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Old 01-01-2010, 19:21
Smess83
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After reading about someone passing away that I'd not heard of ( Tim Hart ), from a band I'd not heard of, I've discovered Steeleye Span !

Wow..

Ok, seems like some of its mega dated but Thomas the Rhymer, Long Lankin and Tam Lin are totally epic, especially Tam Lin. The fiddle sound is awesome. The Fox and Padstow are cool too. It kinda grows on you and the songs actually tell like stories, and aren't just limp love songs.

These guys need some respect and I'd love to hear like Florence & The Machine or Bat for Lashes do some covers of their stuff.

What other really good stuffs out there we're all missing out on and over looking ?
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Old 01-01-2010, 20:32
mushymanrob
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hmmm..... modern artists covering traditional folk music?... dunno if it can be done without losing the essence of the track. those historic lyrics need imho a traditional folk feel to them to make them work, steeleye span caused a furrore by electrifying traditional folk music back in the late 60's early 70's. but they did it sympathetically and imho it worked.

keep on discovering their material, i love the earlier material myself.
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Old 01-01-2010, 21:26
Smess83
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Just cranked the bass up in the car and blasted out Black Jack Davy, the ear piercing fiddle over th bass of the drums is something else... almost sounds as good as Flo rida's 'Low' on my sound system !...

I dont reckon anyone should get precious about traditional folk music and essence of the track... if somethings good to listen to, its as simple as that..

I know the tune to Fighting for Strangers, its a real old tune I knew as a kid from school but I cant remember what it is. If Steeleye Span have done that to that tune, why should Lady GaGa say, take the tune to Black Jack Davy, take the immense drums and fiddle, and alter the lyrics to a guy jumping on his motorbike because the porsche isn't quick enough, and chasing after his girl who's gone to a club with a chav, like 'what care have I for the prada handbags you buy me, when I can have this blokes tattoos, biceps and clapped out Astra GSI..' Okay, Im pushing it but you get my point ?.. if the sound remained fairly authentic and the quality and skill of the musicians was there, you'd have something maketable, and something different.

Im gay and the gay clubs play loads of remixes and weird stuff .. you got to listen to some of it... Studio 54's cover of Gordon Lightfoots 'If you could read my mind' is a case in point... it works both ways.

There aint no reason why Steeleye Spans material shouldn't be used... and it might just keep some of stories and tales out there and being told...
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Old 01-01-2010, 22:08
Omah
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hmmm..... modern artists covering traditional folk music?... dunno if it can be done without losing the essence of the track.
Traffic - John Barleycorn (Must Die) - 1970

steeleye span caused a furrore by electrifying traditional folk music back in the late 60's early 70's. but they did it sympathetically and imho it worked.
Fairport were there before Steeleye .....
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Old 01-01-2010, 22:52
Smess83
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Steeleye Spans cover of John Barleycorn is way more upbeat than Traffics - just itunes'd it.

I was kinda thinking along the lines of Shaggy's 'Angel' was based on 'Angel of the Morning' by P.P Arnold.. loved it when it came out, heard there was an 'original', found it and liked it even if it is dead old. Its that and the remixes and covers on the Queer As Folk soundtrack CDs that got me started looking at old songs and groups... The 1st QAF CD had a hi-NRG version of a Fleetwood Mac song my dad used to listen to ! found that well funny.
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Old 01-01-2010, 23:01
Omah
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Steeleye Spans cover of John Barleycorn is way more upbeat than Traffics - just itunes'd it.
The question was, though, whether "modern artists could cover traditional folk music" ..... Well, Traffic was "modern" in 1970 .....
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Old 01-01-2010, 23:04
mushymanrob
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Traffic - John Barleycorn (Must Die) - 1970



Fairport were there before Steeleye .....
no.... they were there alongside steeleye, swaping members (eg carthy ) fairport though didnt concentrate solely on traditional folk as steeleye did.
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Old 01-01-2010, 23:05
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I was kinda thinking along the lines of Shaggy's 'Angel' was based on 'Angel of the Morning' by P.P Arnold.. loved it when it came out, heard there was an 'original', found it and liked it even if it is dead old.
"Angel of the Morning" was originally offered to Connie Francis to sing, but she turned it down because she thought that it was too risqué for her career.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angel_of_the_Morning
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Old 01-01-2010, 23:13
Omah
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no.... they were there alongside steeleye, swaping members (eg carthy ) fairport though didnt concentrate solely on traditional folk as steeleye did.
Martin Carthy was NEVER in Fairport Convention .....

