Can someone fill me in with a brief reminder of his previous significance in dr who? thanks!
Rassillon! - significance?
excellent - thanks oreo - i guess rasillon brought his key along (glove)!
i have vague memories as a young child of the adventure with the 5 doctors and remember spooky music and a desert wasteland planet as jon pertwee and sarah tried to find a way into rasillon's tower..cool!
i have vague memories as a young child of the adventure with the 5 doctors and remember spooky music and a desert wasteland planet as jon pertwee and sarah tried to find a way into rasillon's tower..cool!
So when the timelords were up a certain creek with out a certain propellent their course of action is to resurrect one of their historical figures then...........regardless of whether or not that person is a megalomaniac.
If that was us we'd probably bring back Hitler.
If that was us we'd probably bring back Hitler.
I'm glad that he didn't look like Old King Cole like he did in The Five Doctors.
The thing that I liked most was it kind of links in with Rememberance of the Daleks.
The Doctor (McCoy) is sitting on the stairs taalking to Ace about The Timelords. He talks about the past and Rassilon and it's kind of hinted that when The Timelords and particularly Rassilon started to build their powers (for want of a better word) to travel through time he was there involved with it. Ace then says. Doctor..who are you?
The thing that I liked most was it kind of links in with Rememberance of the Daleks.
The Doctor (McCoy) is sitting on the stairs taalking to Ace about The Timelords. He talks about the past and Rassilon and it's kind of hinted that when The Timelords and particularly Rassilon started to build their powers (for want of a better word) to travel through time he was there involved with it. Ace then says. Doctor..who are you?
I thought this was really typical of the new series. Whilst the Rassilon reference would have been great normally as huge nod to the old school who fans - the way it was handled was a complete own goal.
Yes the current production team bought the name Rassilon back but at the same time seemed to forget he was dead - not little dead like the master, or the daleks etc but proper proper dead.
Unless you prescribe to theory that he was calling the currently convientently nameless High President Rassilon as a reference to his megalomaniacal tendencies.
I'd love to prescribe to the latter theory but after seeing how the sonic screwdriver has effectivly evolved into some sort of EMP pulse weapon which can shut ships in the blink of an eye I'm afraid I have to think they got it very, very wrong.
Yes the current production team bought the name Rassilon back but at the same time seemed to forget he was dead - not little dead like the master, or the daleks etc but proper proper dead.
Unless you prescribe to theory that he was calling the currently convientently nameless High President Rassilon as a reference to his megalomaniacal tendencies.
I'd love to prescribe to the latter theory but after seeing how the sonic screwdriver has effectivly evolved into some sort of EMP pulse weapon which can shut ships in the blink of an eye I'm afraid I have to think they got it very, very wrong.
I thought it was just RTD having a private laugh because he knew it would wind up die hard DW historians on the forums who knew the name and that Rassilon was already dead.
Originally Posted by taliesin:
“So when the timelords were up a certain creek with out a certain propellent their course of action is to resurrect one of their historical figures then...........regardless of whether or not that person is a megalomaniac.
.”
“So when the timelords were up a certain creek with out a certain propellent their course of action is to resurrect one of their historical figures then...........regardless of whether or not that person is a megalomaniac.
.”
they were desperate, so wouldnt surprise me, that will probably turn out to be the explanation i bet
Originally Posted by cyski:
“I thought this was really typical of the new series. Whilst the Rassilon reference would have been great normally as huge nod to the old school who fans - the way it was handled was a complete own goal.
Yes the current production team bought the name Rassilon back but at the same time seemed to forget he was dead - not little dead like the master, or the daleks etc but proper proper dead.
Unless you prescribe to theory that he was calling the currently convientently nameless High President Rassilon as a reference to his megalomaniacal tendencies.
I'd love to prescribe to the latter theory but after seeing how the sonic screwdriver has effectivly evolved into some sort of EMP pulse weapon which can shut ships in the blink of an eye I'm afraid I have to think they got it very, very wrong.”
“I thought this was really typical of the new series. Whilst the Rassilon reference would have been great normally as huge nod to the old school who fans - the way it was handled was a complete own goal.
Yes the current production team bought the name Rassilon back but at the same time seemed to forget he was dead - not little dead like the master, or the daleks etc but proper proper dead.
Unless you prescribe to theory that he was calling the currently convientently nameless High President Rassilon as a reference to his megalomaniacal tendencies.
I'd love to prescribe to the latter theory but after seeing how the sonic screwdriver has effectivly evolved into some sort of EMP pulse weapon which can shut ships in the blink of an eye I'm afraid I have to think they got it very, very wrong.”
Originally Posted by Chet_Dyson:
“I thought it was just RTD having a private laugh because he knew it would wind up die hard DW historians on the forums who knew the name and that Rassilon was already dead.”
“I thought it was just RTD having a private laugh because he knew it would wind up die hard DW historians on the forums who knew the name and that Rassilon was already dead.”
Rassillon wasn't dead, though. The Five Doctors explicitly stated that he became immortal and was then locked in 'eternal sleep' in the tower. He even showed up at the end. And more recently, he was revived in the Big Finish audio stories. There is no contradiction here of anything previously established.
Originally Posted by tingramretro:
“Rassillon wasn't dead, though. The Five Doctors explicitly stated that he became immortal and was then locked in 'eternal sleep' in the tower. He even showed up at the end. And more recently, he was revived in the Big Finish audio stories. There is no contradiction here of anything previously established.”
“Rassillon wasn't dead, though. The Five Doctors explicitly stated that he became immortal and was then locked in 'eternal sleep' in the tower. He even showed up at the end. And more recently, he was revived in the Big Finish audio stories. There is no contradiction here of anything previously established.”
