Tint control with PAL source on UK TV's

crunchie · 31-12-2009, 18:16

I currently have a 2006 Panasonic 42PX60 plasma but the colours are not *quite* right to my eyes, especially skin tones (even after an ISF calibration). Does the LG 50 PS8000 allow adjustment of the Tint control for all HDMI PAL sources (such as DVD players and Sky) as well as for the inbuilt Freeview tuner? And does it allow a custom Tint setting for each HDMI input? (for example, my Sky+HD box via HDMI is slightly red-heavy).

Furthermore, are there any other UK Plasma manufacturers that incorporate a universally-functionable Tint control for all inputs and sources? (apart from just NTSC?). Panasonic disappoint me by not having this facility on PAL sources.

Thank you.

Nigel Goodwin · 31-12-2009, 19:24

You don't need tint on PAL, that's one of the NTSC defects that PAL corrects - so it's a VERY rare facility on PAL sets.

Chris Frost · 31-12-2009, 20:37

No PAL signal should need Tint. Hence no TV manufacturer building a TV to spec should have need of a Tint control for PAL signals.

Tint is required in NTSC signals because the colour phase (or color phase

)'floats'. It is corrected at the display set. PAL's colour phase is fixed. This is where we get the PAL acronym which stands for Phase Alternate Line.

If you have had the TV ISF'd and still find too much red in the picture then there's either an excessive amount of red push in the colour decoder, or the ISF'ing hasn't been done correctly, or you are overly sensitive to the warmer picture at D65. Do you have the calibration report?

edit: how odd, Nigel's post wasn't showing up when I read this thread despite the post time almost an hour earlier.

crunchie · 31-12-2009, 20:46

I appreciate your comments, but I find that watching US NTSC DVD's where the tint control is active allows me to get a far more natural colour balance than watching the PAL DVD equivalent. Also, adjusting tint has no effect on the black and white shades whereas adjusting the red, green and blue cuts/boosts in the service menu does. It certainly wouldn't hurt UK manufacturers to have the Tint control universally active so that any over-red PAL material (such as US imports) can be tweaked by the viewer to their liking. I was just wondering if any UK TV's already had this feature.

Are there any external HDMI devices that would allow one to adjust the tint on the TV screen for all connected PAL sources? (I believe the Onkyo 1007/3007/5007 receivers have ISF adjustments including tint (hue) but they're rather expensive).

Chris Frost · 31-12-2009, 21:00

There are Lumagen scalers that have multiple picture memories and very accurate 11 point greyscale adjustment per memory. You'd be able to adjust the colour balance at the points in the greyscale that correspond to the red push area for skin tones.

prking · 31-12-2009, 21:14

The only PAL set I've ever seen with a tint control was the ITT my mum had in the early 1980s. I've never seen the need for it on a properly calibrated display and would suspect this issue is one of perception.

rjb101 · 01-01-2010, 08:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by crunchie

I currently have a 2006 Panasonic 42PX60 plasma but the colours are not *quite* right to my eyes, especially skin tones (even after an ISF calibration). Does the LG 50 PS8000 allow adjustment of the Tint control for all HDMI PAL sources (such as DVD players and Sky) as well as for the inbuilt Freeview tuner? And does it allow a custom Tint setting for each HDMI input? (for example, my Sky+HD box via HDMI is slightly red-heavy).

Furthermore, are there any other UK Plasma manufacturers that incorporate a universally-functionable Tint control for all inputs and sources? (apart from just NTSC?). Panasonic disappoint me by not having this facility on PAL sources.

Thank you.

I've got a LG PG6000, that has a Tint adjustment on all inputs - and it's adjustable for each one. In fact it has more adjustments than you can shake a stick at.

Don't know about PS8000, but it would be worth further investigation

Edit. Wade through this lot. http://www.avforums.com/forums/lg-ow...ma-thread.html

Post 430 mentions tint.

bobcar · 01-01-2010, 10:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Frost

edit: how odd, Nigel's post wasn't showing up when I read this thread despite the post time almost an hour earlier.