Ashley Hutchings, however, WAS .....


Fairport's Liege and Lief (1969) was a huge leap forward in concept and musicality. The album consisted of six traditional tracks and three original compositions in a similar style. The traditional tracks included two sustained epics ‘Tam Lin’, which was over seven minutes in length, and ‘Matty Groves’, at over eight. There was a medley of four traditional tunes, arranged, and, like many of the tracks, enlivened, by Swarbrick’s energetic fiddle playing. The first side was bracketed by original compositions ‘Come all ye’ and ‘Farewell, Farewell’, which, in addition to an inner sleeve based on Hutchings’ research, explaining English folk traditions, helped give the record the feel of a concept album. ‘Farewell, Farewell’ and the final track ‘Crazy Man Michael’, also saw the full emergence of the distinctive song writing talent of Thompson that was to characterize his contributions to the band and later solo career. The distinctive sound of the album came from the use of electric instruments and Mattacks’ disciplined drumming with Swarbrick’s fiddle accompaniment in a surprising and powerful combination of rock with the traditional.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fairpor..._electric_folk
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Old 01-01-2010, 23:14
mushymanrob
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Just cranked the bass up in the car and blasted out Black Jack Davy, the ear piercing fiddle over th bass of the drums is something else... almost sounds as good as Flo rida's 'Low' on my sound system !...

I dont reckon anyone should get precious about traditional folk music and essence of the track... if somethings good to listen to, its as simple as that..

I know the tune to Fighting for Strangers, its a real old tune I knew as a kid from school but I cant remember what it is. If Steeleye Span have done that to that tune, why should Lady GaGa say, take the tune to Black Jack Davy, take the immense drums and fiddle, and alter the lyrics to a guy jumping on his motorbike because the porsche isn't quick enough, and chasing after his girl who's gone to a club with a chav, like 'what care have I for the prada handbags you buy me, when I can have this blokes tattoos, biceps and clapped out Astra GSI..' Okay, Im pushing it but you get my point ?.. if the sound remained fairly authentic and the quality and skill of the musicians was there, you'd have something maketable, and something different.

Im gay and the gay clubs play loads of remixes and weird stuff .. you got to listen to some of it... Studio 54's cover of Gordon Lightfoots 'If you could read my mind' is a case in point... it works both ways.

There aint no reason why Steeleye Spans material shouldn't be used... and it might just keep some of stories and tales out there and being told...
your point is most valid, surely folk means 'of the people' so singing about todays materialist values is folk.

im all for music that evolkes an emotion, a story, a point of view. if re inventing traditional folk songs for a contemporary audience is done right (and by that i mean keep the essence of why the track came to being) then im all for it. im just very cynical that in this very commercial age where reality tv karaoke contestants are worshipped like gods , that traditional folk isnt used by marketeers as another resource in which to raid in contempt for its original meaning.

to me the thing thats most important to traditional folk is the fact that it was created by some real life guy in history to convey a message, its an historical writing, it tells us, gives us an insight, as to what real life was really like for our ancestors. that is the most important element in traditional folk songs, historical context.

i dunno if that can be updated... tricky area though i wont dismiss it out of hand... after all if everyone did that 40 years ago there would be no steeleye span nor fairport convention.
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Old 01-01-2010, 23:16
Smess83
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Lol. Modern then may be. Was 13 yrs olds when I was born tho ...

Anyway... just discovered.. Fleet Foxes covered False Knight On The Road !!! See, knew it should it happen.. now it needs to happen more, and better...