That's what came to mind for me. I assumed he had been resurrected somehow, but recalled the end of the Five Doctors. At the end of the day there is so much we don't know about the Time War, we have no idea how Rassillon came back into Time Lord society, so I have no problem with RTD pulling that one out of the hat.
I liked the fact the Time Lords were bad too. Finally we know why The Doctor had to end the war, and it was great to see The Master realise what he had done, that he had been a pawn in their game.
The only thing I'm a bit sad about is after five years of waiting the Time Lords have returned and gone again and still don't exist in linear time. But I guess if the Time Lords from the past found away of making it to the future once, they can do it again assuming the prophet can still see the future.
Originally Posted by Listentome:
“That's what came to mind for me. I assumed he had been resurrected somehow, but recalled the end of the Five Doctors. At the end of the day there is so much we don't know about the Time War, we have no idea how Rassillon came back into Time Lord society, so I have no problem with RTD pulling that one out of the hat.
I liked the fact the Time Lords were bad too. Finally we know why The Doctor had to end the war, and it was great to see The Master realise what he had done, that he had been a pawn in their game.
The only thing I'm a bit sad about is after five years of waiting the Time Lords have returned and gone again and still don't exist in linear time. But I guess if the Time Lords from the past found away of making it to the future once, they can do it again assuming the prophet can still see the future.”
“That's what came to mind for me. I assumed he had been resurrected somehow, but recalled the end of the Five Doctors. At the end of the day there is so much we don't know about the Time War, we have no idea how Rassillon came back into Time Lord society, so I have no problem with RTD pulling that one out of the hat.
I liked the fact the Time Lords were bad too. Finally we know why The Doctor had to end the war, and it was great to see The Master realise what he had done, that he had been a pawn in their game.
The only thing I'm a bit sad about is after five years of waiting the Time Lords have returned and gone again and still don't exist in linear time. But I guess if the Time Lords from the past found away of making it to the future once, they can do it again assuming the prophet can still see the future.”
I wondered if I'd heard the Rassillon name-check right as it was so understated, I mean the chap's responsible for just about everything that made Gallifrey what it became and I thought he was safely sleeping away immortality in his tomb after the Five Doctors, did he come back? Or did Daltons Timelord meglomaniac take his name to wind up the rest of them?
Originally Posted by Talma:
“I wondered if I'd heard the Rassillon name-check right as it was so understated, I mean the chap's responsible for just about everything that made Gallifrey what it became and I thought he was safely sleeping away immortality in his tomb after the Five Doctors, did he come back? Or did Daltons Timelord meglomaniac take his name to wind up the rest of them?”
“I wondered if I'd heard the Rassillon name-check right as it was so understated, I mean the chap's responsible for just about everything that made Gallifrey what it became and I thought he was safely sleeping away immortality in his tomb after the Five Doctors, did he come back? Or did Daltons Timelord meglomaniac take his name to wind up the rest of them?”
Personally I think Dalton's Time Lord is simply the actual Rassillon. The Master was dead, but the Time Lords resurrected that nutter for the Time War, so why wouldn't they wake Rassillon (meglomaniac, but still greatest Gallifreyan to ever live) and regenerate him to help them in the war?
I've never really wanted to see a Time War story as I think the mystery surrounding it is interesting. However, I would now like to see some elements of it, like how Rassillon came back into the picture.
The second Doctor in The Five Doctors states that Rassilon may not be dead but may actually be sleeping. And then Rassilon himself appears at the end of The Five Doctors (in a kind of spirit form).
I have no problem with Rassilon appearing last night. Doesn't contradict anything.
The Glove Of Rassilon is just another ornament for his collection: The Sash Of Rassilon, The Harp Of Rassilon, The Great Key Of Rassilon, The Coronet Of Rassilon, etc etc
I have no problem with Rassilon appearing last night. Doesn't contradict anything.
The Glove Of Rassilon is just another ornament for his collection: The Sash Of Rassilon, The Harp Of Rassilon, The Great Key Of Rassilon, The Coronet Of Rassilon, etc etc
Agreed. I joked that the glove might be The Glove of Rassilon, then when he had the staff with the diamond in I half expected the Master to reveal it as The Jewel of Rassilon too! Bizarelly, both could have been called as such by the reveal.
Originally Posted by taliesin:
“If that was us we'd probably bring back Hitler.”
“If that was us we'd probably bring back Hitler.”
Glad I'm not the only one who thought of the H-word. Now, if you were scripting and wanted some word for a liberal-minded Timelord to use to insult a tyrannical leader, you might use the R-word, regardless of their title or chosen name. Just like we would accuse an earthly megalomaniac of acting like Hitler. For Timelords, Rassillon carries overtones of tyranny and madness. (I'm not sure they'd actually recognise megalomania since all Timelord egos are whopping...)
Having thought of that, you'd chuckle at the thought of the fans wrestling with it!! But, as someone else pointed out, leave it very understated so that only fans would notice (or care). RTD playing games.
....
Having said that, I do think the story nicely created an atmosphere of desperation during the last days of Gallifrey, with the Council unleashing ever greater horrors and superweapons in the name of survival. I think RTD would have enough empathy with fandom to somehow deal with the assumption that Romana 'ought' to have been President.
He might easily have had Dalton as the Chancellor, overruling Romana during wartime, which would have worked out, but he didn't do that.
Instead it does seem possible that the Council could have released/restored the real Rassillon, who would of course displace Romana as President. (Romana might still retain her seat on the Council as a dissenter, which might mean she was zapped onscreen, or ... link to the face-hiding (time)lady in white ... or maybe she was just absent, missing in action perhaps, and someone had to fill the post of President)
RTD has just left it open for his successors.