That's very common on this forum at the moment - the post is shown on the "Home Entertainment Technology" summary but when you go into the thread it is not there until another post is added. This is one reason why there are a lot of double posts as people bump the original one.

advid · 01-01-2010, 11:10

...are you sure it's your TV ?

Take a look at ITV /SKY /BBC news and view various clips from all over the world.... Some faces/skins are lobster red / others greenish / others orangey - some may even look 'natural' - the broadcasters/cameramen don't seem to be able to set their 'white balance' correctly prior to filming....

I've colour calibrated my home/TV setup and it annoys me to see such a wide variation in incorrect skin tones....

If I can do it - WHY CAN'T THEY ????

Nigel Goodwin · 01-01-2010, 11:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by prking

The only PAL set I've ever seen with a tint control was the ITT my mum had in the early 1980s. I've never seen the need for it on a properly calibrated display and would suspect this issue is one of perception.

A lot of the very early Japanese sets had them, because they didn't use PAL decoders, they wouldn't pay Telefunken for the rights to use it. So they did a version of their own, which didn't infringe the PAL patents, but meant you needed a Tint control.

grahamlthompson · 01-01-2010, 13:09

:NTSC - Never Twice The Same Colour - hence the tint control

crunchie · 07-01-2010, 16:14

It still wouldn't hurt manufacturers of top line UK plasmas to enable the Tint control for all sources so that the user can tweak to their taste according to the source/origin of the programme being watched at the time.

Panasonic would get an instant sale from me if they offered this to their UK customers.

31-12-2009, 18:16	#1
crunchie Forum Member Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 593	Tint control with PAL source on UK TV's I currently have a 2006 Panasonic 42PX60 plasma but the colours are not quite right to my eyes, especially skin tones (even after an ISF calibration). Does the LG 50 PS8000 allow adjustment of the Tint control for all HDMI PAL sources (such as DVD players and Sky) as well as for the inbuilt Freeview tuner? And does it allow a custom Tint setting for each HDMI input? (for example, my Sky+HD box via HDMI is slightly red-heavy). Furthermore, are there any other UK Plasma manufacturers that incorporate a universally-functionable Tint control for all inputs and sources? (apart from just NTSC?). Panasonic disappoint me by not having this facility on PAL sources. Thank you.

01-01-2010, 11:10	#9
advid Forum Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 560	reply.... ...are you sure it's your TV ? Take a look at ITV /SKY /BBC news and view various clips from all over the world.... Some faces/skins are lobster red / others greenish / others orangey - some may even look 'natural' - the broadcasters/cameramen don't seem to be able to set their 'white balance' correctly prior to filming.... I've colour calibrated my home/TV setup and it annoys me to see such a wide variation in incorrect skin tones.... If I can do it - WHY CAN'T THEY ????

31-12-2009, 19:24	#2
Nigel Goodwin Forum Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: North Derbyshire Posts: 41,789	You don't need tint on PAL, that's one of the NTSC defects that PAL corrects - so it's a VERY rare facility on PAL sets.

31-12-2009, 20:37	#3
Chris Frost Forum Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Cheshire Posts: 6,462	No PAL signal should need Tint. Hence no TV manufacturer building a TV to spec should have need of a Tint control for PAL signals. Tint is required in NTSC signals because the colour phase (or color phase )'floats'. It is corrected at the display set. PAL's colour phase is fixed. This is where we get the PAL acronym which stands for Phase Alternate Line. If you have had the TV ISF'd and still find too much red in the picture then there's either an excessive amount of red push in the colour decoder, or the ISF'ing hasn't been done correctly, or you are overly sensitive to the warmer picture at D65. Do you have the calibration report? edit: how odd, Nigel's post wasn't showing up when I read this thread despite the post time almost an hour earlier.