That has to be the only Steeleye Span cover and I cant believe how many songs Steeleye Span have done !... they get a lot better the older they get ! Hope of Amy Winehouse yet !!
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Old 01-01-2010, 23:19
mushymanrob
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Martin Carthy was NEVER in Fairport Convention .....

Ashley Hutchings, however, WAS .....




http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fairpor..._electric_folk
oops... senior moment...

ashley hutchings (and gaye) was in steeleye alongside carthy (hark the village waite) ... but in them days they all played alongside eachother in differing groups... albion band for eg. often they guested or were uncredited on eachothers material.
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Old 01-01-2010, 23:25
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Traffic - John Barleycorn (Must Die) - 1970



Fairport were there before Steeleye .....
Not to mention Jethro Tull who have always thrown in the odd Trad song into their mix. (They also did John barleycorn).
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Old 01-01-2010, 23:25
Omah
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Anyway... just discovered.. Fleet Foxes covered False Knight On The Road !!!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Fau..._Upon_the_Road

That has to be the only Steeleye Span cover and I cant believe how many songs Steeleye Span have done !... they get a lot better the older they get ! Hope of Amy Winehouse yet !!
But if SS only do "traditional" songs, THEY are doing the "covering" .....

I lost interest in SS when Martin Carthy left and followed the Master, instead .....
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Old 01-01-2010, 23:28
Omah
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oops... senior moment...

ashley hutchings (and gaye) was in steeleye alongside carthy (hark the village waite) ... but in them days they all played alongside eachother in differing groups... albion band for eg. often they guested or were uncredited on eachothers material.
Yeah, that is true .....

..... and, of course, Swarbrick had already formed a legendary partnership with Carthy .....
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Old 01-01-2010, 23:40
mushymanrob
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Fau..._Upon_the_Road



But if SS only do "traditional" songs, THEY are doing the "covering" .....

I lost interest in SS when Martin Carthy left and followed the Master, instead .....
thats harsh... steeleye did several good albums after carthy left, i lost interest soon after 'all around my hat' and 'rocket cottage'..

i rate carthy though extremely high... possibly our best ever folk artist. reckon 'famous flower of serving men' was my fav.
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Old 01-01-2010, 23:43
mushymanrob
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Yeah, that is true .....

..... and, of course, Swarbrick had already formed a legendary partnership with Carthy .....
im sure carthy guested with fairport but was uncredited... anyway it matters not.

i never took to fairport as much as carthy or span... it was the historic element on trad folk i liked as i love history and englishness. trad folk gives us an insight to the language and lifes of our ancestors.
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Old 01-01-2010, 23:49
Omah
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thats harsh... steeleye did several good albums after carthy left, i lost interest soon after 'all around my hat' and 'rocket cottage'..
Yeah, they're mostly good, VERY good, but not "great" - too "populist" for my taste .....
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Old 01-01-2010, 23:55
Smess83
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your point is most valid, surely folk means 'of the people' so singing about todays materialist values is folk.

im all for music that evolkes an emotion, a story, a point of view. if re inventing traditional folk songs for a contemporary audience is done right (and by that i mean keep the essence of why the track came to being) then im all for it. im just very cynical that in this very commercial age where reality tv karaoke contestants are worshipped like gods , that traditional folk isnt used by marketeers as another resource in which to raid in contempt for its original meaning.

to me the thing thats most important to traditional folk is the fact that it was created by some real life guy in history to convey a message, its an historical writing, it tells us, gives us an insight, as to what real life was really like for our ancestors. that is the most important element in traditional folk songs, historical context.

i dunno if that can be updated... tricky area though i wont dismiss it out of hand... after all if everyone did that 40 years ago there would be no steeleye span nor fairport convention.

I figure you're right about story telling. Seems to me with jigs and reals that Steeleye Span do that music for dancing to didn't have any lyrics and songs with lyrics told a story and weren't for dancing to. Wonder when that changed ?Now, most commercial stuff seems to be designed not for listening to but for dancing to.

