Believe it or not Leona Lewis is not the be all and end all of the music world. There are many, many more artists making and writing music successfully and surprise, surprise did not appear on X-factor.

Music has had and always will have "pop stars" of the ilk of Leona Lewis, Joe McElderry etc etc.

Nothing new other than perhaps more opportunity...

Talent will out......

ive not read the whole thread, this one highlights EXACTLY whats wrong with manufactured music.

if an artist REALLY had any talent, wouldnt they have got the break without the need for a svengali to manufacture them?

great music is created by great artists, people with something to say and the individuality and talent to be able to convey their music.

cowell et al is a cancer on music, stiffling creativity, churning out 'earnest faced, air grabbing, clones' who all slip into character for the x factor job.

BRAVO! ..... and thats the difference between 'manufactured' acts (and i mean 'acts') and real talented artists. its the difference between a karaoke act and a 'star'.

There doesn't appear to be a singly accepted definition of "Manufactured". I have always taken it to mean an individual or group with limited vocal ability, picked up or assembled by a record label, and thrust upon the public.

Otherwise, to what extent were The Beatles a manufactured band? Would they have made it as big without the marketing genius of business manager Brian Epstein, giving them a complete makeover, telling them what to wear and how to move on stage? They were initially marketed to young girls but their natural talent soon took over.

I have never really enjoyed The X Factor and I swear Simon Cowell was headed straight to hell before Season 3. But I'm not stupid and the one obvious fact about most people who come through these shows, is they can actually sing. It is wholly unfair to not give them a chance to further develop their skills.

More importantly, why do people insist on putting the word ON after the word hate ?? It's just needed is it.

Not too sure that Petula Clark had a passion for what she was singing....

Totally agree and the world would be a far more pleasant place the ears if more songwriters realised they can't sing and allowed those who can to do the job for them.


And that goes for all products of these shows, does it?


Absolutely. You can manufacture a lot of things, you can do a lot in the studio but a voice like Leona's you can't buy or sell. You can't even teach it. You can teach technique but you still have to be able to do it, you can improve control, you can even increase range to a certain extent but a voice like that you either have or you have not.


Not just some people at the local karaoke but also some people on these shows have only OK voices. Some of them have even gone on to win them with their OK voices. In fact, I would say I've heard some people at karaokes in my time (two at least I can think of) with better voices than some of the contestants who have done well in these shows.

That said, to say Leona's voice is merely OK is absurd, I agree. Particularly when the FM goes on to compare her with Sarah McLachlan and Mariah Carey. Liking someone's style is subjective and I'm not a fan of Leona per se but I would never suggest she has anything other than an excellent voice.



There are a multitude of reasons why many very talented people are not signed. More often than not it's to do with record companies' lack of sense of adventure.


But this goes back to the earlier argument about songwriters who aren't able to sing. What do you suggest they do? Give up their talent because they can't sing and some people see it as wrong for those who can to sing it for them?


It could be argued that being able to convincingly convey somebody else's lyric is even more of a talent.

Anyway, do a lot of people really believe that these songwriters have been through all the experiences they write about? Depending on their style, they'd either be off their t!t$ on happiness or on suicide watch.

Manufactured "artists" are souless, sorry.

They have no soul. Someone who gets popular based on word of mouth has a hundred times more respect than these gullible twerps who sell their soul to someone like Simon Cowell for profit. How can you have pride and dignity?

Musicians do it for the love of music, I wouldn't be bothered if I got paid if people appreciated my work, this is the greatest prize of all. That's what music is about. The pay should be secondary and in the case of these media whores - it is NOT. Money first.

the beatles were an established, competant bunch of musicians long before epstein managed them...being managed by a businessman is nothing new, 99% of pop groups are business wise dead! theres a huge difference between being managed and being created.


youre not?... did she not make 'downtown' her own? had she not got her own distinctive style? wasnt her rendition of 'i know a place' and 'colour my world' powerful and unique to her style?...


...id certainly agree that being able to CONVICINGLY convey someone elses lyrics in their own style IS a great talent, but txf karaoke crew just do not do that, its a risk, if you attempt it you have to be successful, like dusty springfield on 'goin back'.. otherwise theyll fail miserably.

and yes...i certainly do believe that these writers have either gone through the experiences they sing about, or can empathise with people in the situation who have..

The general thrust of your reply reinforces the very point I wish to make: If you have discernable talent and the essential component(s) before being 'discovered', managed and marketed, then you cannot be considered manufacuted.

Kylie Minogue was 'created'; Leona Lewis, who spent a fair amount of time in smoked filled pubs and clubs, was not.

...i still dont like her, she is just another wailing bint.. unlike the songstresses from the 60's.

Unfortunately it frequently does not produce "amazing music", it produces here today gone tomorrow music.

I don't hate manufactured music but at the same time I couldnt imagine being passionate about such an artist or group either.

To me manufactured acts are there for the benefit of record companies and executives in a way to make money by using their control. They decide who they pick, what they sing, wear, how they dance, move and act etc to appeal to the mass market and to make them money. They don't allow for individuality in anyway.

You only have to see X Factor for the proof. They told what and how to sing and are all given strict dance moves and steps to follow to the letter.

What annoys is somehow people think that if someone can sing they deserve success as if that is all that is important. Many acts on these shows can sing to varying degrees but hardly any have a personality or star quality to make them interesting on any level but somehow that doesn't matter.

And you're trying to compare this with all of Dusty Springfields output for example...

All the above were just clones of each other, sung in the same style, with about as much passion and feeling as a jelly fish.

I don't think its the fact that they are manufactured that makes them so annoying, it's the fact that they dominate the music industry nowadays and people who get there by themselves rather than winning a place are shoved out, unless they're really brash like Lady GaGa.

Loads of bands that aren't off TV are manufactured too anyway, in fact, any band that holds auditions for a musician is manufactured in a way.

...but it was HER style, you couldnt mistake pet clarke for dusty, sandie, lulu, cilla (lol..ok not everyones taste but imho her early material was good) etc etc... ok pet might not be in the same league as dusty, but who was?

I don't think you can really compare the two situations.

A band auditioning for a new member is looking for someone who not only is a musician, but also someone who they are comfortable with having in the band.

A boyband, for example, is a group of individuals picked by a management company for their marketing potential as much as anything else. Whether they can actually sing is almost a total irrelevance these days.

Is standing glued to the one spot considered choreography now days? Snow Patrol probably move more than Leona whilst playing their guitars.



Was going to reply to the quote above you but you covered it thanks.

Good point Iain. I think she was born with that voice... it's got nothing to do with the £40k of singing lessons she had.

In terms of manufactured music, I guess you need something for the less intelligent people to twiddle their thumbs to.