31-12-2009, 20:46	#4
crunchie Forum Member Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 593	I appreciate your comments, but I find that watching US NTSC DVD's where the tint control is active allows me to get a far more natural colour balance than watching the PAL DVD equivalent. Also, adjusting tint has no effect on the black and white shades whereas adjusting the red, green and blue cuts/boosts in the service menu does. It certainly wouldn't hurt UK manufacturers to have the Tint control universally active so that any over-red PAL material (such as US imports) can be tweaked by the viewer to their liking. I was just wondering if any UK TV's already had this feature. Are there any external HDMI devices that would allow one to adjust the tint on the TV screen for all connected PAL sources? (I believe the Onkyo 1007/3007/5007 receivers have ISF adjustments including tint (hue) but they're rather expensive).

31-12-2009, 21:00	#5
Chris Frost Forum Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Cheshire Posts: 6,462	There are Lumagen scalers that have multiple picture memories and very accurate 11 point greyscale adjustment per memory. You'd be able to adjust the colour balance at the points in the greyscale that correspond to the red push area for skin tones.

31-12-2009, 21:14	#6
prking Forum Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Weston-super-Mare Posts: 9,167	The only PAL set I've ever seen with a tint control was the ITT my mum had in the early 1980s. I've never seen the need for it on a properly calibrated display and would suspect this issue is one of perception.

01-01-2010, 08:35	#7
rjb101 Forum Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 2,609	Quote: Originally Posted by crunchie I currently have a 2006 Panasonic 42PX60 plasma but the colours are not quite right to my eyes, especially skin tones (even after an ISF calibration). Does the LG 50 PS8000 allow adjustment of the Tint control for all HDMI PAL sources (such as DVD players and Sky) as well as for the inbuilt Freeview tuner? And does it allow a custom Tint setting for each HDMI input? (for example, my Sky+HD box via HDMI is slightly red-heavy). Furthermore, are there any other UK Plasma manufacturers that incorporate a universally-functionable Tint control for all inputs and sources? (apart from just NTSC?). Panasonic disappoint me by not having this facility on PAL sources. Thank you. I've got a LG PG6000, that has a Tint adjustment on all inputs - and it's adjustable for each one. In fact it has more adjustments than you can shake a stick at. Don't know about PS8000, but it would be worth further investigation Edit. Wade through this lot. http://www.avforums.com/forums/lg-ow...ma-thread.html Post 430 mentions tint.

01-01-2010, 10:55	#8
bobcar Forum Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 14,718	Quote: Originally Posted by Chris Frost edit: how odd, Nigel's post wasn't showing up when I read this thread despite the post time almost an hour earlier. That's very common on this forum at the moment - the post is shown on the "Home Entertainment Technology" summary but when you go into the thread it is not there until another post is added. This is one reason why there are a lot of double posts as people bump the original one.

01-01-2010, 11:15	#10
Nigel Goodwin Forum Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: North Derbyshire Posts: 41,789	Quote: Originally Posted by prking The only PAL set I've ever seen with a tint control was the ITT my mum had in the early 1980s. I've never seen the need for it on a properly calibrated display and would suspect this issue is one of perception. A lot of the very early Japanese sets had them, because they didn't use PAL decoders, they wouldn't pay Telefunken for the rights to use it. So they did a version of their own, which didn't infringe the PAL patents, but meant you needed a Tint control.

01-01-2010, 13:09	#11
grahamlthompson Forum Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Redditch Worcs Posts: 17,293	:NTSC - Never Twice The Same Colour - hence the tint control

07-01-2010, 16:14	#12
crunchie Forum Member Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 593	It still wouldn't hurt manufacturers of top line UK plasmas to enable the Tint control for all sources so that the user can tweak to their taste according to the source/origin of the programme being watched at the time. Panasonic would get an instant sale from me if they offered this to their UK customers.

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Tint control with PAL source on UK TV's