in a way.
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Old 23-12-2009, 17:43
mushymanrob
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And you're trying to compare this with all of Dusty Springfields output for example...

All the above were just clones of each other, sung in the same style, with about as much passion and feeling as a jelly fish.
...but it was HER style, you couldnt mistake pet clarke for dusty, sandie, lulu, cilla (lol..ok not everyones taste but imho her early material was good) etc etc... ok pet might not be in the same league as dusty, but who was?
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Old 24-12-2009, 10:56
Glawster2002
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Loads of bands that aren't off TV are manufactured too anyway, in fact, any band that holds auditions for a musician is manufactured in a way.
I don't think you can really compare the two situations.

A band auditioning for a new member is looking for someone who not only is a musician, but also someone who they are comfortable with having in the band.

A boyband, for example, is a group of individuals picked by a management company for their marketing potential as much as anything else. Whether they can actually sing is almost a total irrelevance these days.
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Old 24-12-2009, 14:52
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Do they work harder, or do they just do different work? Leona probably puts a bit more choreography into live performances and videos than Snow Patrol do, for example.

Iain
Is standing glued to the one spot considered choreography now days? Snow Patrol probably move more than Leona whilst playing their guitars.

Leona spread her demo's around for over a year but couldn't get a record deal, that why she entered / was advised to enter X-factor.It was her last shot at success.
Last shot at success????

She is 24 now so was 21 then.. and spread her demos around for a year

Just using Snow Patrol as an example (there are countless others), it was about 8 years of hard graft and releasing albums before they got their break.

Its all about instant gratification these days

enter contest > win contest > get number 1 single(cover) > get number one album (mainly covers) > maybe...just maybe now you can be creative and write a few tracks...more than likely someone else will write them for you .
Was going to reply to the quote above you but you covered it thanks.
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Old 25-12-2009, 07:29
Slick Nick
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there's no doubt, surely, that someone like Leona Lewis has an amazing voice. that isn't something that has been manufactured. she really does have an amazing voice.

Iain
Good point Iain. I think she was born with that voice... it's got nothing to do with the £40k of singing lessons she had.

In terms of manufactured music, I guess you need something for the less intelligent people to twiddle their thumbs to.
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