Having come across Steeleye Span today, I'd love there to be a folk week on X-factor ! Not so its exploited, but so people my age with an appreciation of music have the opportunity to hear this stuff... Without the news item about the former member passing away, I'd never have heard of Steeleye Span..
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Old 01-01-2010, 23:56
Omah
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im sure carthy guested with fairport but was uncredited... anyway it matters not.
I've never come across any reference to Carthy, but I've got some recordings of Joni Mitchell doing backing vocals for Fairport on a radio show .....
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Old 01-01-2010, 23:58
Smess83
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your point is most valid, surely folk means 'of the people' so singing about todays materialist values is folk.

im all for music that evolkes an emotion, a story, a point of view. if re inventing traditional folk songs for a contemporary audience is done right (and by that i mean keep the essence of why the track came to being) then im all for it. im just very cynical that in this very commercial age where reality tv karaoke contestants are worshipped like gods , that traditional folk isnt used by marketeers as another resource in which to raid in contempt for its original meaning.

to me the thing thats most important to traditional folk is the fact that it was created by some real life guy in history to convey a message, its an historical writing, it tells us, gives us an insight, as to what real life was really like for our ancestors. that is the most important element in traditional folk songs, historical context.

i dunno if that can be updated... tricky area though i wont dismiss it out of hand... after all if everyone did that 40 years ago there would be no steeleye span nor fairport convention.

I figure you're right about story telling. Seems to me with jigs and reals that Steeleye Span do that music for dancing to didn't have any lyrics and songs with lyrics told a story and weren't for dancing to. Wonder when that changed ?Now, most commercial stuff seems to be designed not for listening to but for dancing to.

Although love and sex come into it, these songs arent all bland love songs... things happen.. Im amazed how dirty so these are.. you listened to Cold Haily Windy Night ? LOL...

Having come across Steeleye Span today, I'd love there to be a folk week on X-factor ! Not so its exploited, but so people my age with an appreciation of music have the opportunity to hear this stuff... Without the news item about the former member passing away, I'd never have heard of Steeleye Span..
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Old 02-01-2010, 00:07
mushymanrob
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I've never come across any reference to Carthy, but I've got some recordings of Joni Mitchell doing backing vocals for Fairport on a radio show .....
thats news to me!
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Old 02-01-2010, 00:16
mushymanrob
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I figure you're right about story telling. Seems to me with jigs and reals that Steeleye Span do that music for dancing to didn't have any lyrics and songs with lyrics told a story and weren't for dancing to. Wonder when that changed ?Now, most commercial stuff seems to be designed not for listening to but for dancing to.

Although love and sex come into it, these songs arent all bland love songs... things happen.. Im amazed how dirty so these are.. you listened to Cold Haily Windy Night ? LOL...

Having come across Steeleye Span today, I'd love there to be a folk week on X-factor ! Not so its exploited, but so people my age with an appreciation of music have the opportunity to hear this stuff... Without the news item about the former member passing away, I'd never have heard of Steeleye Span..
i dunno... those jigs and reels do evolke certain mental images. i dont think you HAVE to have lyrics to project a feeling. my favs are the seriese of 3 on 'ten man mop' (dowds favourite, £10 float, morning dew) really stir my imagination and do connect to something rural/historical

lol.. indeed 'cold haily windy night' is one of my favs, many songs are about death, sex or the press gang!
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Old 02-01-2010, 00:20
Omah
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Joni Mitchell was virtually unknown and unreleased on record in 1967 when "Fairport Convention" was recorded and her own versions of the two songs on it did not appear until her second album, Clouds, in 1969. The Fairports knew her as she had been in the UK at the invitation of their producer, Joe Boyd, and she had played some British dates supporting the Incredible String Band (I kid you not ..... ).
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Old 02-01-2010, 00:37
mushymanrob
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Joni Mitchell was virtually unknown and unreleased on record in 1967 when "Fairport Convention" was recorded and her own versions of the two songs here did not appear until her second album, Clouds, in 1969. The Fairports knew her as she had been in the UK at the invitation of their producer, Joe Boyd, and she had played some British dates supporting the Incredible String Band (I kid you not ..... ).
thanks for that info

its hard to get in depth info on these forums...pity... us oldies have alot of info to impart/swap.
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